Unsuspecting Small Business Owners Hit With $36,500 PER EMPLOYEE Obamacare Fines!

[BlueGin]

Easy there fella, let me explain to you.

Affordable care act is made affordable through government subsidies. Healthcare is expensive just as cars and gas and housing is expensive.

The 30 states refused health care exchanges precisely because they hate Obama. Oh and you know what I find funny? Instead of controlling their own health care exchanges under their own control, the ceded that power to the federal government. "We hate Obama so much, we will refuse the money and let the government handle healthcare for our state citizens". Hahahaha.

You do not understand how the government works. SCOTUS did not write the ACA law. Congress did. For you to post that stupid comment about 9 people in a robe forcing the law on to people shows that you really do not understand the role of the SCOTUS.

SCOTUS is the referreee, they are not the players. Referree is allowed to rule in a game. Referree does not play the game. He simply calls the ball as a in play or out of play.

The states couldn't afford to set up exchanges. Too expensive.

Hahaha, Yeah the states could not afford to set up a website. LOL! And Romney was also leading and going to win in a landslide. Hahahaha.

Yeah. To the tune if 50 million dollars.

 

[World Savior]

You just don't understand your own bullshit so let me explain to you.

Yes you can keep your plan if you like it. It means if your insurance company sells the same plan known as grandfathered plan then you can keep it. If they don't keep the same plan going then you can't buy it.

Many insurance companies discontinued their legacy plans because they did not want to remain in the old system. This was not government's fault. This was the fault of insurance companies. There are companies that still offer watered down old non compliant plans you can buy. All you have to do is pay a fine and use the old shitty plans if you like them.

And no, the government doesn't give a FK if you enroll in Obamacare. You can pay a fine and stay out of Obamacare for all we care. No one really cares if you have insurance or not. Heck, I prefer you stay out of Obamacare so that my lines at the doctors' will be smaller.

I want all republicans to stay out of insurance plans and pay cash or get sick and die from your own health ailments. We absolutely have no problem with you rejected quality healthcare for yourself. I don't want to see you guys at the doctors.

Keep paying cash or go to Panama and Costa Rica to get hip replacement. We don't mind. Pay the fine to IRS and stay out of the OBAMACARE system if you hate it so much.

Excuse me let me explain something to you.

Since the fucking government is forcing insurance companies to only offer one type of policy many perfectly good coverage plans were deemed to no longer meet minimum Obamacare requirements so now we have to pay for shit we don't need.

Men now have to pay for policies that cover maternity
Childless couples now have to pay for policies that cover pediatric dental and optometry
People that will never need drug or mental health counseling now have to pay for policies that cover those things

So by changing rules the fucking government made it impossible for people to keep their insurance if they were paying for a plan they likes that fit their needs but did not jive with what the fucking idiots in DC tell you you need

1. There are many types of plans available for you to choose from. You do not have to buy Obamacare compliant plans now. You will simply pay extra tax of $975 per year per family and buy any shitty stupid ugly moronic plan you want to buy out there.

What's that? Those plans were canceled? Yes that's a business decision made by insurance companies. Whine to the insurance companies, not to Obama.

2. Maternity coverage for me: Obamacare is like a buffet. Every go to restautants where they offer you all you can eat buffet? Yeah I do. Now, if you don't eat ice crea, at the buffet, do they give you discount? Nope. If you don't eat pork or beef, do they give you money back? Nope. If you eat only 1 piece of bread and someone else eats 4 pieced, do you get discount at the buffet? Nope. Getting the point? Probably not, so let me explain: Obamacare plans are like buffet. Don't want pregnancy coverage? Don't "eat" it. Don't want "optometry" services? Don't use it. Don't want "mental health" coverage? Don't use it. Don't want "cancer" services? Don't use it. Heck, I can go on and on and on and on and on.....and tell you that when you skep 90% of the food items on the buffet table, it does not reduce your bill one penny. You use what you need, you skip what you don't. I am not sure why you are having a hard time understanding how insurance works.

3. The government changed the rules to imrpve health care for everyone. And the government also allowed insurance companies to grandfather their plans. The old shitty simple easy plans also called fixed indemnity plans or basic fixed service fee plans are still available for people such as you. You can continue to use them.

Bottom line: You obviously don't understand insurance business. Insurance companies voluntarily made changes to their product offering s they saw fit. You do not have to buy insurance if you don't like any of the plans. And you can continue to shop for plans that offer basic services and pay cash for he rest. You will also pay the extra "tax penalty" if you don't have ACA compliant plans. That's a tax and the constitution allows government to colect taxes.

Let me know if you have any other questions/tantrums to throw at me.

It wasn't a business decision you moron

The government changed the minimum requirements by law

And if I have to pay 1000 more a year to "keep my plan" then that's Obamacare driving my premiums up which you say it doesn't do.

No matter how you spin it the if you like your plan you can keep it line was an outright lie.

Not only do you not understand anything about insurance, but you also don't understand anything about capitalism. Businesses change their product mix all the time. If it makes sense for them to keep some products, then they keep it. If not then they move on. Obama explicitly made an exception to keep grandfathered plans for insurance companies who wanted to continue them. If your insurance company discontinued it, then talk to them. Hold a conference meeting with them and demand those products back. It's not Obama's problem any more.

As far as the penalties, yes, that's legal and constitutional. It raises your cost of buying insurance in the long run just as when government imposes tariffs, gas taxes, Medicare premimums, SS contributions and so on. You should get a raise every year on your job. You should plan for cost of living increases. Inflation is a fact of life. Your rent goes up, taxes go up. Prices often go up for commodities every year. So do your taxes in some cases.

Thanks for your time.

