USA - Divide & Conquer

[InfiniteSpirit]

hmm .. and I am not talking about other nations. I am talking about right here at home. Republicans, Democrats, Neocons, Liberals .. All are but labels upon us. We are truly infinite beings behind eyes that have a tough time seeing past the illusion and consequently take them as real. But wait, what does this have to do about politics .. well the politicians know this to be true and divide us and keep us quarreling so that they can push any agenda through that they want. Bush is a puppet, and the United States of Advertising is now a country of fear - fear of Big Brother and fear of Little Brother - those "normal, average" people who run around telling people what true freedom is and how others should lead their lives. Yeah I hear you - keep spouting off all these chants of fighting for FREEDOM, FREEDOM, FREEDOM - and then go pass the Patriot Act, ban gay marriage, end women's choice, etc etc etc which take away that which you just yelled about till your face was red. True freedom is the freedom to do anything as long as it doesn't impose upon others that right.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Not a bad start infinite. welcome to the boards.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by InfiniteSpirit
True freedom is the freedom to do anything as long as it doesn't impose upon others that right.

Patriot Act - I'm not worried too much for the terrorists losing their freedom. I still don't see the average citizen losing any freedoms here at all.

ban gay marriage - Many believe, as do I, that this is harmful to society. It degrades and lessens heterosexual marriage. Gay's have the very freedoms of heterosexuals - to marry someone of the opposite sex.

end women's choice - And what about the freedom of the child? Women have the freedom to get pregnant, with that comes responsibility.

 

[jimnyc]

BTW, as DK stated, welcome to the board.

 

[winston churchi]

This country or the world for that matter should never be made of one mind that all agree. Everyone is different and that is what makes the world go around.
You say Bush is a Puppet, of course he is, just as any president is really. Bush/Clinton/Kennedy, you name them all. They don't make a dec. without the backup of the senate and congress...They are the true choice makers here..so it makes no difference who holds office in that reguard.

Labeling. Everyone is labeled in some for or another. Your Chinese, your black, your poor, your white trash...a way of life.

Freedom. Ask anyone and their idea of freedom is different. To me, freedom is not having the federal government in charge of every aspect of your life. Freedom is to be able to make your own mistakes and pay for them yourself.

People need to be different, what a boring as hell world this would be if everyone thought like you...or me....

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jimnyc

ban gay marriage - Many believe, as do I, that this is harmful to society. It degrades and lessens heterosexual marriage.

I, personally, don't see how gays and lesbians could possibly screw it up anymore than we hetero's already have.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I would actually prefer the whole world be of one mind when it's comes to freedom and individual rights. The arguments against individual rights come from those who are jealous and seek power through using government to redistribute wealth, according their selfish social agenda. Libs fear a meritocracy.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I, personally, don't see how gays and lesbians could possibly screw it up anymore than we hetero's already have.

Just because marriage already has it's faults doesn't mean adding fuel to the fire is harmless. That's like saying "Our government is already screwed up, voting for Donald Duck can't be any worse".

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Just because marriage already has it's faults doesn't mean adding fuel to the fire is harmless. That's like saying "Our government is already screwed up, voting for Donald Duck can't be any worse".

Scrooge McDuck is the Ben Stein of the cartoon world.

 

[InfiniteSpirit]

Hmm, interesting response jimnyc .. and yes I know the meaning of "freedom" is different for everyone, but what word doesn't have a different meaning for everyone. The point is I refuse to be part of a country where the meaning of freedom has been skewed to "you are free to do what we say" end of the spectrum. As long as I am not treading on other people's natural human rights (life, liberty, pursut of happiness), I should be free to do as I please..

Gay Marriage - Like DKSuddeth said, the state of hetero marriage is pretty screwed up. This "sacred promise" has lost all true meaning and turned into ceremonial tradition, a best. If thats where's its heading - fine! Cultural traditions/expressions/etc are just as prone to evolution as anything else. Why not let gays have the right to divorce to?

Abortion - Is not going to end. Whether its legal or girls have to run around looking for the nearest coat hanger (which they will do, which they do already!), abortion will not end. I believe its a matter of choice, a matter of conscience. If you believe they will go to hell for their actions, fine; if you believe it is that much of a moral hot point, fine - let them make that choice! And if you think you are doing God's work by fighting this abortion thing - why not go out and adopt one of the thousands of babies that dies everyday due to having no home of their own.

Patriot Act - I've heard that argument a lot - if you're not a terrorist there's no need to fear. And maybe you're right, which you're not - this is just another step closer for the government (remember What About Bob - BABY STEPS!), except it does limit our freedoms and we should resist anything that does. There will always be terrorist acts (a true terrorist act is immediate, unidentifiably). Any "war on terrorism" is an effort that will go to no ends to stop personal freedom - as thats truthfully the power of "terrorism" - the ability of humans to find a way to defy conventional power structure.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by InfiniteSpirit
Gay Marriage - Like DKSuddeth said, the state of hetero marriage is pretty screwed up. This "sacred promise" has lost all true meaning and turned into ceremonial tradition, a best. If thats where's its heading - fine! Cultural traditions/expressions/etc are just as prone to evolution as anything else. Why not let gays have the right to divorce to?

