US Credibility Crash as world swings to support Russia

[jknowgood]

Putin lover

Lets hear your terms for peace

For us to mind our own business.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Putin is pretty blameless in this situation...


He was just protecting his people from a possible Nazi invasion ....and Biden and the western world decided to side with the Nazis......


EDIT: If it turns out bad for Russia...I will totally pretend I never said any of this and claim I supported Ukraine and the US all along...

#MAGA

He was just protecting his people from a possible Nazi invasion ....and Biden and the western world decided to side with the Nazis......

Is anyone who opposes Putin a nazi?

Poor Russia, never did anything to anyone, the entire world decides to pick on her for no reason.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

He was just protecting his people from a possible Nazi invasion ....and Biden and the western world decided to side with the Nazis......

Is anyone who opposes Putin a nazi?

Poor Russia, never did anything to anyone, the entire world decides to pick on her for no reason.

Yes, anyone who opposes Putin and sides with Ukraine are Nazis.......


Unless years from now, Putin's invasion doesn't play out well.....kind of like Bush's invasion....


In that case, I will pretend I supported Ukraine's effort to drive Putin out of Ukraine all along.....just like I now pretend Bush's invasion into Iraq was wrong and I was against it the whole time....


#MAGA

 

[Couchpotato]

Putin has made it necessary to expand NATO
How is that working out for Putin?

Only 5 countries have joined NATO since Putin took power in Russia.

Croatia, Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and most recently Finland.

None of those countries share a border with Russia and only Finland doesnt have a NATO wall of countries between them and Russia.

 

[rightwinger]

Only 5 countries have joined NATO since Putin took power in Russia.

Croatia, Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and most recently Finland.

None of those countries share a border with Russia and only Finland doesnt have a NATO wall of countries between them and Russia.

Since Putin invaded

Finland and likely Sweden and Ukraine

Not what Putin expected

 

[airplanemechanic]

We (the west) promised Russia (not Putin) that NATO wouldn’t move one inch East when they agreed to dismantle the USSR. It’s a promise we’ve broken over and over.

They "agreed" to dismantle the USSR? Is that what history books are saying now?

 

[airplanemechanic]

Russia?

USSR. They broke up in the early 90s. All agreements with the USSR are null and void. Like agreements you make with a dead person. We never agreed to anything with the USSR anyway.

 

[Dadoalex]

With US-Ukey Nazi forces taking a terrible beating in Khazaria , this reports on the decling support for the US proxy war efforts which have gone from bad to awful .

During interview Pulitzer Prize-winner Seymour Hersh stated “more than half” of the world’s population supports Russia. He commented on the growth of this support across the Global South, with Russia becoming increasingly popular among emerging nations. Hersh emphasized how this process has gained strength in Africa and Asia, where there is a strong transition of opinion among people, as citizens who previously had favorable views of the West have recently started to support Moscow.

Hersh claims the US has “lost so much credibility around the world” with its pro-war attitudes, that the current anti-Western wave is quite “dramatic”. He also commented on how the American government has invested billions in the war to the detriment of social programs, strongly destabilizing the internal scenario and affecting its own population – which is extremely condemned around the world, being considered something “outrageous” and contributing to the loss of credibility.

Ridiculous on its face.

Sure, some Russian client states are mouthing Moscow propaganda but the world stand for democracy, freedom, and self determination.

You lost this argument with the lie in your first sentence.

 

[JohnDB]

With US-Ukey Nazi forces taking a terrible beating in Khazaria , this reports on the decling support for the US proxy war efforts which have gone from bad to awful .

During interview Pulitzer Prize-winner Seymour Hersh stated “more than half” of the world’s population supports Russia. He commented on the growth of this support across the Global South, with Russia becoming increasingly popular among emerging nations. Hersh emphasized how this process has gained strength in Africa and Asia, where there is a strong transition of opinion among people, as citizens who previously had favorable views of the West have recently started to support Moscow.

Hersh claims the US has “lost so much credibility around the world” with its pro-war attitudes, that the current anti-Western wave is quite “dramatic”. He also commented on how the American government has invested billions in the war to the detriment of social programs, strongly destabilizing the internal scenario and affecting its own population – which is extremely condemned around the world, being considered something “outrageous” and contributing to the loss of credibility.