What you don't understand is that many of the limited coverage policies would still be in effect today but because the fucking government decided to penalize people who want them then of course fewer people would have bought them so the viability of those products for insurance companies suffer so it makes no sense to keep them

It wasn't any free market force that caused those policies to disappear it was the fucking government's decision to penalize people for not buying the type of insurance they tell you to buy

It seems you're the one who doesn't understand the different between free market forces and government meddling in the free market with excessive regulation and tax penalties

Nope sir I understand very well what's on the market and what causes price hikes. You are welcome to buy those stupid shitty basic indemnity plans still available through some small companies out there. Government legislation ACA was designed to protect people. The government also provided subsidies for people who could not afford the payments.

There are companies selling non-Obamacare plans. All you have to do is buy those shitty plans, pay the tax penalty and your problem would be solved. Tax penalty is very minimal. If you had done your homework and knew what you were talking about then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can always shop around. Call an insurance agent near you. They will look up 50 companies and tell you who's offering cheapest plans for you. Buy the non-ACA plans, pay the penalty and stay out of Obamacare. Believe me, Obama doesn't give a FK if you are insured or not. It's your life and your wallet. Do as you please.

 

[BlueGin]

No, I didn't read the full text of the law nor am I going to read it to debate this issue with an internet troll on a public forum.

I am happy to enjoy the SCOTUS verdict and y ou are free to enjoy your butthurt as much as you like. Your choice.

IOW, you prefer to argue from emotion than engage in factual discussion. I understand.

Because he knows he is wrong

That SCOTUS spanking hurt you a lot, I see. Good luck recovering from your painful experience in American politics.

Me personally? No... I've been lucky. But I work in the healthcare industry and see the people it does hurt daily.

No, Obamacare really doesn't hurt as many people as you want to believe. Yes it's a bit expensive but regardless, it's going to help a lot of people.

Will keep them from seeking medical attention because they can't afford the deductibles.

 

[World Savior]

Oh well, did he call SCOTUS stupid? Cuzz, you know, SCOTUS heard all the arguments and declared Obamacare as being constitutional and legal in every way you can think of. Hehehe. You can post as many pics as you want, makes no difference on what Gruber said or anyone else said. Calling American people stupid doesn't mean Obamacare will go away. American people were stupid in 2003 when Bush said Saddam has WMDs. Hahahaha.

Well we KNOW now Saddam had 550 METRIC TONS of yellowcake that was finally shipped to Canada for disposal, and then we have THIS....

Stupid! Yellow cake is not WMD any more than a knife is a murder weapon. Saddam had no WMDs. End of story. No WMDs existed. I don't want to digress now. Start a new thread so I can kick your a$$ there too.

Obamacare is the law of the land. Do you understand this? It doesn't matter what Gruber said. ACA is the law. Do you understand this at all?

Let's see, I've already caught you in a LIE about yellowcake, as it's the starting point for any nuclear bomb..."The danger of yellowcake is primarily associated with its acquisition by a state intent on producing nuclear weapons, who does not have fissile material, but already has an enrichment plant and weaponization capabilities."....

Dred Scott was the law too...UNTIL it was changed! Your a fucking idiot, probably PAID administration flunky, and easy to kick your ass.... Tell Valerie, she better do better than you, although her GRUBER fuck up is MONUMENTAL!

Oh, by the way GRUBER.......

ObamaCare Will Leave 30 Mil Without Health Insurance: CBO
finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-leave-30-mil-without-230800173.html
Jul 24, 2012 · ObamaCare Will Leave 30 ... the CBO estimated that 27 million people would still ... we find out that a few more million people will not be covered ...

Start a new thread about WMDs some other time.

Yes Obamacare will leave 30 million without healthcare instead of 50 million without healthcare. So what's the problem?

 

[World Savior]

IOW, you prefer to argue from emotion than engage in factual discussion. I understand.

Because he knows he is wrong

That SCOTUS spanking hurt you a lot, I see. Good luck recovering from your painful experience in American politics.

Me personally? No... I've been lucky. But I work in the healthcare industry and see the people it does hurt daily.

No, Obamacare really doesn't hurt as many people as you want to believe. Yes it's a bit expensive but regardless, it's going to help a lot of people.

Will keep them from seeking medical attention because they can't afford the deductibles.

Sadly, healthcare is expensive. And the previous system we had was no better under which we had 50 million uninsured.

If your deductible is too high, then you should start saving for your HC like you save for college. And you have to live a healthy lifestyle. And find a job that provides HC. What can I say, HC is expensive. But not having ACA is much worse than having ACA.

 

[World Savior]

Easy there fella, let me explain to you.

Affordable care act is made affordable through government subsidies. Healthcare is expensive just as cars and gas and housing is expensive.

The 30 states refused health care exchanges precisely because they hate Obama. Oh and you know what I find funny? Instead of controlling their own health care exchanges under their own control, the ceded that power to the federal government. "We hate Obama so much, we will refuse the money and let the government handle healthcare for our state citizens". Hahahaha.

You do not understand how the government works. SCOTUS did not write the ACA law. Congress did. For you to post that stupid comment about 9 people in a robe forcing the law on to people shows that you really do not understand the role of the SCOTUS.

SCOTUS is the referreee, they are not the players. Referree is allowed to rule in a game. Referree does not play the game. He simply calls the ball as a in play or out of play.

The states couldn't afford to set up exchanges. Too expensive.

Hahaha, Yeah the states could not afford to set up a website. LOL! And Romney was also leading and going to win in a landslide. Hahahaha.

Yeah. To the tune if 50 million dollars.

Blue states did it. Here's your problem: On the one hand you refuse to take fed money for Medicaid, then you complain your state can't afford to set up state exchanges.

Fun fun fun! Rick Perry and Greg Abbott decided to throw away $100 billion over 10 years in Medicaid money. Thank you Texas. We don't mind. We will keep the money you don't use.

 

[Vigilante]

Oh well, did he call SCOTUS stupid? Cuzz, you know, SCOTUS heard all the arguments and declared Obamacare as being constitutional and legal in every way you can think of. Hehehe. You can post as many pics as you want, makes no difference on what Gruber said or anyone else said. Calling American people stupid doesn't mean Obamacare will go away. American people were stupid in 2003 when Bush said Saddam has WMDs. Hahahaha.