Because I don't think gays should be getting married in the first place. I've already addressed the issue of the current marriage problems.

Abortion - Is not going to end. Whether its legal or girls have to run around looking for the nearest coat hanger (which they will do, which they do already!), abortion will not end. I believe its a matter of choice, a matter of conscience. If you believe they will go to hell for their actions, fine; if you believe it is that much of a moral hot point, fine - let them make that choice! And if you think you are doing God's work by fighting this abortion thing - why not go out and adopt one of the thousands of babies that dies everyday due to having no home of their own.

I don't need to adopt a baby to make things right. How about people just start being more responsible for their actions?

Patriot Act - I've heard that argument a lot - if you're not a terrorist there's no need to fear. And maybe you're right, which you're not - this is just another step closer for the government (remember What About Bob - BABY STEPS!), except it does limit our freedoms and we should resist anything that does. There will always be terrorist acts (a true terrorist act is immediate, unidentifiably). Any "war on terrorism" is an effort that will go to no ends to stop personal freedom - as thats truthfully the power of "terrorism" - the ability of humans to find a way to defy conventional power structure.

What specific freedoms have you lost?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by InfiniteSpirit
hmm .. and I am not talking about other nations. I am talking about right here at home. Republicans, Democrats, Neocons, Liberals .. All are but labels upon us. We are truly infinite beings behind eyes that have a tough time seeing past the illusion and consequently take them as real. But wait, what does this have to do about politics .. well the politicians know this to be true and divide us and keep us quarreling so that they can push any agenda through that they want. Bush is a puppet, and the United States of Advertising is now a country of fear - fear of Big Brother and fear of Little Brother - those "normal, average" people who run around telling people what true freedom is and how others should lead their lives. Yeah I hear you - keep spouting off all these chants of fighting for FREEDOM, FREEDOM, FREEDOM - and then go pass the Patriot Act, ban gay marriage, end women's choice, etc etc etc which take away that which you just yelled about till your face was red. True freedom is the freedom to do anything as long as it doesn't impose upon others that right.

This sentiment is quite welcome. Very nice.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by InfiniteSpirit
Hmm, interesting response jimnyc .. and yes I know the meaning of "freedom" is different for everyone, but what word doesn't have a different meaning for everyone. The point is I refuse to be part of a country where the meaning of freedom has been skewed to "you are free to do what we say" end of the spectrum. As long as I am not treading on other people's natural human rights (life, liberty, pursut of happiness), I should be free to do as I please..

Would you like to be free to surrender 70% of your income to the gov. Like the carter years?

Gay Marriage - Like DKSuddeth said, the state of hetero marriage is pretty screwed up. This "sacred promise" has lost all true meaning and turned into ceremonial tradition, a best. If thats where's its heading - fine! Cultural traditions/expressions/etc are just as prone to evolution as anything else. Why not let gays have the right to divorce to?

I actually defend gays on this site. But your attitude makes no sense. If marriages are a debased and worthless institution why do gays want to get married? Your snide dismissal of one of society's most important institutions is quite disgusting.

Abortion - Is not going to end. Whether its legal or girls have to run around looking for the nearest coat hanger (which they will do, which they do already!), abortion will not end. I believe its a matter of choice, a matter of conscience. If you believe they will go to hell for their actions, fine; if you believe it is that much of a moral hot point, fine - let them make that choice! And if you think you are doing God's work by fighting this abortion thing - why not go out and adopt one of the thousands of babies that dies everyday due to having no home of their own.

Patriot Act - I've heard that argument a lot - if you're not a terrorist there's no need to fear. And maybe you're right, which you're not - this is just another step closer for the government (remember What About Bob - BABY STEPS!), except it does limit our freedoms and we should resist anything that does. There will always be terrorist acts (a true terrorist act is immediate, unidentifiably). Any "war on terrorism" is an effort that will go to no ends to stop personal freedom - as thats truthfully the power of "terrorism" - the ability of humans to find a way to defy conventional power structure.

Funny, libs caring about personal freedom. This only happens when republicans are in power. Individual rights mean nothing when it comes to instituting their leftist agenda. Republicans are trying to deter terrorism and it's a war on individual liberty. What a perfect somersault of logic. 10.0 you stuck the landing.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by InfiniteSpirit
Abortion - Is not going to end. Whether its legal or girls have to run around looking for the nearest coat hanger (which they will do, which they do already!), abortion will not end. I believe its a matter of choice, a matter of conscience. If you believe they will go to hell for their actions, fine; if you believe it is that much of a moral hot point, fine - let them make that choice! And if you think you are doing God's work by fighting this abortion thing - why not go out and adopt one of the thousands of babies that dies everyday due to having no home of their own.