I find it incredible that you actually believe any of this. How small of a mind you actually have and yet somehow actually survive without winning a darwin award on a daily basis is a sheer miracle to me.

Are you willingly this nieive? Do you have special needs and a caregiver who watches over you? I'm absolutely positive that you are not successful in the financial realm or the social realm. You can't hold the opinions you do and function in either. And where the stench and signs of failure surrounds you in most aspects of your life you persist in believing that you are right. How does that happen that you can't smell or see?

 

[Couchpotato]

Since Putin invaded

Finland and likely Sweden and Ukraine

Not what Putin expected

But expansion of NATO hasn’t happened because Putin was in power. He’s been President for the last 2 decades and no one has joined because of it. Also why do we need to expand NATO defend Europe? Are we not allowed to defend Europe without NATO? All the things we have done or will do can be done with or without NATO. Certainly we can without expanding NATO. We’re doing that currently in Ukraine. It seems that the expansion of NATO has little benefit for US national security (though lots for defense contractors) and a lot of downside.

 

[rightwinger]

But expansion of NATO hasn’t happened because Putin was in power. He’s been President for the last 2 decades and no one has joined because of it. Also why do we need to expand NATO defend Europe? Are we not allowed to defend Europe without NATO? All the things we have done or will do can be done with or without NATO. Certainly we can without expanding NATO. We’re doing that currently in Ukraine. It seems that the expansion of NATO has little benefit for US national security (though lots for defense contractors) and a lot of downside.

Putin was not a threat to his neighbors before
Now he is

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Make peace, you fools!

Fine, then Putin needs to withdraw all his troops, give back all lands taken, pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine, and then head to The Hague to be put on trial for his crimes against Humanity!

If he does that then the war ends!

 

[Flash]

I have no particular love of Ukraine but I hate to see their country destroyed by the goddamn Russians.

At least the Ukrainians are fighting for their country. Much different than many more countries we have seen where they think somebody else needs to save their ass, like the US.

I hope the Ukrainians prevail and the Russians are humiliated.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Putin was not a threat to his neighbors before
Now he is

Wrong, he has always been a threat.

 

[MisterBeale]

Well. . . at this point, the west has shown, it cannot be trusted.

Not like trustworthy old Russia.

Agreed.

IMO? I don't think any of the oligarchs, in any of the nations, can be trusted.

I don't care for any of them. The ruling classes in every nation, don't give a shit about any of their people, and they are all only looking out for number one. Duh.

That is what the point of the thread it about, "credibility crash." None of them are credible anymore, they are all even using their own research and polling outfits, to "prove," it at this point.

International Attitudes Toward the U.S., NATO and Russia in a Time of Crisis | Pew Research Center

Most say U.S. is reliable partner, and ratings for Biden are mostly positive – although down significantly from last year.

www.pewresearch.org

International Attitudes Toward the U.S., NATO and Russia in a Time of Crisis​

Most say U.S. is reliable partner, and ratings for Biden are mostly positive – although down significantly from last year​

US seen as bigger threat to democracy than Russia or China, global poll finds

Belief in importance of democracy high in 53 sampled countries but inequality and big tech companies seen as biggest threats

www.theguardian.com

US is seen as a bigger threat to democracy around the world than Russia or China, new poll finds​

US is seen as a bigger threat to democracy around the world than Russia or China, new poll finds

Four years of Donald Trump dings the United States’ reputation

news.yahoo.com

 

[Couchpotato]

USSR. They broke up in the early 90s. All agreements with the USSR are null and void. Like agreements you make with a dead person. We never agreed to anything with the USSR anyway.

Dummy. Russia was still a country and that’s who we made our agreement with. Acting like that’s not what happened doesn’t change it. The USSR was Russia and a bunch of satellite countries. Those countries kept their “sovereignty”. It was t one big country, even if it acted in large part like one.

 

[BackAgain]

Too many big words for you? Placing undue importance on subjective ideas is in no way comparable to tangible realities like raw materials or trade revenues.