Well we KNOW now Saddam had 550 METRIC TONS of yellowcake that was finally shipped to Canada for disposal, and then we have THIS....

Stupid! Yellow cake is not WMD any more than a knife is a murder weapon. Saddam had no WMDs. End of story. No WMDs existed. I don't want to digress now. Start a new thread so I can kick your a$$ there too.

Obamacare is the law of the land. Do you understand this? It doesn't matter what Gruber said. ACA is the law. Do you understand this at all?

Let's see, I've already caught you in a LIE about yellowcake, as it's the starting point for any nuclear bomb..."The danger of yellowcake is primarily associated with its acquisition by a state intent on producing nuclear weapons, who does not have fissile material, but already has an enrichment plant and weaponization capabilities."....

Dred Scott was the law too...UNTIL it was changed! Your a fucking idiot, probably PAID administration flunky, and easy to kick your ass.... Tell Valerie, she better do better than you, although her GRUBER fuck up is MONUMENTAL!

Oh, by the way GRUBER.......

ObamaCare Will Leave 30 Mil Without Health Insurance: CBO
finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-leave-30-mil-without-230800173.html
Jul 24, 2012 · ObamaCare Will Leave 30 ... the CBO estimated that 27 million people would still ... we find out that a few more million people will not be covered ...

Start a new thread about WMDs some other time.

Yes Obamacare will leave 30 million without healthcare instead of 50 million without healthcare. So what's the problem?

Yes, I know I kicked your ass on the WMD, and 50 MILLION Americans have to now pay an average of $2500 a year MORE for WORSE medical coverage than they had and a MUCH HIGHER deductible....And many kicked out of having their old doctor treat them, as more and more doctors opt OUT of SCOTUScare!

Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges | CNS …
www.cnsnews.com/.../over-214000-doctors-opt-out-obamacare-exchanges
Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges. By Barbara Boland | October 28, 2014 | 11:28 AM EDT

 

[World Savior]

Oh well, did he call SCOTUS stupid? Cuzz, you know, SCOTUS heard all the arguments and declared Obamacare as being constitutional and legal in every way you can think of. Hehehe. You can post as many pics as you want, makes no difference on what Gruber said or anyone else said. Calling American people stupid doesn't mean Obamacare will go away. American people were stupid in 2003 when Bush said Saddam has WMDs. Hahahaha.

Well we KNOW now Saddam had 550 METRIC TONS of yellowcake that was finally shipped to Canada for disposal, and then we have THIS....

Stupid! Yellow cake is not WMD any more than a knife is a murder weapon. Saddam had no WMDs. End of story. No WMDs existed. I don't want to digress now. Start a new thread so I can kick your a$$ there too.

Obamacare is the law of the land. Do you understand this? It doesn't matter what Gruber said. ACA is the law. Do you understand this at all?

Let's see, I've already caught you in a LIE about yellowcake, as it's the starting point for any nuclear bomb..."The danger of yellowcake is primarily associated with its acquisition by a state intent on producing nuclear weapons, who does not have fissile material, but already has an enrichment plant and weaponization capabilities."....

Dred Scott was the law too...UNTIL it was changed! Your a fucking idiot, probably PAID administration flunky, and easy to kick your ass.... Tell Valerie, she better do better than you, although her GRUBER fuck up is MONUMENTAL!

Oh, by the way GRUBER.......

ObamaCare Will Leave 30 Mil Without Health Insurance: CBO
finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-leave-30-mil-without-230800173.html
Jul 24, 2012 · ObamaCare Will Leave 30 ... the CBO estimated that 27 million people would still ... we find out that a few more million people will not be covered ...

Start a new thread about WMDs some other time.

Yes Obamacare will leave 30 million without healthcare instead of 50 million without healthcare. So what's the problem?

Yes, I know I kicked your ass on the WMD, and 50 MILLION Americans have to now pay an average of $2500 a year MORE for WORSE medical coverage than they had and a MUCH HIGHER deductible....And many kicked out of having their old doctor treat them, as more and more doctors opt OUT of SCOTUScare!

Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges | CNS …
www.cnsnews.com/.../over-214000-doctors-opt-out-obamacare-exchanges
Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges. By Barbara Boland | October 28, 2014 | 11:28 AM EDT

Nope, you did not kick my ass on the WMD issue.

As for the 214000 doctors opting out, politifact debunked it.

Chain email claims 214 000 doctors refuse to take patients with insurance bought on marketplaces PolitiFact

Do you feel like a fool yet? It's about time you did.

 

[Vigilante]

Well we KNOW now Saddam had 550 METRIC TONS of yellowcake that was finally shipped to Canada for disposal, and then we have THIS....

Stupid! Yellow cake is not WMD any more than a knife is a murder weapon. Saddam had no WMDs. End of story. No WMDs existed. I don't want to digress now. Start a new thread so I can kick your a$$ there too.

Obamacare is the law of the land. Do you understand this? It doesn't matter what Gruber said. ACA is the law. Do you understand this at all?

Let's see, I've already caught you in a LIE about yellowcake, as it's the starting point for any nuclear bomb..."The danger of yellowcake is primarily associated with its acquisition by a state intent on producing nuclear weapons, who does not have fissile material, but already has an enrichment plant and weaponization capabilities."....

Dred Scott was the law too...UNTIL it was changed! Your a fucking idiot, probably PAID administration flunky, and easy to kick your ass.... Tell Valerie, she better do better than you, although her GRUBER fuck up is MONUMENTAL!

Oh, by the way GRUBER.......

ObamaCare Will Leave 30 Mil Without Health Insurance: CBO
finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-leave-30-mil-without-230800173.html
Jul 24, 2012 · ObamaCare Will Leave 30 ... the CBO estimated that 27 million people would still ... we find out that a few more million people will not be covered ...

Start a new thread about WMDs some other time.

Yes Obamacare will leave 30 million without healthcare instead of 50 million without healthcare. So what's the problem?

