Use of racial covenants in Monroe County property deeds was pervasive and encouraged

Disir

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The existence of these covenants is not news, but a report published Tuesday provides far greater detail than was previously known regarding the prevalence of the clauses.

It shows, for example, that Monroe County, the town of Gates and the Gates public school district all signed such clauses around 1940.

Private actors who agreed not to sell property to Black people include the Eastman Kodak Co., the Roman Catholic Diocese of Rochester and Wegmans co-founder Walter Wegman.

"The history of racial covenants helps counter a long-taught assumption that racial segregation is due to 'natural' forces like the housing market or personal preferences," the introduction to the report reads. "The facts in this guide are proof of what Black and Brown communities have long known: that segregation in Monroe County is driven by White supremacy — a system built specifically to increase the dignity, power, and wealth of White people by taking those things from Black and Brown people."


This is the report and I'm still reading through it.

I have some problems with this article. I want to point that out. I have never, ever, ever come across anything that remotely suggested there were no racial covenants. Starting out of the gate with a fictitious argument is not helpful. I have a problem with this as well: "Anyone living in Monroe County in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s could have found a neighborhood to live without a covenant," he said. "They also could have fought the covenant. … People had choices whether or not to sign onto these things." I looked up one of the authors of the report and the above comment: Conor Dwyer Reynolds - Yale Law School

I don't buy that comment unless you were white and your family had been born in the US, could read and write English and could pick and choose where to live. I know that my family arrived in 1917. My great grandmother never spoke English. I think my great grandfather learned enough to get by. She went to Mass, the markets, and the occasional outing to another relative's home. She raised 9 children. Everyone that lived on the block was from Abbruzzo. You didn't marry out of your region. Other regions may be located on the next block.

My thing is that I'm not sure how much actual history that many of these people know. There had to be more groups than Italians in the area that didn't speak English, etc. Secondly, the whole ZOMG there were clauses and we have proof is definitely off putting. I mean, how did you not know? It's like dealing with the never ending noobs who just picked up a book and are outraged.
 

Damaged Eagle

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Absolutely. Segregating in housing existed through the 1970s elsewhere de facto. However, my generation (and the following generations) didn't see that by the time that we were able to participate in the adult world. In fact, my generation was the first that didn't have any anti-miscegenation laws. Hell, it's my generation that didn't have any limitations due to sex or race. Those battles had been fought and won by our parents and grandparents. You had limitations if you were LGBQT but in that instance the people were way ahead of the laws. My son's generation will not have known anything different than same sex marriages being legal.

I find it really hard to digest that these people have no concept of history and no concept of who held power. Mr. Reynolds appears both ignorant and arrogant and that is always a fine mix.
 

Grumblenuts

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I have some problems with this article. I want to point that out. I have never, ever, ever come across anything that remotely suggested there were no racial covenants. Starting out of the gate with a fictitious argument is not helpful.
Can you quote where the article makes such an "argument" or are you just tilting at windmills of your own creation here?
I have a problem with this as well: "Anyone living in Monroe County in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s could have found a neighborhood to live without a covenant," he said. "They also could have fought the covenant. … People had choices whether or not to sign onto these things."
Agreed. Saying "Anyone" there was sloppy and insensitive.
 

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I guess one relevant question is, were these covenants prevalent enough to effectively prevent a middle-class Black family from finding a suitable home in an area like what they aspired to? Or was it a case of, Well, you can live in THESE counties without restriction, but in that one county you are excluded.

Certainly, such provisions are abhorrent, but how many Black people today are disadvantaged by those restrictions of yesteryear? What percentage of the Negro population in, say, 1935-1950 was in a position to move to "Monroe County" but couldn't do so?

The fact is that the BEST we can do today is to identify instances and policies of racial discrimination and root them out. Raising these historical atrocities serves no purpose other than to promote resentment, envy, and excuse the failure of contemporary Blacks (and others) to avail themselves to the opportunities that exist today.

I would be embarrassed at the discrimination of my ancestors, but they didn't have a pot to piss in, and were powerless to effectively discriminate against anyone.

P.S. I would want to see the document whereby the Roman Catholic Diocese signed on to these covenants. Without documents, I call bullshit.
 