Still irrelevant to the discussion. But I’m happy for you that you imagine you’ve made a point.

 

[georgephillip]

With US-Ukey Nazi forces taking a terrible beating in Khazaria , this reports on the decling support for the US proxy war efforts which have gone from bad to awful .

During interview Pulitzer Prize-winner Seymour Hersh stated “more than half” of the world’s population supports Russia. He commented on the growth of this support across the Global South, with Russia becoming increasingly popular among emerging nations. Hersh emphasized how this process has gained strength in Africa and Asia, where there is a strong transition of opinion among people, as citizens who previously had favorable views of the West have recently started to support Moscow.

Hersh claims the US has “lost so much credibility around the world” with its pro-war attitudes, that the current anti-Western wave is quite “dramatic”. He also commented on how the American government has invested billions in the war to the detriment of social programs, strongly destabilizing the internal scenario and affecting its own population – which is extremely condemned around the world, being considered something “outrageous” and contributing to the loss of credibility.

The US has ruled the world since 1945 (at least).
That is changing, and US elites are slow to catch on.
Millions of additional human beings will become dead, displaced, and maimed to maintain US global domination.

The ‘Fourth Turning’ that will define our Century | MR Online

"Zbig Brzezinski, then (1997) a U.S. Presidential adviser, put it starkly: ‘Eurasia is the largest Continent on earth; and Europe is America’s indispensable bridgehead into that Heartland.

"With each expansion of Europe’s scope, therefore, the U.S. sphere of influence expands as well’. And for domination of Eurasia, he said: Ukraine is the key state."

 

[MisterBeale]

LOL... what "promises" have we "broken"?

Stop lying.

Well, other than post #27 itself being proof of a broken promise. . . And you reading, looking at the evidence, and being in complete denial? I don't know what to tell you. . .

Analysis: How a 1999 NATO operation turned Russia against the West​

Analysis: How a 1999 NATO operation turned Russia against the West - The Pitt News

Putin isn't driven by political logic — he acts on a grudge. And understanding the cause of the grudge could prove vital in ending it.

pittnews.com

". . . But the autonomous region was in Serbia, where the official language was Serbian and the official religion was Eastern Orthodox Christianity — 85 percent of the population were Serbs, and only 1 percent were Albanian.

Through the 1990s, this ethnic disparity escalated to all-out war — the Kosovo War began in March 1998, and ended on June 11, 1999. A group of rebels banded together as the Kosovo Liberation Army — or KLA — to fight against Yugoslavia for discriminating against Kosovo Albanians.

But things turned ugly in January of 1999. In the small town of Racak, Serbian security forces killed 45 Kosovo Albanians, and most of the slain were women and children.

In response to the Racak massacre, NATO did something unprecedented. The coalition wanted to end the massacres of Kosovo Albanians, but were told by Russian and Chinese UN delegates that their nations would oppose any use of force. So, without the authorization of the United Nations Security Council, NATO military forces launched a bombing campaign against Yugoslavia that lasted 78 days. Operation Allied Force — the official NATO code name for the attacks — resulted in the deaths of over 500 civilians.

When Russia was later ostracized by the Western world for its annexation of Crimea and actions in Syria, a journalist asked Putin if the decline of Russo-American relations was due to Crimea or Syria.

“You are mistaken,” Putin said. “Think about Yugoslavia. This is when it started.”

NATO’s bombing of Yugoslavia represented a drastic use of military force that Putin saw as contrary to international law — which it probably was. And for people like Putin, who reminisce over the powerful Soviet Union that they grew up in, an attack on Serbia was an attack on a close ally.