Yes, I know I kicked your ass on the WMD, and 50 MILLION Americans have to now pay an average of $2500 a year MORE for WORSE medical coverage than they had and a MUCH HIGHER deductible....And many kicked out of having their old doctor treat them, as more and more doctors opt OUT of SCOTUScare!

Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges | CNS …
www.cnsnews.com/.../over-214000-doctors-opt-out-obamacare-exchanges
Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges. By Barbara Boland | October 28, 2014 | 11:28 AM EDT

Nope, you did not kick my ass on the WMD issue.

As for the 214000 doctors opting out, politifact debunked it.

Chain email claims 214 000 doctors refuse to take patients with insurance bought on marketplaces PolitiFact

Do you feel like a fool yet? It's about time you did.

Yes, I did kick you ass on WMD
Politifacts is a leftist organization part of the Annenberg group as was Obama!
And I see arguing with a fool, such as yourself is something I like to do late at night when I have HOURS to make you look even dumber than you already look!



But you can have the last lying words, so then you can justify it to yourself that you won! LOLOL!

 

[westwall]

No, I didn't read the full text of the law nor am I going to read it to debate this issue with an internet troll on a public forum.

I am happy to enjoy the SCOTUS verdict and y ou are free to enjoy your butthurt as much as you like. Your choice.

IOW, you prefer to argue from emotion than engage in factual discussion. I understand.

Because he knows he is wrong

That SCOTUS spanking hurt you a lot, I see. Good luck recovering from your painful experience in American politics.

Me personally? No... I've been lucky. But I work in the healthcare industry and see the people it does hurt daily.

No, Obamacare really doesn't hurt as many people as you want to believe. Yes it's a bit expensive but regardless, it's going to help a lot of people.

Then WHY don't we hear of the people it has helped? In my area I can show you 20 or so that I personally know it has screwed. I can't find a single one that it has helped. There have been no reports in the news papers locally, that describe ANYONE who has been helped by this shit program.

 

[Vigilante]

Let's see, I've already caught you in a LIE about yellowcake, as it's the starting point for any nuclear bomb..."The danger of yellowcake is primarily associated with its acquisition by a state intent on producing nuclear weapons, who does not have fissile material, but already has an enrichment plant and weaponization capabilities."....

Dred Scott was the law too...UNTIL it was changed! Your a fucking idiot, probably PAID administration flunky, and easy to kick your ass.... Tell Valerie, she better do better than you, although her GRUBER fuck up is MONUMENTAL!

Oh, by the way GRUBER.......

ObamaCare Will Leave 30 Mil Without Health Insurance: CBO
finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-leave-30-mil-without-230800173.html
Jul 24, 2012 · ObamaCare Will Leave 30 ... the CBO estimated that 27 million people would still ... we find out that a few more million people will not be covered ...

Start a new thread about WMDs some other time.

Yes Obamacare will leave 30 million without healthcare instead of 50 million without healthcare. So what's the problem?

Yes, I know I kicked your ass on the WMD, and 50 MILLION Americans have to now pay an average of $2500 a year MORE for WORSE medical coverage than they had and a MUCH HIGHER deductible....And many kicked out of having their old doctor treat them, as more and more doctors opt OUT of SCOTUScare!

Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges | CNS …
www.cnsnews.com/.../over-214000-doctors-opt-out-obamacare-exchanges
Over 214,000 Doctors Opt Out of Obamacare Exchanges. By Barbara Boland | October 28, 2014 | 11:28 AM EDT

Nope, you did not kick my ass on the WMD issue.

As for the 214000 doctors opting out, politifact debunked it.

Chain email claims 214 000 doctors refuse to take patients with insurance bought on marketplaces PolitiFact

Do you feel like a fool yet? It's about time you did.

Yes, I did kick you ass on WMD
Politifacts is a leftist organization part of the Annenberg group as was Obama!
And I see arguing with a fool, such as yourself is something I like to do late at night when I have HOURS to make you look even dumber than you already look!



But you can have the last lying words, so then you can justify it to yourself that you won! LOLOL!

Nope, we haven't even begin the WMD discussion yet.

And I accept your surrender on the issue of 214,000 number. It won Pulitzer prize. And they do a thorough research of all news media prior to awarding Pulitzer.

Bring on the WMD discussion any time so I could kick your ass there too. Your numbers are bogus on the opt-out doctors. Politifact is a publication of Tampa Bay Times, a Florida based news media. You can't pick and choose news media and sources you like. Pulitzer prize means sometihng unless you think Pulitzer is alo a lefty organization in on the conspiracy against you.

politifact bias - Bing

 

[World Savior]

IOW, you prefer to argue from emotion than engage in factual discussion. I understand.

Because he knows he is wrong

That SCOTUS spanking hurt you a lot, I see. Good luck recovering from your painful experience in American politics.

Me personally? No... I've been lucky. But I work in the healthcare industry and see the people it does hurt daily.

No, Obamacare really doesn't hurt as many people as you want to believe. Yes it's a bit expensive but regardless, it's going to help a lot of people.

Then WHY don't we hear of the people it has helped? In my area I can show you 20 or so that I personally know it has screwed. I can't find a single one that it has helped. There have been no reports in the news papers locally, that describe ANYONE who has been helped by this shit program.

I subscribe to an email list. I regularly hear bout how ACA helped people. You may not have heard of them. Let me give you plain numbers. 11 million MORE people got insurance after ACA came into play. I call that "HELP"ing the people.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Excuse me let me explain something to you.

Since the fucking government is forcing insurance companies to only offer one type of policy many perfectly good coverage plans were deemed to no longer meet minimum Obamacare requirements so now we have to pay for shit we don't need.

