Using the Bible to defend (or convict) two men of raping 13 year old relative

[Eloy]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

 

[buckeye45_73]

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

 

[Eloy]

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

The holocaust was not the same as killing a murderer or rapist in any universe

 

[emilynghiem]

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

Because if people AGREE to it as justice, as even Roof has not contested his fate,
then we agree it is justice not murder.

The difference between sex and rape is consent, vs. coercion against that person's will.
The difference between stealing and borrowing is consent or advance agreement to give or lend.

Where there isn't mutual consent
that's where it is CONTESTED if due process was followed
or if justice was served or not.

If we really respect justice, we'd enforce standards based on consent
instead of political traditions culture and process that rewards bullying by coercion or exclusion.
That's what we use now, until more people in society are educated and experienced enough
in how democratic due process works to facilitate negotiations and policies based on conflict resolution and consensus between parties.

Much of what we witness now is part of the learning curve
of finding out what works and what fails. We have ways to go,
but human nature is driven by conscience to seek truth and justice to find peace and security.
By trial and error, process of elimination, and desire for stability and satisfaction
and to avoid suffering from conflicts and oppression, we will slowly but surely arrive
at spiritual and social maturity where we realize universal justice and peace.

our human will and drive will not stop until we see an end to the causes of
social ills, wrongs and suffering that we by conscience cannot tolerate.

 

[emilynghiem]

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

The holocaust was not the same as killing a murderer or rapist in any universe

Dear buckeye45_73

that's like saying the world's oceans are not the same as a drop of water in a bucket.
True, but the oceans are filled with water, and water is made of the same
molecules of "H20" that collectively become the larger water supply.

The same denial of humanity that allowed the Holocaust to be waged, and
also hidden from those who didn't know the extent it had escalated,
occurs in the act of murder, rape or other crime against another person
who isn't being treated as equally human or valued as the perpetrator.

Somehow they justify in their minds that they are owed this.

Neither individual or collective crimes can occur if we respect
the CONSENT of the other person equally as our own consent.

So this Golden rule gets twisted in the selfish mind and ego of human beings.
Instead of treating others how we believe we should be treated,
we treat others how we think THEY should be treated.
Thus humanity suffers a vicious cycle of retribution,
projecting our beliefs of justice on others in ways we'd defend ourselves
if others did that to us!

 

[OnePercenter]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

Religion is a form of mental illness....

 

[baileyn45]

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

I see that as arguing apples and oranges. We're not talking about the collective murder of people because of their ethnic or religious identity. We're talking about 2 subhuman animals with a child chained in a basement for their sexual gratification. There comes a time when people forfeit their rites as a human being, doing that to a child is one of those times.

Keep in mind I'm not calling for their execution, although I would have no problem with it. I'm just hoping they spend the rest of their miserable lives in a cage being abused the same way they abused that child. Hopefully the other inmates will find out who they are, such people are not popular even in prison.

 

[OnePercenter]

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

I see that as arguing apples and oranges. We're not talking about the collective murder of people because of their ethnic or religious identity. We're talking about 2 subhuman animals with a child chained in a basement for their sexual gratification. There comes a time when people forfeit their rites as a human being, doing that to a child is one of those times.

Keep in mind I'm not calling for their execution, although I would have no problem with it. I'm just hoping they spend the rest of their miserable lives in a cage being abused the same way they abused that child. Hopefully the other inmates will find out who they are, such people are not popular even in prison.

Two sub-Humans who used religion as a justification for their actions. Think 9/11. Kill them!

 

[buckeye45_73]

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

The holocaust was not the same as killing a murderer or rapist in any universe

Dear buckeye45_73

that's like saying the world's oceans are not the same as a drop of water in a bucket.
True, but the oceans are filled with water, and water is made of the same
molecules of "H20" that collectively become the larger water supply.

The same denial of humanity that allowed the Holocaust to be waged, and
also hidden from those who didn't know the extent it had escalated,
occurs in the act of murder, rape or other crime against another person
who isn't being treated as equally human or valued as the perpetrator.

Somehow they justify in their minds that they are owed this.

Neither individual or collective crimes can occur if we respect
the CONSENT of the other person equally as our own consent.

So this Golden rule gets twisted in the selfish mind and ego of human beings.
Instead of treating others how we believe we should be treated,
we treat others how we think THEY should be treated.
Thus humanity suffers a vicious cycle of retribution,
projecting our beliefs of justice on others in ways we'd defend ourselves
if others did that to us!

The difference is the victims did nothing to deserve their fate.

I agree the Nazis should be hanged, they had a chance and the did evil, the sam.witha murderer. I do not seenthem.as people after that is committed.

I don't see.how anyone can justify murder or rape.

Killing a murder is not the same as a murderer killing an inmocent victum.thats where you guys get crazy.

The murderer is telling us how he wants to be treated by their actions, so.we should oblige that.

