US Drawing Up Plans To Sink the Russian Black Sea Fleet: Ukrainian Official

[Delldude]

Ukraine is a very corrupt country that was part of the USSR for decades. Let Putin have it back then the corruption is his problem. Its none of our business as the USA. Of course, the payments from Ukraine to the Biden family might end and that is the only reason the USA is involved now.

I saw pic's of military and medical supplies that have been given to them by NATO, for sale to the public.

 

[toomuchtime_]

nothing new about any of that, its been going on since humans first walked upright. The strong exploit the weak, sadly its human nature.

China wants to be the predominant nation on earth, Biden is helping them achieve that goal. Weak US presidents always result in a more dangerous world.

In primitive societies it has been human practice for the strong to exploit the weak, but it is not clear it is human nature to do so. The progress of civilization has led people and nations to pass laws and sign treaties to prevent the strong from exploiting the weak and to punish those throwbacks who still yearn for more primitive times. There are limits to what the civilized nations of the world will tolerate, as Russia and its foolish leader are painfully discovering.

"China wants to be the predominant nation on earth". Why
would China want that? The strength of China was built on peaceful commerce with the US and EU, the two richest markets on the planet, so why would China want to risk losing access to these markets as Russia and its foolish leader have done?

The issues between the US and China concern trade, not some primitive notion of world dominance. China is still governed by the Communist Party so it is not yet comfortable navigating the sometimes difficult waters of free market trade and that is why it assumes a confrontational stance when its aims are frustrated, but its economy and therefore the stability of the nation are dependent on continued trade with the US and EU, so there is little danger that relations with China will deteriorate into the state of US-Russian relations brought on by Russia's reckless and foolish actions.

 

[Redfish]

In primitive societies it has been human practice for the strong to exploit the weak, but it is not clear it is human nature to do so. The progress of civilization has led people and nations to pass laws and sign treaties to prevent the strong from exploiting the weak and to punish those throwbacks who still yearn for more primitive times. There are limits to what the civilized nations of the world will tolerate, as Russia and its foolish leader are painfully discovering.

"China wants to be the predominant nation on earth". Why
would China want that? The strength of China was built on peaceful commerce with the US and EU, the two richest markets on the planet, so why would China want to risk losing access to these markets as Russia and its foolish leader have done?

The issues between the US and China concern trade, not some primitive notion of world dominance. China is still governed by the Communist Party so it is not yet comfortable navigating the sometimes difficult waters of free market trade and that is why it assumes a confrontational stance when its aims are frustrated, but its economy and therefore the stability of the nation are dependent on continued trade with the US and EU, so there is little danger that relations with China will deteriorate into the state of US-Russian relations brought on by Russia's reckless and foolish actions.

You don't understand China at all. They have been envious of our success for decades and have been on a long term plan to overtake us and become the dominant economic and military power on earth.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You don't understand China at all. They have been envious of our success for decades and have been on a long term plan to overtake us and become the dominant economic and military power on earth.

Or so you imagine. In the last few centuries, China was effectively taken over by western colonial powers, then ravaged by the Japanese in WWII, after which these same western powers tried to intervene in a Chinese civil war and branded the communists who won the war an enemy, watched western powers fight wars right on China's borders to control their colonies. Of course China, for very good reasons, believes it must have a powerful military to defend itself against the western powers that condemned China's colonization of Tibet even as those same powers fought wars to defend their control over colonies in Asia, as well as to defend itself from India and Russia, with which it has long borders. And you can't have a powerful military without a powerful economy.

Is it that China wants to be the dominant economic and military power on Earth or that the West is determined to remain the dominant economic and miliary power on Earth and is resentful of China's growing economic success and that resentment has turned into fear? The West argues that it wants to defend freedom and democracy everywhere, and that is to some extent true, but perhaps from a Chinese perspective it seems the failed colonial powers of the West still want to dominate the peoples of Asia.

 

[eagle1462010]

Spam isn't on my plate anymore.

