Unions Win....GM Leaving Detroit?

[Tech_Esq]

Is this the result Sealy was expecting when he and his compatriots in Michigan urged the UAW not to give in to corporate demands?

GM CEO: Bankruptcy Likely; Firm May Leave Detroit

General Motors is open to considering moving its headquarters from Detroit, selling off U.S. plants and even renegotiating parts of its restructuring plan with its major union, the new chief executive said Monday.

Sounds like the death rattle of a company destroyed by the unions.

 

[KittenKoder]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

 

[Tech_Esq]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

I don't know what the standard lines of GM cars were like over the last 15 years. I owned 3 Saturns in that time. I thought they were great cars. I never had a lick of mechanical trouble with them. My last one I drove 163,000 miles and it was still good to go. That car got 34 MPG in typical driving conditions and 42+ on the highway.

By contrast, I now have a Honda and I've had to replace a wheel bearing, a belt tensioner and coil on. Not to mention brakes, tires, plugs etc. but I don't count those against it.

So, I think GM was making at least some decent cars.

It sounds like you are saying capitalism as short hand for companies that focused on the short term profitability of their companies at the expense of long term viability. Is that a fair statement?

 

[KittenKoder]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

I don't know what the standard lines of GM cars were like over the last 15 years. I owned 3 Saturns in that time. I thought they were great cars. I never had a lick of mechanical trouble with them. My last one I drove 163,000 miles and it was still good to go. That car got 34 MPG in typical driving conditions and 42+ on the highway.

By contrast, I now have a Honda and I've had to replace a wheel bearing, a belt tensioner and coil on. Not to mention brakes, tires, plugs etc. but I don't count those against it.

So, I think GM was making at least some decent cars.

It sounds like you are saying capitalism as short hand for companies that focused on the short term profitability of their companies at the expense of long term viability. Is that a fair statement?

If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.

 

[Tech_Esq]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

I don't know what the standard lines of GM cars were like over the last 15 years. I owned 3 Saturns in that time. I thought they were great cars. I never had a lick of mechanical trouble with them. My last one I drove 163,000 miles and it was still good to go. That car got 34 MPG in typical driving conditions and 42+ on the highway.

By contrast, I now have a Honda and I've had to replace a wheel bearing, a belt tensioner and coil on. Not to mention brakes, tires, plugs etc. but I don't count those against it.

So, I think GM was making at least some decent cars.

It sounds like you are saying capitalism as short hand for companies that focused on the short term profitability of their companies at the expense of long term viability. Is that a fair statement?

If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.

I didn't say it was well run. I think the evidence on that is to the contrary.

What I'm unclear on is whether, after the Wagner act, there is any other logical eventual outcome than what happened at GM if labor is organized at any given company.

 

[KittenKoder]

I don't know what the standard lines of GM cars were like over the last 15 years. I owned 3 Saturns in that time. I thought they were great cars. I never had a lick of mechanical trouble with them. My last one I drove 163,000 miles and it was still good to go. That car got 34 MPG in typical driving conditions and 42+ on the highway.

By contrast, I now have a Honda and I've had to replace a wheel bearing, a belt tensioner and coil on. Not to mention brakes, tires, plugs etc. but I don't count those against it.

So, I think GM was making at least some decent cars.

It sounds like you are saying capitalism as short hand for companies that focused on the short term profitability of their companies at the expense of long term viability. Is that a fair statement?

If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.

I didn't say it was well run. I think the evidence on that is to the contrary.

What I'm unclear on is whether, after the Wagner act, there is any other logical eventual outcome than what happened at GM if labor is organized at any given company.

Meh, I don't like unions, but when companies blame them all the time it's just whining ... it's like how the current president always blames the last one for every problem instead of fixing them.

 

[manu1959]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

I don't know what the standard lines of GM cars were like over the last 15 years. I owned 3 Saturns in that time. I thought they were great cars. I never had a lick of mechanical trouble with them. My last one I drove 163,000 miles and it was still good to go. That car got 34 MPG in typical driving conditions and 42+ on the highway.

By contrast, I now have a Honda and I've had to replace a wheel bearing, a belt tensioner and coil on. Not to mention brakes, tires, plugs etc. but I don't count those against it.

So, I think GM was making at least some decent cars.

It sounds like you are saying capitalism as short hand for companies that focused on the short term profitability of their companies at the expense of long term viability. Is that a fair statement?

If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.

i would say opel, cadillac, holden, vauxhaul, corvette saab, saturn and gmc are good products.....as for being well run.....life time health care and pensions are quite an economic burden.....

 

[Tech_Esq]

If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.

I didn't say it was well run. I think the evidence on that is to the contrary.

What I'm unclear on is whether, after the Wagner act, there is any other logical eventual outcome than what happened at GM if labor is organized at any given company.

Meh, I don't like unions, but when companies blame them all the time it's just whining ... it's like how the current president always blames the last one for every problem instead of fixing them.