Men now have to pay for policies that cover maternity
Childless couples now have to pay for policies that cover pediatric dental and optometry
People that will never need drug or mental health counseling now have to pay for policies that cover those things

So by changing rules the fucking government made it impossible for people to keep their insurance if they were paying for a plan they likes that fit their needs but did not jive with what the fucking idiots in DC tell you you need

1. There are many types of plans available for you to choose from. You do not have to buy Obamacare compliant plans now. You will simply pay extra tax of $975 per year per family and buy any shitty stupid ugly moronic plan you want to buy out there.

What's that? Those plans were canceled? Yes that's a business decision made by insurance companies. Whine to the insurance companies, not to Obama.

2. Maternity coverage for me: Obamacare is like a buffet. Every go to restautants where they offer you all you can eat buffet? Yeah I do. Now, if you don't eat ice crea, at the buffet, do they give you discount? Nope. If you don't eat pork or beef, do they give you money back? Nope. If you eat only 1 piece of bread and someone else eats 4 pieced, do you get discount at the buffet? Nope. Getting the point? Probably not, so let me explain: Obamacare plans are like buffet. Don't want pregnancy coverage? Don't "eat" it. Don't want "optometry" services? Don't use it. Don't want "mental health" coverage? Don't use it. Don't want "cancer" services? Don't use it. Heck, I can go on and on and on and on and on.....and tell you that when you skep 90% of the food items on the buffet table, it does not reduce your bill one penny. You use what you need, you skip what you don't. I am not sure why you are having a hard time understanding how insurance works.

3. The government changed the rules to imrpve health care for everyone. And the government also allowed insurance companies to grandfather their plans. The old shitty simple easy plans also called fixed indemnity plans or basic fixed service fee plans are still available for people such as you. You can continue to use them.

Bottom line: You obviously don't understand insurance business. Insurance companies voluntarily made changes to their product offering s they saw fit. You do not have to buy insurance if you don't like any of the plans. And you can continue to shop for plans that offer basic services and pay cash for he rest. You will also pay the extra "tax penalty" if you don't have ACA compliant plans. That's a tax and the constitution allows government to colect taxes.

Let me know if you have any other questions/tantrums to throw at me.

It wasn't a business decision you moron

The government changed the minimum requirements by law

And if I have to pay 1000 more a year to "keep my plan" then that's Obamacare driving my premiums up which you say it doesn't do.

No matter how you spin it the if you like your plan you can keep it line was an outright lie.

Not only do you not understand anything about insurance, but you also don't understand anything about capitalism. Businesses change their product mix all the time. If it makes sense for them to keep some products, then they keep it. If not then they move on. Obama explicitly made an exception to keep grandfathered plans for insurance companies who wanted to continue them. If your insurance company discontinued it, then talk to them. Hold a conference meeting with them and demand those products back. It's not Obama's problem any more.

As far as the penalties, yes, that's legal and constitutional. It raises your cost of buying insurance in the long run just as when government imposes tariffs, gas taxes, Medicare premimums, SS contributions and so on. You should get a raise every year on your job. You should plan for cost of living increases. Inflation is a fact of life. Your rent goes up, taxes go up. Prices often go up for commodities every year. So do your taxes in some cases.

Thanks for your time.

What you don't understand is that many of the limited coverage policies would still be in effect today but because the fucking government decided to penalize people who want them then of course fewer people would have bought them so the viability of those products for insurance companies suffer so it makes no sense to keep them

It wasn't any free market force that caused those policies to disappear it was the fucking government's decision to penalize people for not buying the type of insurance they tell you to buy

It seems you're the one who doesn't understand the different between free market forces and government meddling in the free market with excessive regulation and tax penalties

Nope sir I understand very well what's on the market and what causes price hikes. You are welcome to buy those stupid shitty basic indemnity plans still available through some small companies out there. Government legislation ACA was designed to protect people. The government also provided subsidies for people who could not afford the payments.

There are companies selling non-Obamacare plans. All you have to do is buy those shitty plans, pay the tax penalty and your problem would be solved. Tax penalty is very minimal. If you had done your homework and knew what you were talking about then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can always shop around. Call an insurance agent near you. They will look up 50 companies and tell you who's offering cheapest plans for you. Buy the non-ACA plans, pay the penalty and stay out of Obamacare. Believe me, Obama doesn't give a FK if you are insured or not. It's your life and your wallet. Do as you please.

The day I take advice from you on insurance will never come.

So tell me why the fuck would anyone pay 1000 in tax fines voluntarily?

It was the intention of Obamacare do away with limited coverage plans by punishing those who would buy them with fines.

The government doesn't fine people when they want people to have choices you idiot.

It fines people to make them do what they want.

If you think Obamacare wasn;'t designed as another ham handed control mechanism then you are naive to the point of retardation.

 

[westwall]

Because he knows he is wrong

That SCOTUS spanking hurt you a lot, I see. Good luck recovering from your painful experience in American politics.

Me personally? No... I've been lucky. But I work in the healthcare industry and see the people it does hurt daily.

No, Obamacare really doesn't hurt as many people as you want to believe. Yes it's a bit expensive but regardless, it's going to help a lot of people.

Then WHY don't we hear of the people it has helped? In my area I can show you 20 or so that I personally know it has screwed. I can't find a single one that it has helped. There have been no reports in the news papers locally, that describe ANYONE who has been helped by this shit program.

I subscribe to an email list. I regularly hear bout how ACA helped people. You may not have heard of them. Let me give you plain numbers. 11 million MORE people got insurance after ACA came into play. I call that "HELP"ing the people.

Those numbers are pure bullshit too. There has been a NET gain of insured of about 5 million. The rest had insurance already. They HAD to go on obamacare because their prior insurance companies dropped their policies. In my area most of those on obamacare have to go on Medicaid. Good luck finding a doctor that takes it. In ALL of northern Nevada there is ONE dentist that accepts it. Out of a population of around 400,000 there are at least 100,000 on Medicaid. Care to guess how long it will take to get your teeth done?

That's what you morons fail to understand. Medicaid sucks. It pays for shit. If a doctor accepts Medicaid it has been calculated that he could never pay his med school loans off. The one dentist who accepts it, is old and when he retires the Medicaid people will have to travel over 9 hours to get a dentist that accepts it.

