Universal background checks

[Tech_Esq]

You screw up because you blab about stuff you don't understand and I should apologize? No, I don't think so.

Clearly, I understand it better than you as is demonstrated in the thread. You didn't even understand databases were used in background checks, so what do you know?

At any rate, have fun with the rest of the thread. i'll be back next week for more fun and games.

 

[KissMy]

If I'm a felon with a gun to sell why would I care who I sold it to?

The crazy felons still get guns because having dealers alone doing background checks on new purchases has had little effect on criminals ability to get a gun. If everyone is able check to make sure they don't accidentally sell or give a gun to someone on that list or they will get in trouble, it has a chance of enforcement. We the people have to keep an eye out for the violators or it will never work just like now. We may as well do away with gun dealer background checks all together.

We the people prefer to let other people alone to having the government intrude on everything we do. The fact that you think otherwise proves you are not part of the people, you are part of the hive.

92% of the people want background check's on every sale. With that kind of support something big is going to happen. You can either stand around & cry while they take inventory & compile list of who has what weapons or you can shape the legislation & tell congress to make list of bad guys & leave us good guys the fuck alone. The bad guy list may actually reduce these shootings & take the pressure off of us good gun owners. At least they can focus on the bad guys instead of turning good gun owners into criminals with more stupid gun laws.

 

[Missourian]

I'm wading in a little late in the game, but I think the reason the database is restricted is a privacy issue...so just anyone couldn't perform a background check by simply picking up the phone and saying, I've got joe blow here, I'm selling him a firearm.

 

[The Rabbi]

You screw up because you blab about stuff you don't understand and I should apologize? No, I don't think so.

Clearly, I understand it better than you as is demonstrated in the thread. You didn't even understand databases were used in background checks, so what do you know?

At any rate, have fun with the rest of the thread. i'll be back next week for more fun and games.

I am a firearms dealer. I understand very well how the system works. You have no idea, so spout nonsense. Now you try to deflect, after I've pointed out you are ignorant of this matter and you lie about your own posts.
Don't hurry back.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ultimately, they just want to take your guns. I don't care what they say. All of these half-steps are just a stop on the road to confiscation. So, I don't try to spend too much time trying to untangle their convoluted knots.

But, for law abiding citizens who wish (again it's optional) do a background check to make sure the person they are selling to is not on the bad guy list, the same list that dealers check should be available to private owners for a nominal fee.

There is no "list" that dealers check. I'm a dealer, so I know.

There is a database right? A database is just a fancy list. I'm a computer guy, so I know.

Not that simple.

There are multiple databases, and it is pretty easy for a person with a name similar to a criminal, or for a victim of identity theft, to come back with a false positive. That is why there is so much criticism of the no fly list, with is completely arbitrary, and not subject to review.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's not too easy and you have to pay a transfer fee.

Would the government making a list mean you aren't going to have to pay for it? Are you really that confused about economics?

I don't want anything substantial that doesn't already exist. In Virginia, and I realize we've led the way in non-intrusive checks, there is a database and has been since 1989. We started doing instant background checks back then. There is not waiting period or anything like that in VA. They check you and you walk out of the store with your gun. After VA Tech, they included people that had been adjudicated mentally unstable in the database. You may do it differently elsewhere, that's the way we do it here.

All I think is they should have a web front end and a web app for private people who wish to use the system. I really don't get the issue. Is it 100%? nope, and I don't want it to be because that's UBC or guns registration by any other name. I want it to be available and optional. If I want to give my gun to my son, would I use it, no. I know him. I know what he's been up to. But, if I wanna sell my gun to the guy that lives around the corner, I'd wanna check him out because I don't really know him that well. Yes, I could take the both of us down to some gun dealer 10 miles away and pay the dealer a transfer fee and all that BS, but why? How about I go to my computer, log in to the State background check system, put dude's info in there and let it tell me if I should sell or not? Then just complete the transaction without leaving the comfort of my home.

Now, as long as we're talking about it, I'd like to add a few things like mandatory destruction of all records for guns (what is it now, you have to keep them 20 years?) let's destroy them when they hit 7 years. Also, any trace left by the background check must be purged from the system within 6 months. If you haven't figured out you have a problem in less time than that, tough.

Why should they do that? What if I decided to run my neighbor's name even though he wasn't buying a gun from me? Wouldn't that violate his right to privacy under state laws? Should the state be liable for those things?

