US Senate Report Officially Blames Top Bush Officials for Torture

[del]

Christ, with you liberals interpretation of "torture", the detainee's can't even be spoken to in the wrong manner. Yet, what do you clowns say about Bush for removing maybe the worst violator of torture and murder in the world, Saddam Hussein ?

i say he isn't worth pissing on if he was on fire and we should have stayed home.

 

[driveby]

i say he isn't worth pissing on if he was on fire and we should have stayed home.

That's fine, i can respect that, just pointing out the double standard ....

 

[Caligirl]

Do we have a double standard with the dozen plus other dictators around the world? Why haven't we liberated North Korea, Iran, or Zimbabwe yet?

It's not a double standard to allow Saddam to remain in control; it's knowing when something is biting off more than you can chew. We cannot possibly police the world. Granted, most of us thought Iraq would be a cakewalk ... but those few people whose job it is to know, knew that it wouldn't be a cakewalk. And bush did not listen to them, but fired them.

 

[WillowTree]

Do we have a double standard with the dozen plus other dictators around the world? Why haven't we liberated North Korea, Iran, or Zimbabwe yet?

It's not a double standard to allow Saddam to remain in control; it's knowing when something is biting off more than you can chew. We cannot possibly police the world. Granted, most of us thought Iraq would be a cakewalk ... but those few people whose job it is to know, knew that it wouldn't be a cakewalk. And bush did not listen to them, but fired them.

I will agree with that.. It wasn't worth the cost to save the Iraqi.. but then I wonder how do we decide who is worth saving and who is not? You guys are not even willing to save your own or so it seems! I get perplexed. and cannot figure out what it would take for you guys to stand up and defend you own country,, It's great to be noble and say we won't torture anybody,, I don't like the idea of it either but I would do it in a New York Minute if it would save you and your family.. yep yep yep yep..

 

[driveby]

Do we have a double standard with the dozen plus other dictators around the world? Why haven't we liberated North Korea, Iran, or Zimbabwe yet?

It's not a double standard to allow Saddam to remain in control; it's knowing when something is biting off more than you can chew. We cannot possibly police the world. Granted, most of us thought Iraq would be a cakewalk ... but those few people whose job it is to know, knew that it wouldn't be a cakewalk. And bush did not listen to them, but fired them.

Do i really have to explain the difference between Iraq and the other nations that you listed ?

Seriously ?

 

[Skeptik]

US Senate Report Officially Blames Top Bush Officials for Torture ????

No shit.....who else would you expect a Democrate controlled Senate to blame.....

I could have told you this would be the outcome 18 months ago........

From the first link in the OP:

After an 18-month investigation, the Senate's armed services committee concluded that Rumsfeld's approval of aggressive interrogation methods in December 2002 was a direct cause of abuses that began in Guantánamo and spread to Afghanistan and Iraq. They culminated in the Abu Ghraib scandal in 2003, where Iraqi detainees were found to have been forced into naked pyramids, sexually humiliated and threatened by dogs.

The Senate armed services committee is made up of 13 Democrats and 12 Republicans.

I suppose, if they took a vote, it was 13 to 12 in favor of the report, along party lines, then you might have a point.

If not, then the "It's Democrats who hate Bush" mantra is just not supportable.

Neither is the justification of a Democratic nation that mouths advocacy for human rights torturing anyone, at any time, for any purpose. That is an absolute wrong.

 

[Alpha1]

Your people were in charge when the atrocities occurred. And you nicely laid them all on a few foot soldiers, and let the people directing these actions off free. But now people like me are in charge, and there will be some major changes.

Your damned leader let 3000 Americans die, and never even bothered to get the perpatrator of the deed. Six months after 9-11, he stated "Bin Laden is not a concern of mine". And Bin Laden is still free and alive, more than seven years later. There were warnings from the prior administration, passed off with "Clinton has a fixation with Bin Laden". There were over 50 warnings in the summer prior to 9-11, and Bush ignored all of them, went on vacation.

I am quite sure that Obama will do a better job of protecting this nation, I am quite sure that McCain would have done a better job of protecting this nation. Hell, I am even sure that Ron Paul would have done a better job than Bush at protecting this nation. All Bush has brought us in failure, shame, and death.