Murder and rape arent going to end even though they are Illegal. Should we just legalize them all? do away with law completely and watch people go nuts. Entire post is nothing but a contradiction. In the beginning you said:

As long as I am not treading on other people's natural human rights (life, liberty, pursut of happiness), I should be free to do as I please..

yet you support the institutional practice of killing children and argue that someone because they arent born their life is of no worth compared to a woman being irresponsible after her choices have produced consequences she didnt like. It doesnt matter that the Childs life liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been taken away from them. Abortion is one of the few things in the world worse than slavery. Atleast slaves had a chance to escape and become free or live in somewhat comfort. The child doesnt get a choice in any of it.

 

[InfiniteSpirit]

--a little questioning is all thats required--

Murder and rape arent going to end even though they are Illegal. [who said they would?] Should we just legalize them all? [i doubt going to jail dissuades a lot of would-be killers/rapists to commit their acts. if you are that sick as to take another life, i don't think you care much about the consequence anyway] do away with law completely and watch people go nuts. [who's going to "go nuts" i for one wouldn't] Entire post is nothing but a contradiction.[life is contradictory - christians killing people - its crazy] In the beginning you said:

yet you support the institutional practice of killing children [no, i support the right of other people to make that choice - its called freedom, remember] and argue that someone because they arent born their life is of no worth compared to a woman being irresponsible [don't EVER remember arguing that, but thanks for putting entirely ridiculous words in my mouth] after her choices have produced consequences she didnt like [and is she were raped? this coming from someone who probably supports the carpet bombing of another country, but i won't assume or put words in your mouth] It doesnt matter that the Childs life liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been taken away from them. Abortion is one of the few things in the world worse than slavery [hmm, thanks for the opinion, by the way thats all it is]. Atleast slaves had a chance to escape [hmm, i'd like to see some eye witness acounts of when you were in there with the slaves and know how it is to be a slave] and become free or live in somewhat comfort [are you talking of the times when good old master had his way with you or when your bak was bleeding from the whipping?]. The child doesnt get a choice in any of it. [ok, but is it a child? really? or maybe its a bunch of cells trying to multiply. where does this end? is a sperm a half baby? in the immortal words of bill hicks, i've killed entire civlizations in my underpants..]

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by InfiniteSpirit
--a little questioning is all thats required--

Murder and rape arent going to end even though they are Illegal. [who said they would?] Should we just legalize them all? [i doubt going to jail dissuades a lot of would-be killers/rapists to commit their acts. if you are that sick as to take another life, i don't think you care much about the consequence anyway] do away with law completely and watch people go nuts. [who's going to "go nuts" i for one wouldn't] Entire post is nothing but a contradiction.[life is contradictory - christians killing people - its crazy] In the beginning you said:

yet you support the institutional practice of killing children [no, i support the right of other people to make that choice - its called freedom, remember] and argue that someone because they arent born their life is of no worth compared to a woman being irresponsible [don't EVER remember arguing that, but thanks for putting entirely ridiculous words in my mouth] after her choices have produced consequences she didnt like [and is she were raped? this coming from someone who probably supports the carpet bombing of another country, but i won't assume or put words in your mouth] It doesnt matter that the Childs life liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been taken away from them. Abortion is one of the few things in the world worse than slavery [hmm, thanks for the opinion, by the way thats all it is]. Atleast slaves had a chance to escape [hmm, i'd like to see some eye witness acounts of when you were in there with the slaves and know how it is to be a slave] and become free or live in somewhat comfort [are you talking of the times when good old master had his way with you or when your bak was bleeding from the whipping?]. The child doesnt get a choice in any of it. [ok, but is it a child? really? or maybe its a bunch of cells trying to multiply. where does this end? is a sperm a half baby? in the immortal words of bill hicks, i've killed entire civlizations in my underpants..]

wow. I have to admit your posts are fun to read. Would you classify yourself as an anarchist?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
wow. I have to admit your posts are fun to read. Would you classify yourself as an anarchist?

That was actually pretty funny.

 

[InfiniteSpirit]

I hope you are truly interested cause I am about to be totally honest with you, here goes .. Lately that word has been creeping to my mind more and more as that question was asked of me a while back - at first it scared me, but after I started getting past the stereotypes - you know people wearing black throwing rocks at other people and mass chaos, I'd have to say "no", I don't think anarchy (even though it does have a completely ludicrous stereotype attached to it) is the way to go, ... ... yet. I think we as a culture have a lot of unresolved issues to deal with, but for the most part, when those are taken care of and we take the next evolutionary step, then the courts, jails and all other forms of visible authoritative control will cease on their own because we will see that they are pretty lame compared with the prisons we each erect in our own minds. But, like I said, I do not support anarchy right now. I think we need to continue to work on this democracy and see where we go..

oh yeah .. thanks for the warm greeting to this message board (forgot to say that 10 posts ago :^) )

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think it would cool if we evolved to the point of the fighting aliens in the Predator series. I think they live in anarchy, travelling around the universe independantly hunting animals and each other. Their technology was so kick ass.

 

[InfiniteSpirit]

Not exactly the response I was looking for, but yeah the Predator series was cool .. those infrared special effects for the Predator's eyes are still unmatched today .