I definitely don't think they are the only problem. If they were, Ford wouldn't have been able to fix itself so it wasn't in the same position as GM and Chrysler. Having said that, labor is always the largest cost of doing the job (union or not) so any issues with labor prices are bound to be magnified.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

GM is in trouble, IMO, because both management and the unions plundered the company, management felt the brand was immortal, and management was insular, slow moving and, basically, asleep at the helm for decades. Political parties tend to do the same thing when they get comfortable. Pox on all of them.

 

[auditor0007]

For the most part, GM currently produces some very good vehicles. One of the big problems in the auto industry is that reputations die hard. Honda and Toyota built great reputations, and they are living off of those reputations, Toyota in particular. Toyota's product has become stagnant, and I think this is beginning to catch up with them.

The funny thing is that Saturn built itself a bad name. Now, however, Saturn may actually be the best division GM has, although the sales are not there because once again, old reputations die hard. GM as a whole built itself a bad name. Changing perceptions is not an easy task.

The one good thing going for all of these auto manufacturers is that pretty soon, people are going to have to begin buying new cars again. The old ones only last so long, and over the last couple of years, people have been holding off on purchasing new. This will change, and it will help. The question is how to get these companies through this cycle so that they are still here in some form five years from now.

 

[sealybobo]

Is this the result Sealy was expecting when he and his compatriots in Michigan urged the UAW not to give in to corporate demands?

GM CEO: Bankruptcy Likely; Firm May Leave Detroit

General Motors is open to considering moving its headquarters from Detroit, selling off U.S. plants and even renegotiating parts of its restructuring plan with its major union, the new chief executive said Monday.

Sounds like the death rattle of a company destroyed by the unions.

No. We are pissed. Basically, we are subsodizing GM while they move jobs overseas.

How many non union companies have gone bankrupt and/or overseas? Answer, "way too many for you to be blaming GM's woes on the union."

And look at how companies like AIG or Enron were collapsing and they gave their executives big bonus'. The unions said, "if you are going to give yourselves big bonus', then you have to give us bonus' too."

Do corporations hate that? Of course they do. So now that you have helped corporations fuck labor, just wait and see what happens to you dumb asses.

My buddy at work's wife is a recruiter. She just took a $10K hit on her salary. 3 people were let go. She's not in a union. She should be. Sucker.

So Toyota & Honda will eventually move jobs overseas too, because Southern workers cost too much too. Just the healthcare along is making Toyota and Honda less competitive and more expensive.

We really should take that problem off their plate.

 

[sealybobo]

How many of these companies are unionized you dumb fuckers

Here is a list of companies we've confirmed are "Exporting America." These are U.S. companies either sending American jobs overseas, or choosing to employ cheap overseas labor, instead of American workers.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

How many of the jobs lost were union? A small fraction of them? I'm not ashamed to be American, I'm ashamed of my fellow Americans.

 

[Alpha1]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

She said as she sipped her Koolade, switching her TV to The Kieth Obermann Comedy Hour......

 

[Alpha1]

If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.

If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.

She said as she sipped her Koolade, switching her TV to The Cris Matthews Comedy Show......

 

[Meister]

She said as she sipped her Koolade, switching her TV to The Cris Matthews Comedy Show......

I don't know what your posts were all about, but Kitten did bring up some good points.
Myabe if you would state where she went wrong, and not just throw out some flames. I would know where your coming from.

 

[Bfgrn]

Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.

Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.

Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.

I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.
Lee Iacocca

 

[Shogun]

Let GM take their fucking ass to mexico instead of detrot. If capitalistas need pauper slaves to operate then good fucking riddance. Maybe they can sell some SUVs to some dirt poor peso loving mexicans.


bring on the tariffs.

 

[wimpy77]

Let GM take their fucking ass to mexico instead of detrot. If capitalistas need pauper slaves to operate then good fucking riddance. Maybe they can sell some SUVs to some dirt poor peso loving mexicans.


bring on the tariffs.

they dont have to go to mexico, they can move them down south so they can be with all the foreign makers.

 

[p kirkes]

On the news tonight, a local station, KTBS Channel 3, reports that GM is planning to import GM cars made in China, starting in a year or two.

I have not heard or read about such a thing, don't know where this story is attributed.

Has anyone heard of this?

 

[Seraega]

I didn't say it was well run. I think the evidence on that is to the contrary.

What I'm unclear on is whether, after the Wagner act, there is any other logical eventual outcome than what happened at GM if labor is organized at any given company.

Meh, I don't like unions, but when companies blame them all the time it's just whining ... it's like how the current president always blames the last one for every problem instead of fixing them.

I definitely don't think they are the only problem. If they were, Ford wouldn't have been able to fix itself so it wasn't in the same position as GM and Chrysler. Having said that, labor is always the largest cost of doing the job (union or not) so any issues with labor prices are bound to be magnified.

Ford isn't all that better off, they bluffed in not taking the bail out money and investors bought into it. That's why they now have enough capital to make it through 2009. Beyond that? Who knows. Their product line is probably the worst of the "big" 3. They were by far the most reliant on trucks for profit, so they better pray that their hybrid focus takes off like a rocket.