Writing you very own pseudo history book sonny ?

Enjoy yourself, but don't try to pass off that bullshit version of history to the rest us....we lived it...we were there...we know what the facts are....facts that go back to 1996 and Clinton's quotes about Saddam and WMD....

But you're the typical buffoon....your history comes from Bill Maher...John Stewart...etc/ and various other far left comedians....you can't seperate fact from the "news" you read and hear on Keith Obermann's show.....
you're pathetic in a way....

 

[Epsilon Delta]

From the first link in the OP:



The Senate armed services committee is made up of 13 Democrats and 12 Republicans.

I suppose, if they took a vote, it was 13 to 12 in favor of the report, along party lines, then you might have a point.

If not, then the "It's Democrats who hate Bush" mantra is just not supportable.

Neither is the justification of a Democratic nation that mouths advocacy for human rights torturing anyone, at any time, for any purpose. That is an absolute wrong.

Exactly. Actually, it was backed 17-0, with the rest abstentions. The 4 republicans who did vote for it, also backed it.


Some people here are missing a big part of the report:

Conclusion 3: The use of techniques similar to those used in SERE resistance training – such as stripping students of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, and treating them like animals – was at odds with the commitment to humane treatment of detainees in U.S. custody. Using those techniques for interrogating detainees was also inconsistent with the goal of collecting accurate intelligence information, as the purpose of SERE resistance training is to increase the ability of U.S. personnel to resist abusive interrogations and the techniques used were based, in part, on Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to elicit false confessions.

Conclusion 4: The use of techniques in interrogations derived from SERE resistance training created a serious risk of physical and psychological harm to detainees. The SERE schools employ strict controls to reduce the risk of physical and psychological harm to students during training. Those controls include medical and psychological screening for students, interventions by trained psychologists during training, and code words to ensure that students can stop the application of a technique at any time should the need arise. Those same controls are not present in real world interrogations.

Conclusion 8: Detainee abuse occurred during JPRA’s support to Special Mission Unit (SMU) Task Force (TF) interrogation operations in Iraq in September 2003. JPRA Commander Colonel Randy Moulton’s authorization of SERE instructors, who had no experience in detainee interrogations, to actively participate in Task Force interrogations using SERE resistance training techniques was a serious failure in judgment. The Special Mission Unit Task Force Commander’s failure to order that SERE resistance training techniques not be used in detainee interrogations was a serious failure in leadership that led to the abuse of detainees in Task Force custody. Iraq is a Geneva Convention theater and techniques used in SERE school are inconsistent with the obligations of U.S. personnel under the Geneva Conventions.

In short NOT ONLY were war crimes being committed, but one of the main points is that the techniques are totally ineffective in getting any real, useful information.

 

[Chris]

Exactly. Actually, it was backed 17-0, with the rest abstentions. The 4 republicans who did vote for it, also backed it.


Some people here are missing a big part of the report:



In short NOT ONLY were war crimes being committed, but one of the main points is that the techniques are totally ineffective in getting any real, useful information.

Plus, most of the foreign fighters interrogated went to Iraq to avenge the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

When we cease to live up to our ideals, we cease to be Americans.

 

[Lycurgus]

Plus, most of the foreign fighters interrogated went to Iraq to avenge the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

yeah sure they did

 

[Old Rocks]

Plus, most of the foreign fighters interrogated went to Iraq to avenge the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

When we cease to live up to our ideals, we cease to be Americans.

Chris, while I hold our treatment of the prisoners at Abu Gharib to be war crimes, most of the foriegn fighters were already there at that time. When we invaded, and disbanded the Iraqi Army, we left the borders wide open. And the Al Queda saw a natural recruiting ground. Had that organization acted in a less barborous fashion, we would be having far greater problems in Iraq. As the situation exists now, the worse thing that we could do to the Al Queda is pull out of Iraq. They are foriegners there also, and not at all well liked.

 

[garyd]

So according to the local leftist we can't pick and choose which loser dictators we go after and shouldn't even go after ones we've already been at war with for nearly a decade...

It's a good thing we didn't have you around during and before WWII.

Oh that's right we did, and right up until he started banging heads with Uncle Joe Stalin in the Spanish Civil war your grandparents thought Hitler and Moussolini were swell fellows.