Just kissing putin ass is then huh duck

 

[eagle1462010]

Can you present for us a limited nuclear war scenario? Choose whichever side you would imagine would be the winner.

This could add a lot tot his discussion.

I have no bias towared any one side because I don't consider that to be rational in a nuclear war.

More fear mongering. If they pull the trigger the world ends duck.

What you are really doing here is being putins ***** playing the we gonna nuke you game

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, there is only one possibility, that Putin sees himself as emulating Peter the Great and "taking back" as he puts it, all the land beyond Russia's border he believes rightfully belongs to Russia. With his imperialist aggression against Ukraine Putin has validated the purpose of NATO, which was always to prevent Russian/USSR from expanding its empire to the west.

Spot on. All of it.

He is steeped in Russian mythology. He is probably the richest person on the planet, and the most paranoid.

What happened to the Tsars? Quite a few were assassinated.

He has surrounded himself with trained killers and with people equally sloven and craven as he is himself. He knows this. Imagine his paranoia.

 

[alexa]

You don't understand China at all. They have been envious of our success for decades and have been on a long term plan to overtake us and become the dominant economic and military power on earth.

Or possibly self defence. You and us, the British, have them encircled with warships. Every country which had the financial ability would protect themselves if that is what they are facing.

 

[Redfish]

Or possibly self defence. You and us, the British, have them encircled with warships. Every country which had the financial ability would protect themselves if that is what they are facing.

yes, self defense is one of their goals, as it is for every country. But China wants more than mere security, they want to dominate the world and have been on a 100 year plan to make that happen.

 

[Redfish]

Or so you imagine. In the last few centuries, China was effectively taken over by western colonial powers, then ravaged by the Japanese in WWII, after which these same western powers tried to intervene in a Chinese civil war and branded the communists who won the war an enemy, watched western powers fight wars right on China's borders to control their colonies. Of course China, for very good reasons, believes it must have a powerful military to defend itself against the western powers that condemned China's colonization of Tibet even as those same powers fought wars to defend their control over colonies in Asia, as well as to defend itself from India and Russia, with which it has long borders. And you can't have a powerful military without a powerful economy.

Is it that China wants to be the dominant economic and military power on Earth or that the West is determined to remain the dominant economic and miliary power on Earth and is resentful of China's growing economic success and that resentment has turned into fear? The West argues that it wants to defend freedom and democracy everywhere, and that is to some extent true, but perhaps from a Chinese perspective it seems the failed colonial powers of the West still want to dominate the peoples of Asia.

some truth in all that. interesting that you blame the west and Japan for China's aggression. Would it not be aggression for China to invade Taiwan and try to make it part of China again? Hmmm, quite like Putin trying to make Ukraine part of Russia again, right? and a weak US president could allow both of those things to happen. get ready.

 

[alexa]

yes, self defense is one of their goals, as it is for every country. But China wants more than mere security, they want to dominate the world and have been on a 100 year plan to make that happen.

source. Would you deny that that is what the US has been up to during its short spell as 'leader of the world.'

 

[Redfish]

source. Would you deny that that is what the US has been up to during its short spell as 'leader of the world.'

nothing in US history shows a plan to dominate the world. Only to allow its citizens to live free and as they choose. China's domination plan is documented and well known world wide.

 

[alexa]

nothing in US history shows a plan to dominate the world. Only to allow its citizens to live free and as they choose. China's domination plan is documented and well known world wide.

The US has its forces in 170 countries

All The Countries Worldwide With A U.S. Military Presence [Infographic]

The U.S military has 200,000 active-service members deployed in at least 170 countries worldwide.

www.forbes.com

Thing is, in order to have an interest in genuine freedom you must think of the same freedom for everyone else. The US may go on wars claiming it is going to make people free but they don't work. If you had walked the walk as well as talking the talk, respecting others right to freedom, then the US could have done a lot. Sadly it did not happen and right now you are surrounding China so do not be surprised if it decides to try a little of that too. Apart from that I think China is one of those countries with little history of attacking outside countries. I think it has more than enough people to look after.