Good luck with that.

 

[World Savior]

1. There are many types of plans available for you to choose from. You do not have to buy Obamacare compliant plans now. You will simply pay extra tax of $975 per year per family and buy any shitty stupid ugly moronic plan you want to buy out there.

What's that? Those plans were canceled? Yes that's a business decision made by insurance companies. Whine to the insurance companies, not to Obama.

2. Maternity coverage for me: Obamacare is like a buffet. Every go to restautants where they offer you all you can eat buffet? Yeah I do. Now, if you don't eat ice crea, at the buffet, do they give you discount? Nope. If you don't eat pork or beef, do they give you money back? Nope. If you eat only 1 piece of bread and someone else eats 4 pieced, do you get discount at the buffet? Nope. Getting the point? Probably not, so let me explain: Obamacare plans are like buffet. Don't want pregnancy coverage? Don't "eat" it. Don't want "optometry" services? Don't use it. Don't want "mental health" coverage? Don't use it. Don't want "cancer" services? Don't use it. Heck, I can go on and on and on and on and on.....and tell you that when you skep 90% of the food items on the buffet table, it does not reduce your bill one penny. You use what you need, you skip what you don't. I am not sure why you are having a hard time understanding how insurance works.

3. The government changed the rules to imrpve health care for everyone. And the government also allowed insurance companies to grandfather their plans. The old shitty simple easy plans also called fixed indemnity plans or basic fixed service fee plans are still available for people such as you. You can continue to use them.

Bottom line: You obviously don't understand insurance business. Insurance companies voluntarily made changes to their product offering s they saw fit. You do not have to buy insurance if you don't like any of the plans. And you can continue to shop for plans that offer basic services and pay cash for he rest. You will also pay the extra "tax penalty" if you don't have ACA compliant plans. That's a tax and the constitution allows government to colect taxes.

Let me know if you have any other questions/tantrums to throw at me.

It wasn't a business decision you moron

The government changed the minimum requirements by law

And if I have to pay 1000 more a year to "keep my plan" then that's Obamacare driving my premiums up which you say it doesn't do.

No matter how you spin it the if you like your plan you can keep it line was an outright lie.

Not only do you not understand anything about insurance, but you also don't understand anything about capitalism. Businesses change their product mix all the time. If it makes sense for them to keep some products, then they keep it. If not then they move on. Obama explicitly made an exception to keep grandfathered plans for insurance companies who wanted to continue them. If your insurance company discontinued it, then talk to them. Hold a conference meeting with them and demand those products back. It's not Obama's problem any more.

As far as the penalties, yes, that's legal and constitutional. It raises your cost of buying insurance in the long run just as when government imposes tariffs, gas taxes, Medicare premimums, SS contributions and so on. You should get a raise every year on your job. You should plan for cost of living increases. Inflation is a fact of life. Your rent goes up, taxes go up. Prices often go up for commodities every year. So do your taxes in some cases.

Thanks for your time.

What you don't understand is that many of the limited coverage policies would still be in effect today but because the fucking government decided to penalize people who want them then of course fewer people would have bought them so the viability of those products for insurance companies suffer so it makes no sense to keep them

It wasn't any free market force that caused those policies to disappear it was the fucking government's decision to penalize people for not buying the type of insurance they tell you to buy

It seems you're the one who doesn't understand the different between free market forces and government meddling in the free market with excessive regulation and tax penalties

Nope sir I understand very well what's on the market and what causes price hikes. You are welcome to buy those stupid shitty basic indemnity plans still available through some small companies out there. Government legislation ACA was designed to protect people. The government also provided subsidies for people who could not afford the payments.

There are companies selling non-Obamacare plans. All you have to do is buy those shitty plans, pay the tax penalty and your problem would be solved. Tax penalty is very minimal. If you had done your homework and knew what you were talking about then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can always shop around. Call an insurance agent near you. They will look up 50 companies and tell you who's offering cheapest plans for you. Buy the non-ACA plans, pay the penalty and stay out of Obamacare. Believe me, Obama doesn't give a FK if you are insured or not. It's your life and your wallet. Do as you please.

The day I take advice from you on insurance will never come.

So tell me why the fuck would anyone pay 1000 in tax fines voluntarily?

It was the intention of Obamacare do away with limited coverage plans by punishing those who would buy them with fines.

The government doesn't fine people when they want people to have choices you idiot.

It fines people to make them do what they want.

If you think Obamacare wasn;'t designed as another ham handed control mechanism then you are naive to the point of retardation.

I am neither here to advise you about insurance nor do I care whether you buy insurance for you and your kids nor do I give a FK if you have cancer or heart disease. I have absolutely no interest in your health and well being and I couldn't give a sh*t if you were alive or dead.

Now let's discuss your points. Obamacare is the law. It mandates penatlies for those who don't have ACA compliant insurance. The plan works fine for most people. You don't like ACA plans. So don't buy them. Neither i nor Obama give a FK as to whether you have insurance or you are dying from some serious ailments.

Government imposes a fine on those who do not have ACA plans because they are a burden on society. They are at a risk of freeloading in the hospitals due to lack of proper insurance. Government has provided enough choices for people who want to buy insurance.

Again, you don't have to buy insurance. You can suffer and die a painful death if you wish. That is your choice, not mine. You seem to be angry about not having the same choices you had 3 years ago. I told you there are old shitty plans still available in the market. And if you don't like those either, then you are free to remain uninsured.

You can demand products from your insurance companies and ask them to bring them back. Corporations listen to their customers. You ask them to bring those plans back. This is a matter between you and your insurance provider. It does not involve me nor Obama.

Again, we don't care what you decide to do with your insurance options. ACA is legal, constitutional the tax penalties are constitutional and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed. I am sorry you couldn't find any insurance that's affordable and likable for you. I am not here to teach you nor help you but only to tell you that you should seek guidance from the industry experts or call your friends and family who may be able to advise you.