So for the first few years of his presidency, during which he launched the nation into a new war in Chechnya, Putin focused on bringing dignity back to Russia. Even today, he’s still on this quest in places like Georgia, Chechnya and Crimea. Putin continues to reference Operation Allied Force when discussing international politics. . . . "

The US ‘Betrayed’ Russia, but It Is Not ‘News That’s Fit to Print’​

New evidence that Washington broke its promise not to expand NATO “one inch eastward”—a fateful decision with ongoing ramifications—has not been reported by The New York Times or other agenda-setting media outlets.​

The US ‘Betrayed’ Russia, but It Is Not ‘News That's Fit to Print’

New evidence that Washington broke its promise not to expand NATO “one inch eastward”—a fateful decision with ongoing ramifications—has not been reported by The New York Times or other agenda-setting media outlets.

www.thenation.com

". . . How to explain the failure of the Times and Post to report or otherwise comment on the National Security Archive’s publication? It can hardly be their lack of space or their disinterest in Russia, which they featured regularly in one kind of unflattering story or another—and almost daily in the form of “Russiagate.” Given their immense daily news-gathering capabilities, could both papers have missed the story? Impossible, even more so considering that three lesser publications—The National Interest, on December 12; Bloomberg, on December 13; and The American Conservative, on December 22—reported and commented on its significance at length. Or perhaps the Times and Post consider the history and process of NATO expansion to be no longer newsworthy, even though it has been the driving, escalatory factor behind the new US-Russian Cold War; already contributed to two US-Russian proxy hot wars (in Georgia in 2008 and in Ukraine since 2014) as well as to NATO’s ongoing buildup on Russia’s borders in the Baltic region, which is fraught with the possibility of an actual war between the nuclear superpowers; provoked Russia into reactions now cited as “grave threats”; nearly vaporized politically both the once robust pro-American lobby in Moscow politics and the previously widespread pro-American sentiments among Russian citizens; and implanted in at least one generation of the Russian policy elite the conviction that the broken promise to Gorbachev represented characteristic American “betrayal and deceit.” Both Russian presidents since 2000—Putin and President Obama’s “reset partner,” Dmitry Medvedev—have said the same, more than once. Putin put it bluntly:“They duped us, in the full sense of this word.” (See Cohen’s book Soviet Fates and Lost Alternatives.) Russians can cite other instances of “deceit,” including President George W. Bush’s 2002 unilateral abrogation of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and Obama’s broken promise that he would not use a 2011 UN Security Council resolution to depose Libyan leader Gaddafi. But it is the broken promise to Gorbachev that lingers as America’s original sin, partly because it was the first of many such perceived duplicities, but mainly because it has resulted in a Russia semi-encircled by US-led Western military power, an encroachment that continues today.

Given all this, we must ask again: Why did neither the Times nor the Post report the archive revelations? Most likely because the evidence fundamentally undermines their essential overarching narrative that Putin’s Russia is solely responsible for the new Cold War and all of its attendant conflicts and dangers, and therefore that no rethinking of US policy toward post-Soviet Russia since 1991 is advisable or, it seems, permissible, certainly not by President Donald Trump. Therein lie the national-security dangers of media malpractice, and this example, while of special importance, is far from the only one in recent years. In this regard, the Times and Post seem contemptuous not only of their own professed journalistic standards but of their purportedly cherished adage that democracy requires fully informed citizens. . . . "

Ukraine War: Merkel Says Minsk Talks Helped Kyiv Buy Time, Prepare Better​

Ukraine War: Merkel Says Minsk Talks Helped Kyiv Buy Time, Prepare Better - News18

Speaking to German news agency, Merkel defended her Russia policy but said she failed to influence Russian President Vladimir Putin

www.news18.com

It was revealed in the Wikileaks cabals. Everyone that has followed the story, and watched when Tory Nuland orchestrated coup, said the EU could pound sand, everyone knows this. You are either ignorant, or gaslighting the forum and yourself. I'd like to think you are a decent fellow, but we all know, when it comes to stuff like this, you are an out and out liar.

US gov’t knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene​

US gov't knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene - Geopolitical Economy Report

US Ambassador William Burns, now CIA director, admitted in 2008 embassy cable that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Russia's security "redlines" and could lead to violence which would force Moscow to intervene.

multipolarista.com

". . . Ukraine and Georgia’s NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.. . .

Burns’ warnings came true just a few years later.. . ."

Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

The CIA knew what it was doing. . . it wanted war, and it got one.

NATO should have never have been expanded. . . guarantees were given to Gorbachev, the west was NOT to be allowed to, and Putin is right. Nor were they allowed to place missiles in any of the new NATO members, which they have, since talks about the unification of Germany occurred.