The main reason that these things are not available to everyone is that it is way too easy to misuse the information.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I'm wading in a little late in the game, but I think the reason the database is restricted is a privacy issue...so just anyone couldn't pick up the phone and perform a background check by simply picking up the phone and saying, I've got joe blow here, I'm selling him a firearm.

Correct.

Which is why ‘universal’ background checks simply aren’t feasible, and why background checks aren’t required by Federal law for intrastate private sales.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The crazy felons still get guns because having dealers alone doing background checks on new purchases has had little effect on criminals ability to get a gun. If everyone is able check to make sure they don't accidentally sell or give a gun to someone on that list or they will get in trouble, it has a chance of enforcement. We the people have to keep an eye out for the violators or it will never work just like now. We may as well do away with gun dealer background checks all together.

We the people prefer to let other people alone to having the government intrude on everything we do. The fact that you think otherwise proves you are not part of the people, you are part of the hive.

92% of the people want background check's on every sale. With that kind of support something big is going to happen. You can either stand around & cry while they take inventory & compile list of who has what weapons or you can shape the legislation & tell congress to make list of bad guys & leave us good guys the fuck alone. The bad guy list may actually reduce these shootings & take the pressure off of us good gun owners. At least they can focus on the bad guys instead of turning good gun owners into criminals with more stupid gun laws.

The same poll reports that 43% opposes stricter gun control measures, which would include the universal background checks that 92% supposedly support. That would lead an honest person to wonder exactly how they achieved those results.

!SPOILER ALERT!

If you are a hack you can stop reading here.

It turns out they were not asked about universal background checks, they were simply asked if they think all gun buyers should have a background check. Since that is already the way things work they are actually just going for what we already do, not opting to force everyone who sells a gun to clear the sale through a government approved program.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm wading in a little late in the game, but I think the reason the database is restricted is a privacy issue...so just anyone couldn't pick up the phone and perform a background check by simply picking up the phone and saying, I've got joe blow here, I'm selling him a firearm.

Correct.

Which is why ‘universal’ background checks simply aren’t feasible, and why background checks aren’t required by Federal law for intrastate private sales.

Not to mention that SCOTUS specifically said congress does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to require them.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I'm wading in a little late in the game, but I think the reason the database is restricted is a privacy issue...so just anyone couldn't perform a background check by simply picking up the phone and saying, I've got joe blow here, I'm selling him a firearm.

But you can do a records check on anyone you want...As long as you are willing to pay for it.....

 

[KissMy]

We the people prefer to let other people alone to having the government intrude on everything we do. The fact that you think otherwise proves you are not part of the people, you are part of the hive.

92% of the people want background check's on every sale. With that kind of support something big is going to happen. You can either stand around & cry while they take inventory & compile list of who has what weapons or you can shape the legislation & tell congress to make list of bad guys & leave us good guys the fuck alone. The bad guy list may actually reduce these shootings & take the pressure off of us good gun owners. At least they can focus on the bad guys instead of turning good gun owners into criminals with more stupid gun laws.

The same poll reports that 43% opposes stricter gun control measures, which would include the universal background checks that 92% supposedly support. That would lead an honest person to wonder exactly how they achieved those results.

!SPOILER ALERT!

If you are a hack you can stop reading here.

It turns out they were not asked about universal background checks, they were simply asked if they think all gun buyers should have a background check. Since that is already the way things work they are actually just going for what we already do, not opting to force everyone who sells a gun to clear the sale through a government approved program.

The poll says "all gun buyers", not just sales through gun dealers as we have now. That means closing all loopholes & forcing all transactions through a FFL dealer & creating a paper trail of gun owners.

The idea of a public bad guy list is to keep the government out of the transaction. If your buyer is not on the list, sell him your gun. That way there is no paper trail. The current system would not have stopped the Newtown school shooting even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun since he never bought them. With a public list friends, family & the gun range that he went to practice at would have been alerted that he was breaking the law.

 

[The Rabbi]

92% of the people want background check's on every sale. With that kind of support something big is going to happen. You can either stand around & cry while they take inventory & compile list of who has what weapons or you can shape the legislation & tell congress to make list of bad guys & leave us good guys the fuck alone. The bad guy list may actually reduce these shootings & take the pressure off of us good gun owners. At least they can focus on the bad guys instead of turning good gun owners into criminals with more stupid gun laws.

The same poll reports that 43% opposes stricter gun control measures, which would include the universal background checks that 92% supposedly support. That would lead an honest person to wonder exactly how they achieved those results.

!SPOILER ALERT!

If you are a hack you can stop reading here.