 

[paddymurphy]

Remember the "If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance" lie? Well, starting last week, tens of thousands of small business owners are about to get hit with $100 per day / per employee fines for helping their employees pay for their private insurance! That's $36,500 for each person they try to help! It's very simple. The government wants everyone on Obamacare... and dependent on the government. So the IRS will now levy a $100 per day, per employee fine on any employer who helps their employees pay the cost of their private healthcare insurance. 10 employees? That's...

Employer Health Care Arrangements

You just don't understand your own bullshit so let me explain to you.

Yes you can keep your plan if you like it. It means if your insurance company sells the same plan known as grandfathered plan then you can keep it. If they don't keep the same plan going then you can't buy it.

Many insurance companies discontinued their legacy plans because they did not want to remain in the old system. This was not government's fault. This was the fault of insurance companies. There are companies that still offer watered down old non compliant plans you can buy. All you have to do is pay a fine and use the old shitty plans if you like them.

And no, the government doesn't give a FK if you enroll in Obamacare. You can pay a fine and stay out of Obamacare for all we care. No one really cares if you have insurance or not. Heck, I prefer you stay out of Obamacare so that my lines at the doctors' will be smaller.

I want all republicans to stay out of insurance plans and pay cash or get sick and die from your own health ailments. We absolutely have no problem with you rejected quality healthcare for yourself. I don't want to see you guys at the doctors.

Keep paying cash or go to Panama and Costa Rica to get hip replacement. We don't mind. Pay the fine to IRS and stay out of the OBAMACARE system if you hate it so much.

Unless you were a 1% I see NO INSURANCE co. with grandfathered in policies! Funny, we want you to just go away, anyway possible!...And since when is a FINE now a TAX not voted on by Congress, as the ONLY place a tax can be mandated is by Congress... another example of the administration making presentations before SCOTUS that it WASN'T A FUCKING TAX, and SCOTUS doing LEGISLATION from the bench, changing what law CONGRESS had approved...You're a fucking nutcase, but easy to bitch slap with a little truth!

It's not a fine, it's a tax. You can call it whatever you want. It's not a penalty it's a fee. It's not an offspring, it's a child. It's not a baby, it's our son. Call it whatever you want. The law says you have a different tax bracket if you don't have ACA plans.

OK I will give you another break. IRS is not going to collect fines from you. They haven't and they will more than likely not pursue anyone for ACA mandate fines. OK?

Now will you stay out of the Obamacare plans? It's obvious you don't like it. I hope ALL those opposed to ACA remain uninsured. We don't mind if you get your healthcare in Haiti or Guatemala. I am happy to live without you being a part of our healthcare system.

You should elect a republican president, keep the congress in reps' hands and then try to overturn the laws you hate. Good luck trying to unenroll 10 million Americans insured specifically under Obamacare. And I dare you to tell Americans prior to election that you will take away their healthcare.

Go for it and show me you can still win elections.

As stated previously, and which you can't deny HONESTLY, it was presented as a FINE OR PENALTY by the administration, which is plainly Unconstitutional, and CHANGED to a TAX by Roberts court, which is also plainly UNCONSTITUTIONAL, making LEGISLATION from the bench.

What might be of interest is that 13% of the people in America took part in the American Revolution, there will be much more on the second one, if this shit continues!

The penalty was put in the internal revenue code. That code was amended to provide for these penalties for not having insurance. If you were too fucking stupid to understand that a penalty imposed by amending the tax code was a tax, then you are too fucking stupid to walk around free.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It wasn't a business decision you moron

The government changed the minimum requirements by law

And if I have to pay 1000 more a year to "keep my plan" then that's Obamacare driving my premiums up which you say it doesn't do.

No matter how you spin it the if you like your plan you can keep it line was an outright lie.

Not only do you not understand anything about insurance, but you also don't understand anything about capitalism. Businesses change their product mix all the time. If it makes sense for them to keep some products, then they keep it. If not then they move on. Obama explicitly made an exception to keep grandfathered plans for insurance companies who wanted to continue them. If your insurance company discontinued it, then talk to them. Hold a conference meeting with them and demand those products back. It's not Obama's problem any more.

As far as the penalties, yes, that's legal and constitutional. It raises your cost of buying insurance in the long run just as when government imposes tariffs, gas taxes, Medicare premimums, SS contributions and so on. You should get a raise every year on your job. You should plan for cost of living increases. Inflation is a fact of life. Your rent goes up, taxes go up. Prices often go up for commodities every year. So do your taxes in some cases.

Thanks for your time.

What you don't understand is that many of the limited coverage policies would still be in effect today but because the fucking government decided to penalize people who want them then of course fewer people would have bought them so the viability of those products for insurance companies suffer so it makes no sense to keep them

It wasn't any free market force that caused those policies to disappear it was the fucking government's decision to penalize people for not buying the type of insurance they tell you to buy

It seems you're the one who doesn't understand the different between free market forces and government meddling in the free market with excessive regulation and tax penalties

Nope sir I understand very well what's on the market and what causes price hikes. You are welcome to buy those stupid shitty basic indemnity plans still available through some small companies out there. Government legislation ACA was designed to protect people. The government also provided subsidies for people who could not afford the payments.

There are companies selling non-Obamacare plans. All you have to do is buy those shitty plans, pay the tax penalty and your problem would be solved. Tax penalty is very minimal. If you had done your homework and knew what you were talking about then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can always shop around. Call an insurance agent near you. They will look up 50 companies and tell you who's offering cheapest plans for you. Buy the non-ACA plans, pay the penalty and stay out of Obamacare. Believe me, Obama doesn't give a FK if you are insured or not. It's your life and your wallet. Do as you please.

The day I take advice from you on insurance will never come.

So tell me why the fuck would anyone pay 1000 in tax fines voluntarily?

It was the intention of Obamacare do away with limited coverage plans by punishing those who would buy them with fines.

The government doesn't fine people when they want people to have choices you idiot.