Clausewitz: War as Politics by other Means | Online Library of Liberty

Related Links: Clausewitz Subject Area: War and Peace Source: Carl von Clausewitz, On War, trans. Col. J.J. Graham. New and Revised edition with Introduction and Notes by Col. F.N. Maude, in Three Volumes (London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & C., 1918). Vol. 1. Chapter: CHAPTER I: WHAT IS WAR...

oll.libertyfund.org

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA​

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA

johnpilger.com

". . . Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:

- NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
- NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
- Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
- the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
- the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)

These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.. . . "

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border​

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border

Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev was given a host of assurances that the NATO alliance would not expand past what was then the East German border in 1990 according to new declassified documents. Russian leaders often complain that the NATO extended an invitation to Hungary, Poland and what was...

nationalinterest.org

". . .Gorbachev only accepted German reunification—over which the Soviet Union had a legal right to veto under treaty—because he received assurances that NATO would not expand after he withdrew his forces from Eastern Europe from James Baker, President George H.W. Bush, West German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, the CIA Director Robert Gates, French President Francois Mitterrand, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, British foreign minister Douglas Hurd, British Prime Minister John Major, and NATO secretary-general Manfred Woerner.

Indeed, as late as March 1991, the British were reassuring Gorbachev that they could not foresee circumstances under which NATO might expand into Eastern and Central Europe. As former British Ambassador to the Soviet Union recounted in March 5, 1991, Rodric Braithwaite, both British foreign minister Douglas Hurd and British Prime Minister John Major told the Soviet that NATO would not expand eastwards.

“I believe that your thoughts about the role of NATO in the current situation are the result of misunderstanding,” Major had told Gorbachev. We are not talking about strengthening of NATO. We are talking about the coordination of efforts that is already happening in Europe between NATO and the West European Union, which, as it is envisioned, would allow all members of the European Community to contribute to enhance [our] security.”

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves

21 Feb 2022 - A newly discovered document provides more evidence that Western governments broke their promise not to expand NATO eastward after German reunification. Notes from a 1991 meeting prove that the US, UK, France, and Germany assured the Soviet Union that NATO would not expand east. ...

www.transcend.org

". . The 2+4 negotiations were talks in 1990 that allowed for the reunification of Germany, featuring capitalist West Germany and socialist East Germany (the 2) along with the United States, Soviet Union, Britain, and France (the 4).

Chrobog’s comments in the notes, therefore, confirm that the Western powers had promised the USSR in 1990 that they would not expand NATO eastward after German reunification.

Further clarifying this fact, the document adds that there was a “general agreement that membership of NATO and security guarantees [are] unacceptable” for countries east of Germany.. . ."

The western powers never had any intention of honoring the Minsk agreements, and Russia now knows this. . . both Macron and Merkel have admitted as much.

After Serbia, Libya, Syria, all the meddling clandestine forces and terror operations that the US and NATO have done in the nations on Russia's border, and the coup in Ukraine in 2014? All these are broken promises and admitted lies, these are documented leaked phones calls and leaked cables which are proof, you just going to say, it is all bullshit?

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/president-biden-making-america-normal-again.876476/post-31628036

Most intelligent folks know they are lying to the world about both Nordstream II and, more than likely, the Nova Kakhovka incident now, while openly calling for the overthrow of the Russian political regime.

Are you going to read all that, and just tell me it is all false and bullshit? None of it exists, and it is all bullshit, none of it ever happened?

Why the hell would that same Russian regime, now sit down and negotiate with these liars and psychopaths?



Most folks know, I don't intentionally, "lie." I just look for ways to clear away the propaganda. You are free to believe what you wish to believe, but I want to understand why there is conflict in the world. I don't believe folks are really, "evil." They all just want the same thing, survival.

I find your accusation of such, insulting.

I honestly don't think, that a nation, with the GDP of Texas, wanted to get sucked into this conflict. . . nor do I think the ruling elites of Russia made this decision lightly. . .

It was probably a last resort sort of thing.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

US Credibility Crash as world swings to support Russia​

Who supports Russia?

The US for one. Our current invalid invalid administration drove up the global price of oil and that has helped finance the Russian military.