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Disir

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I have some problems with this article. I want to point that out. I have never, ever, ever come across anything that remotely suggested there were no racial covenants. Starting out of the gate with a fictitious argument is not helpful.
Can you quote where the article makes such an "argument" or are you just tilting at windmills of your own creation here?
I have a problem with this as well: "Anyone living in Monroe County in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s could have found a neighborhood to live without a covenant," he said. "They also could have fought the covenant. … People had choices whether or not to sign onto these things."
Agreed. Saying "Anyone" there was sloppy and insensitive.
It's the long taught assumptions in the beginning of the report and quoted in the article. I should have been more clear.
 
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Marion Morrison

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Tell you what, my old neighborhood went to hell once the blacks started moving in.
It got so bad the city put up highway barriers blocking off 4/5 of the streets.
We left.
It was quick, too. 3-4 years.
 
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Absolutely. Segregating in housing existed through the 1970s elsewhere de facto. However, my generation (and the following generations) didn't see that by the time that we were able to participate in the adult world. In fact, my generation was the first that didn't have any anti-miscegenation laws. Hell, it's my generation that didn't have any limitations due to sex or race. Those battles had been fought and won by our parents and grandparents. You had limitations if you were LGBQT but in that instance the people were way ahead of the laws. My son's generation will not have known anything different than same sex marriages being legal.

I find it really hard to digest that these people have no concept of history and no concept of who held power. Mr. Reynolds appears both ignorant and arrogant and that is always a fine mix.
They also have no concept of the sensibilities of the times....Acting as though the culture of the times should have just realized out of the blue that the wokey-woke culture of the 2020s is where it's at, and snapped into the future.
 
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Well, this is what I found on the African American Great Migration and Rochester.

I have no idea if my great grandparents were racist but if they couldn't manage to talk to anyone outside of the region they were from (or Irish--I know, right?) then there is a pretty damn good possibility.

I'm also not sure what level of importance the 1920s to 1940s the racial covenants have today. The recommendations were to redact the covenants and to teach about this in school..................which is where many of us learned about the racial covenants to freakin' begin with.
 

Damaged Eagle

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Absolutely. Segregating in housing existed through the 1970s elsewhere de facto. However, my generation (and the following generations) didn't see that by the time that we were able to participate in the adult world. In fact, my generation was the first that didn't have any anti-miscegenation laws. Hell, it's my generation that didn't have any limitations due to sex or race. Those battles had been fought and won by our parents and grandparents. You had limitations if you were LGBQT but in that instance the people were way ahead of the laws. My son's generation will not have known anything different than same sex marriages being legal.

I find it really hard to digest that these people have no concept of history and no concept of who held power. Mr. Reynolds appears both ignorant and arrogant and that is always a fine mix.
1596681707438.png


So you're saying it's just me when someone acts like I'm something they scrapped off the bottom of their shoes or like I'm wearing the wrong underarm deodorant.

*****SMILE*****


:)
 
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Disir

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Absolutely. Segregating in housing existed through the 1970s elsewhere de facto. However, my generation (and the following generations) didn't see that by the time that we were able to participate in the adult world. In fact, my generation was the first that didn't have any anti-miscegenation laws. Hell, it's my generation that didn't have any limitations due to sex or race. Those battles had been fought and won by our parents and grandparents. You had limitations if you were LGBQT but in that instance the people were way ahead of the laws. My son's generation will not have known anything different than same sex marriages being legal.

I find it really hard to digest that these people have no concept of history and no concept of who held power. Mr. Reynolds appears both ignorant and arrogant and that is always a fine mix.
View attachment 371706

So you're saying it's just me when someone acts like I'm something they scrapped off the bottom of their shoes or like I'm wearing the wrong underarm deodorant.

*****SMILE*****


:)
Maybe.............? This feels like a trick question. There is no shortage of doody heads and someone can be a doody head and it has nothing to do with you.

Goodnight, John boy. :sleep:
 

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Well, this is what I found on the African American Great Migration and Rochester.

I have no idea if my great grandparents were racist but if they couldn't manage to talk to anyone outside of the region they were from (or Irish--I know, right?) then there is a pretty damn good possibility.

I'm also not sure what level of importance the 1920s to 1940s the racial covenants have today. The recommendations were to redact the covenants and to teach about this in school..................which is where many of us learned about the racial covenants to freakin' begin with.
" I'm also not sure what level of importance the 1920s to 1940s the racial covenants have today. "

Think in terms of wealth and inheritance. For 99% of Americans their wealth is in home ownership.
 

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