It turns out they were not asked about universal background checks, they were simply asked if they think all gun buyers should have a background check. Since that is already the way things work they are actually just going for what we already do, not opting to force everyone who sells a gun to clear the sale through a government approved program.

The poll says "all gun buyers", not just sales through gun dealers as we have now. That means closing all loopholes & forcing all transactions through a FFL dealer & creating a paper trail of gun owners.

The idea of a public bad guy list is to keep the government out of the transaction. If your buyer is not on the list, sell him your gun. That way there is no paper trail. The current system would not have stopped the Newtown school shooting even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun since he never bought them. With a public list friends, family & the gun range that he went to practice at would have been alerted that he was breaking the law.

How was he breaking the law? Adam Lanza was not a prohibited person until he killed his mother.
It would have done nothing to stop the Newtown killings. It would have done nothing to stop the Va Tech killings. It would have done nothing to stop the AZ killings/wounding of Giffords. It would have done nothing to stop the Aurora theater shooting. And it would do nothing to stop the thug on thug or thug on honest person crimes that happen every day.
In short, it would not stop any crime at all.

 

[KissMy]

The same poll reports that 43% opposes stricter gun control measures, which would include the universal background checks that 92% supposedly support. That would lead an honest person to wonder exactly how they achieved those results.

!SPOILER ALERT!

If you are a hack you can stop reading here.

It turns out they were not asked about universal background checks, they were simply asked if they think all gun buyers should have a background check. Since that is already the way things work they are actually just going for what we already do, not opting to force everyone who sells a gun to clear the sale through a government approved program.

The poll says "all gun buyers", not just sales through gun dealers as we have now. That means closing all loopholes & forcing all transactions through a FFL dealer & creating a paper trail of gun owners.

The idea of a public bad guy list is to keep the government out of the transaction. If your buyer is not on the list, sell him your gun. That way there is no paper trail. The current system would not have stopped the Newtown school shooting even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun since he never bought them. With a public list friends, family & the gun range that he went to practice at would have been alerted that he was breaking the law.

How was he breaking the law? Adam Lanza was not a prohibited person until he killed his mother.
It would have done nothing to stop the Newtown killings. It would have done nothing to stop the Va Tech killings. It would have done nothing to stop the AZ killings/wounding of Giffords. It would have done nothing to stop the Aurora theater shooting. And it would do nothing to stop the thug on thug or thug on honest person crimes that happen every day.
In short, it would not stop any crime at all.

Can't you read? I said "even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun"

The current system is listing all of us gun buyers for the government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

92% of the people want background check's on every sale. With that kind of support something big is going to happen. You can either stand around & cry while they take inventory & compile list of who has what weapons or you can shape the legislation & tell congress to make list of bad guys & leave us good guys the fuck alone. The bad guy list may actually reduce these shootings & take the pressure off of us good gun owners. At least they can focus on the bad guys instead of turning good gun owners into criminals with more stupid gun laws.

The same poll reports that 43% opposes stricter gun control measures, which would include the universal background checks that 92% supposedly support. That would lead an honest person to wonder exactly how they achieved those results.

!SPOILER ALERT!

If you are a hack you can stop reading here.

It turns out they were not asked about universal background checks, they were simply asked if they think all gun buyers should have a background check. Since that is already the way things work they are actually just going for what we already do, not opting to force everyone who sells a gun to clear the sale through a government approved program.

The poll says "all gun buyers", not just sales through gun dealers as we have now. That means closing all loopholes & forcing all transactions through a FFL dealer & creating a paper trail of gun owners.

The idea of a public bad guy list is to keep the government out of the transaction. If your buyer is not on the list, sell him your gun. That way there is no paper trail. The current system would not have stopped the Newtown school shooting even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun since he never bought them. With a public list friends, family & the gun range that he went to practice at would have been alerted that he was breaking the law.

People keep spreading the lie that most gun buyers don't have to go through a background check. Explain the facts and people suddenly understand how stupid a question like that is.

 

[PaulS1950]

From AmericanNews (independent pollers):

Should the federal government regulate guns of any type?
Yes........................28% (272883)
No.........................71% (681207

Should Congress ban semi-automatic weapons?
Yes........................22% (217420)
No.........................77% (743035)

If Congress does not act should President Obama use an executive order to ban or strictly control the sale of semi-automatic weapons?
Yes.........................20% (197623)
No..........................79% (761568)

Do you agree that the Second Amendment gives citizens the right to own and bear guns without infringement?
Yes..........................81% (779447)
No............................18% (180405)


Now, does that sound like most Americans want to have universal background checks?