It fines people to make them do what they want.

If you think Obamacare wasn;'t designed as another ham handed control mechanism then you are naive to the point of retardation.

I am neither here to advise you about insurance nor do I care whether you buy insurance for you and your kids nor do I give a FK if you have cancer or heart disease. I have absolutely no interest in your health and well being and I couldn't give a sh*t if you were alive or dead.

Now let's discuss your points. Obamacare is the law. It mandates penatlies for those who don't have ACA compliant insurance. The plan works fine for most people. You don't like ACA plans. So don't buy them. Neither i nor Obama give a FK as to whether you have insurance or you are dying from some serious ailments.

Government imposes a fine on those who do not have ACA plans because they are a burden on society. They are at a risk of freeloading in the hospitals due to lack of proper insurance. Government has provided enough choices for people who want to buy insurance.

Again, you don't have to buy insurance. You can suffer and die a painful death if you wish. That is your choice, not mine. You seem to be angry about not having the same choices you had 3 years ago. I told you there are old shitty plans still available in the market. And if you don't like those either, then you are free to remain uninsured.

You can demand products from your insurance companies and ask them to bring them back. Corporations listen to their customers. You ask them to bring those plans back. This is a matter between you and your insurance provider. It does not involve me nor Obama.

Again, we don't care what you decide to do with your insurance options. ACA is legal, constitutional the tax penalties are constitutional and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed. I am sorry you couldn't find any insurance that's affordable and likable for you. I am not here to teach you nor help you but only to tell you that you should seek guidance from the industry experts or call your friends and family who may be able to advise you.

I don't need anyone's advice.

Nor do I need to pay for shit I have no use for

Why the fuck am I forced to pay for a policy that covers drug counseling or mental health counseling?

I have never needed either and will not in the future

Why the fuck should I have to pay for a policy that covers pediatric dentistry and optometry when I don't have kids

Why the fuck should I have to pay for maternity coverage when I am not a woman?

If I don't want to pay for it as you say I will be fined the fine is more than what I would save

But it should be my fucking choice how much insurance I have not some fucking idiot in Washington

I don't expect you to understand since sheep like you rarely think for themselves.

 

[hadit]

Did you actually read the language of the law? You cut the sentence short. It says, "an Exchange established by the State under 1311" (emphasis mine). Go back and read section 1311, then explain how it applies to the federal government. If you DO read it, you'll understand why the justices had to say things like "Congress didn't really mean what was written".

No, I didn't read the full text of the law nor am I going to read it to debate this issue with an internet troll on a public forum.

I am happy to enjoy the SCOTUS verdict and y ou are free to enjoy your butthurt as much as you like. Your choice.

IOW, you prefer to argue from emotion than engage in factual discussion. I understand.

Not really. If you wish to ignore the SCOTUS verdict and what it means, then you keep on reading the law for several more years as much time as you've got left on this planet.

My point is I've read enough about the law to know that "established by the state" can be interpreted as established by noe of the 50 states or established by the federal government. We often use the word state interchangeably in real life.

But I am so happy you read the law and are so educated about the stature. One question: Are you enrolled in health care plan right now? Is it ACA compliant? In other words, are you a hypocrite? Or are you uninsured and financially exposed?

LOL!

Nice try, attempting to make this about me. Here's a clue, it's not. Yes, I read the applicable part of the law. It clearly defines what an exchange is, and it clearly defines it in this context as something a state sets up, not the federal government. Thus, you don't get to march around flapping about "established by the state" when that's not what the law says. It says "established by the State under 1311". That means something that you don't want it to mean, mainly that you don't get to interpret "established by the state" any way you want to. Like I said, if you prefer to argue from emotion and not fact, feel free to do so. Just don't expect to get any credibility for doing so.

The word state can mean the federal government or government in general. Sorry the SCOTUS spanked you. But that's no reason for me to gloat about. I am not trying to debate this issue and paint you as a loser.

I only feel sorry for the obama haters because they will sabotage any law to hurt Obama. It's like sinking a ship with your own family on it because you want to kill your enemy onboard the same boat.

Somehow you people think that voters will support you for denying health care to them. Good thinking, let's wait and see what the electorate has to say in 2016.;

Not when it's qualified by "under 1311". If I tell my grandson, "I will take you to get candy after school", is he right to think I'm going to take him before school? Even a child understands qualifying language. In this case, "state exchange" is qualified under section 1311. If you don't read section 1311, you're just making it whatever you want to make it and you continue to argue from emotion.

 

[hadit]

Extreme insurance cost increases should surprise precisely no one. You can't load up an industry with very expensive new regulations and expect no price increases. Obama's claim that a family would see more than $2,000/year in savings was yet another lie about the whole mess.

Not to mention the insurance companies underestimated how much this was going to cost. See BCBS who is planning a huge increase in premiums ( as well as eliminating jobs I. The US and outsourcing) because they are losing money.

The thing is, I don't think they underestimated anything. I think they KNEW what the cost increases were going to be, and Obama planned on massive influxes of young, healthy people clamoring to pay high prices for insurance that would cover them, hence the mandate that you have to buy expensive health insurance.

 

[hadit]

No, I didn't read the full text of the law nor am I going to read it to debate this issue with an internet troll on a public forum.

I am happy to enjoy the SCOTUS verdict and y ou are free to enjoy your butthurt as much as you like. Your choice.

IOW, you prefer to argue from emotion than engage in factual discussion. I understand.

Because he knows he is wrong

That SCOTUS spanking hurt you a lot, I see. Good luck recovering from your painful experience in American politics.

Me personally? No... I've been lucky. But I work in the healthcare industry and see the people it does hurt daily.

No, Obamacare really doesn't hurt as many people as you want to believe. Yes it's a bit expensive but regardless, it's going to help a lot of people.

A bit expensive? What do you think the disagreement over the subsidies is all about? It's far TOO expensive for most people to afford without the government spending tax dollars to help them. IOW, it can't sustain itself.