 

[toomuchtime_]

some truth in all that. interesting that you blame the west and Japan for China's aggression. Would it not be aggression for China to invade Taiwan and try to make it part of China again? Hmmm, quite like Putin trying to make Ukraine part of Russia again, right? and a weak US president could allow both of those things to happen. get ready.

There is no connection between China's issues with Taiwan and Russia's issue with Ukraine. The issue between China and Taiwan is an unresolved matter dating from the Chinese civil war after WWII, but Russia had formally recognized Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation before Putin. China never recognized Taiwan as an independent nation, and most of the world, including the US, has been ambivalent about Taiwan's status. This is why Taiwan is not a member of the UN and Ukraine is. Biden's stance on Ukraine cannot reasonably be called weak, and no US president has taken a strong position on the issues between China and Taiwan.

 

[toomuchtime_]

source. Would you deny that that is what the US has been up to during its short spell as 'leader of the world.'

The term is "leader of the free world" not leader of the world and US leadership of the free world is by consensus, not by conquest or intimidation. The US became the leader of the free world by frustrating Hitler's imperialist ambitions and rebuilding Europe after the war and organizing Europe into NATO to frustrate the USSR's imperialist ambitions, and now Putin's imperialist ambitions. While the US record is not spotless, it is preposterous to suggest the US sought to dominate the world through the use or threat of military power.

 

[Redfish]

The US has its forces in 170 countries

All The Countries Worldwide With A U.S. Military Presence [Infographic]

The U.S military has 200,000 active-service members deployed in at least 170 countries worldwide.

www.forbes.com

Thing is, in order to have an interest in genuine freedom you must think of the same freedom for everyone else. The US may go on wars claiming it is going to make people free but they don't work. If you had walked the walk as well as talking the talk, respecting others right to freedom, then the US could have done a lot. Sadly it did not happen and right now you are surrounding China so do not be surprised if it decides to try a little of that too. Apart from that I think China is one of those countries with little history of attacking outside countries. I think it has more than enough people to look after.

we agree on that.

 

[Redfish]

There is no connection between China's issues with Taiwan and Russia's issue with Ukraine. The issue between China and Taiwan is an unresolved matter dating from the Chinese civil war after WWII, but Russia had formally recognized Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation before Putin. China never recognized Taiwan as an independent nation, and most of the world, including the US, has been ambivalent about Taiwan's status. This is why Taiwan is not a member of the UN and Ukraine is. Biden's stance on Ukraine cannot reasonably be called weak, and no US president has taken a strong position on the issues between China and Taiwan.

I did not say there was a connection, I said there is a parallel. please read before responding.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I did not say there was a connection, I said there is a parallel. please read before responding.

There is no parallel. The separation of China and Taiwan is unfinished business from the Chinese civil war and the world, including the US, has been very ambivalent about the issue, but Russia formally recognized Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation before Putin took power.

 

[Redfish]

There is no parallel. The separation of China and Taiwan is unfinished business from the Chinese civil war and the world, including the US, has been very ambivalent about the issue, but Russia formally recognized Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation before Putin took power.

yeah sure. The corrupt country of Ukraine would be better off if it returned to part of Russia, but the payments to the Biden family might stop, so we should sacrifice american kids to keep the money flowing to the Bidens, right?

 

[beagle9]

yes, self defense is one of their goals, as it is for every country. But China wants more than mere security, they want to dominate the world and have been on a 100 year plan to make that happen.

I agree with this.... Look at how well these people do in the education fields, so think about just that for a second, otherwise if you are a highly intellectual Chinese with a supposed superior IQ, then would you want to be ruled or held in subjection to your supposed inferiors in the world ?????

Yes these people are definitely a threat to American's big time, and especially so after we foolishly allowed them in to close to our national security, and worse we actually built them up to a level that has multiplied the threat to realistic level's to be concerned about.