 

[The Rabbi]

The poll says "all gun buyers", not just sales through gun dealers as we have now. That means closing all loopholes & forcing all transactions through a FFL dealer & creating a paper trail of gun owners.

The idea of a public bad guy list is to keep the government out of the transaction. If your buyer is not on the list, sell him your gun. That way there is no paper trail. The current system would not have stopped the Newtown school shooting even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun since he never bought them. With a public list friends, family & the gun range that he went to practice at would have been alerted that he was breaking the law.

How was he breaking the law? Adam Lanza was not a prohibited person until he killed his mother.
It would have done nothing to stop the Newtown killings. It would have done nothing to stop the Va Tech killings. It would have done nothing to stop the AZ killings/wounding of Giffords. It would have done nothing to stop the Aurora theater shooting. And it would do nothing to stop the thug on thug or thug on honest person crimes that happen every day.
In short, it would not stop any crime at all.

Can't you read? I said "even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun"

The current system is listing all of us gun buyers for the government.

But he didnt and he wasn't. He could have bought a gun any time he wanted. In fact actually went to do that but was stymied by CT's 14 day waiting period. The waiting period stopped him, right? No. He simply stole the guns and killed his mother. Arguably the waiting period killed his mother. Gun control kills, not guns.

 

[Underhill]

From AmericanNews (independent pollers):

Should the federal government regulate guns of any type?
Yes........................28% (272883)
No.........................71% (681207

Should Congress ban semi-automatic weapons?
Yes........................22% (217420)
No.........................77% (743035)

If Congress does not act should President Obama use an executive order to ban or strictly control the sale of semi-automatic weapons?
Yes.........................20% (197623)
No..........................79% (761568)

Do you agree that the Second Amendment gives citizens the right to own and bear guns without infringement?
Yes..........................81% (779447)
No............................18% (180405)


Now, does that sound like most Americans want to have universal background checks?

Every other poll I've seen says they do. I think most Americans don't think the background check as a infringement or even strict control. I sure as hell don't.

 

[Underhill]

I don't think the names on the list should be made available, but I do think that if I want to sell my gun to someone, I should have the option of checking the list.

yep, especially if that is the loophole we are allegedly trying to close. so are we ready to start creating siuch lists and making them public? I mean, that is what anti gun liberals are really suggesting

Ultimately, they just want to take your guns. I don't care what they say. All of these half-steps are just a stop on the road to confiscation. So, I don't try to spend too much time trying to untangle their convoluted knots.

Who is this they? It's a representative democracy. And very few people, even democrats, want to take all your guns.

It would take the majority of Americans turning against gun owners. And since the majority of Americans are gun owners..... how likely is that?

 

[KissMy]

The same poll reports that 43% opposes stricter gun control measures, which would include the universal background checks that 92% supposedly support. That would lead an honest person to wonder exactly how they achieved those results.

!SPOILER ALERT!

If you are a hack you can stop reading here.

It turns out they were not asked about universal background checks, they were simply asked if they think all gun buyers should have a background check. Since that is already the way things work they are actually just going for what we already do, not opting to force everyone who sells a gun to clear the sale through a government approved program.

The poll says "all gun buyers", not just sales through gun dealers as we have now. That means closing all loopholes & forcing all transactions through a FFL dealer & creating a paper trail of gun owners.

The idea of a public bad guy list is to keep the government out of the transaction. If your buyer is not on the list, sell him your gun. That way there is no paper trail. The current system would not have stopped the Newtown school shooting even if Adam Lanza was banned from buying a gun since he never bought them. With a public list friends, family & the gun range that he went to practice at would have been alerted that he was breaking the law.

People keep spreading the lie that most gun buyers don't have to go through a background check. Explain the facts and people suddenly understand how stupid a question like that is.

Apparently not - Paul Ryan Caves On Universal Background Checks

It's time we shape this to violate the criminals civil rights instead of having government registering all of us good legal gun owners. Once we are registered then comes gun insurance, gun taxed & gun confiscation. We need to get rid of this current registration & background system & publicize a list of bad guys.

If we fail to lead on this, they are controlling the game & we will lose. They keep chipping away at gun rights piece by piece. We need to force them chip away at criminals, restore our 2nd amendment & leave us the hell alone. The problem is you guys are followers & not leaders.

 

[The Rabbi]

There is no "list of bad guys." That's not how this works. And any such list will be so flawed as to be unusable.