 

[baileyn45]

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

I see that as arguing apples and oranges. We're not talking about the collective murder of people because of their ethnic or religious identity. We're talking about 2 subhuman animals with a child chained in a basement for their sexual gratification. There comes a time when people forfeit their rites as a human being, doing that to a child is one of those times.

Keep in mind I'm not calling for their execution, although I would have no problem with it. I'm just hoping they spend the rest of their miserable lives in a cage being abused the same way they abused that child. Hopefully the other inmates will find out who they are, such people are not popular even in prison.

Two sub-Humans who used religion as a justification for their actions. Think 9/11. Kill them!

Can you imagine the twisted logic that must be at play? I almost would want to hear it just for the entertainment value, almost. I couldn't sit in the same room as them, I'd end up in jail.

 

[Eloy]

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

The holocaust was not the same as killing a murderer or rapist in any universe

Both the Final Solution and execution by a state in the USA are identical insofar as they are both sanctioned by the state. That the state allows it is no defense for taking a human life.

 

[Eloy]

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Can you define murder?
Killing people like Dylan roof is not murder, it's justice.
And the EU is wrong to have that point.of view, which is why Europe is becoming a Muslim hell hole.

The Nazis reasoned that the murder of Jews was not murder because it was lawful according to the laws of the Third Reich.
The Muslim population of Europe is about 6%.

I see that as arguing apples and oranges. We're not talking about the collective murder of people because of their ethnic or religious identity. We're talking about 2 subhuman animals with a child chained in a basement for their sexual gratification. There comes a time when people forfeit their rites as a human being, doing that to a child is one of those times.

Keep in mind I'm not calling for their execution, although I would have no problem with it. I'm just hoping they spend the rest of their miserable lives in a cage being abused the same way they abused that child. Hopefully the other inmates will find out who they are, such people are not popular even in prison.

The Nazis thought as you do except that they considered Jews to be sub-human animals.

 

[baileyn45]

I find that to be an absurd comparison. The Jews were targeted for whom they were not what they did.

I shudder to think how quickly these two would be back on the streets in Europe. The maniac that killed 77 in Norway got 21 years? Life is cheap in Norway.

 

[Eloy]

I find that to be an absurd comparison. The Jews were targeted for whom they were not what they did.

I shudder to think how quickly these two would be back on the streets in Europe. The maniac that killed 77 in Norway got 21 years? Life is cheap in Norway.

The Nazis believed it was the Jews who surrendered in the First World War and started the Second.

 

[baileyn45]

I find that to be an absurd comparison. The Jews were targeted for whom they were not what they did.

I shudder to think how quickly these two would be back on the streets in Europe. The maniac that killed 77 in Norway got 21 years? Life is cheap in Norway.

The Nazis believed it was the Jews who surrendered in the First World War and started the Second.

Point? You're still talking about collective punishment, even if it were true that the Jews surrendered, that wasn't Anne Frank's fault. These two pieces of trash are responsible for their own actions and should never breathe free air again.

 

[Eloy]

I find that to be an absurd comparison. The Jews were targeted for whom they were not what they did.

I shudder to think how quickly these two would be back on the streets in Europe. The maniac that killed 77 in Norway got 21 years? Life is cheap in Norway.

The Nazis believed it was the Jews who surrendered in the First World War and started the Second.

Point? You're still talking about collective punishment, even if it were true that the Jews surrendered, that wasn't Anne Frank's fault. These two pieces of trash are responsible for their own actions and should never breathe free air again.

The point I made is that a state can murder even when the killing is legal.

 

[baileyn45]

I find that to be an absurd comparison. The Jews were targeted for whom they were not what they did.

I shudder to think how quickly these two would be back on the streets in Europe. The maniac that killed 77 in Norway got 21 years? Life is cheap in Norway.

The Nazis believed it was the Jews who surrendered in the First World War and started the Second.

Point? You're still talking about collective punishment, even if it were true that the Jews surrendered, that wasn't Anne Frank's fault. These two pieces of trash are responsible for their own actions and should never breathe free air again.

The point I made is that a state can murder even when the killing is legal.

I see a difference between murder and executions. Murder is taking the life of some one that didn't deserve it. To be executed in the US you had to work very, very hard to get there.

 

[Eloy]

I find that to be an absurd comparison. The Jews were targeted for whom they were not what they did.

I shudder to think how quickly these two would be back on the streets in Europe. The maniac that killed 77 in Norway got 21 years? Life is cheap in Norway.

The Nazis believed it was the Jews who surrendered in the First World War and started the Second.

Point? You're still talking about collective punishment, even if it were true that the Jews surrendered, that wasn't Anne Frank's fault. These two pieces of trash are responsible for their own actions and should never breathe free air again.

The point I made is that a state can murder even when the killing is legal.

I see a difference between murder and executions. Murder is taking the life of some one that didn't deserve it. To be executed in the US you had to work very, very hard to get there.

Innocent people have been executed in the USA.

 

[ding]

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

Murder, even by the state, is forbidden in the European Union.

Nothing is forbidden in Europe. They are twisted human beings.