Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

[garyd]

Wrong kitt Unless you're into really funky math. first if you make less than 400 a month most of what you pay in in income tax you get back, where you get hammered is on social security and medicare. Which on my check is twice what I'm paying to IRS.

 

[RodISHI]

Many of the rich are contributing more than their share, there is no question on that....but many get more than their share out of the fruit of the labor of this country than most as well.

For a while, this country believed that the middle class and below shouldn't be taxed on their income and only the wealthy should.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

For a While the wealthiest were taxed at a 90% tax rate on their upper income and the middle class and below were not taxed at all or very little.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

At one time, 75% of the taxes collected in this country were from Coporate Taxes, which paid for the country's budget spending.

This was considered fair then. But why?

What made these kind of taxes as fair back then and why the change in attitude now? Who lobbied for the changes and did they do so on the basis of it not being fair to them?

Borrowing money to pay the basic bills is allowing those that pay these higher taxes SKIRT a huge portion of their bill.

And hits those with the least the most with the devaluing of the dollar....by giving them even less purchasing power.

It's not that people hate the wealth that some of these people have, money is something we all would not mind having alot of, I would presume. It is those that scam the system in various ways, and who use their power and influence with congress to make things better and better for themselves, with no regard to what this may directly or indirectly do to their fellow countrymen.

that bothers me....and the only reason I can come up with for them doing this to us, is greed.....the root of all evil, "The Love of money".

the wealthiest are just letting us down...in many more ways than one.

I think you take this too personally Bern.... you will probably never ever be one of those 400 wealthiest....though i wish you the best and hope you are some day!

Care

At one time the 26 top hedge fund managers were averaging $877 million dollars a year in income. They were running a Ponzi scheme that stole the life savings of hard working Americans. This is obscene.

No, the balance is off and must be shifted back to the people who's labor creates the wealth.

They still are and congress bought it with a debt that would pay off every average American's home twice over.

That was not good enough to do it once they are saying let's do it again heck worked the first time around.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not by percentage of their income. Based on the percentage paid in taxes the poor are paying the most.

the poor don't pay anything.

the bottom 40% of earners pay no income tax at all. while the top 1% pay 40% of all income tax collected.

Really ..

So then 20% of $400 a month may not be as much as 1% of 1,000,000 a month, but look at the percentage, 20% IS more than 1%. The poor are paying more of the money they work ten times harder for than the rich who are too lazy to wipe their own asses half the time and instead choose to run our country into the ground tricking poor people into spending fake money for the illusion of living decently.

really, if you pay 400 a month, you get all your income tax back via a refund.

Now the rich don't get the same social security and medicare benefits but then again the poor use those services so should they not pay for their SS and medicare benefits?

Is this all about giving people something for nothing?

and where do you get 20% vs 1%? The rich are in a higher tax bracket so use the correct percentages at least.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

scroll down to page 13 for the actual tax brackets and tell me the poor pay a higher percentage than the rich.

or at least tell me how 10% > 35% that must be the new math I wasn't taught in school

 

[Care4all]

Wrong kitt Unless you're into really funky math. first if you make less than 400 a month most of what you pay in in income tax you get back, where you get hammered is on social security and medicare. Which on my check is twice what I'm paying to IRS.

that wealthy guy or middle class guy got the same tax relief or lower tax rate as well for the first 10-20k earned because he too can take the standard/personal deductions for himself, wife and kids....etc.... no?

so all couples, no matter their final income, for the first estimated $20k or so, PAYS ZERO in income taxes.

so, what is this poor person really getting in income tax relief that you and i don't get for the first $20k or so of our family income that we make?

care

ps they are NOT getting anything we as well didn't get.

 

[Care4all]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

it's supposed to be, just like the Alternative minimum tax was supposed to hit rich people but ended up screwing the middle calss

 

[sealybobo]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

 

[Care4all]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

it's supposed to be, just like the Alternative minimum tax was supposed to hit rich people but ended up screwing the middle calss

yep.

i gotta girlfriend that got hit with $10k extra on that....about 4 years ago...

She swore to herself she was never gonna be hit with that again....

She saw a specialist CPA and has not been hit with it since....

So, if you are approaching this skull, see a cpa....

 

[sealybobo]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

No, you little *****. How about we start making more and we'll be glad to share the tax burden.

How about we bring American jobs home? You know how I know you Redumblicans are wrong? Because you never talk about the real issues. We need high wage American jobs.

It is time to stop taking care of the Investor Class and start helping the middle class, stupid.

You know why Refucklicans know the stimulous won't work? Because unemployment continues to rise. So why don't they suggest bringing jobs back home? Because they like it they way things are going. Cheap American labor, cheap foreign labor, cheap housing, cheap stocks.

Wake up Del.

 

[editec]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

 

[DiamondDave]

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

No.. it has NOTHING to do with their ideas, the risks they have taken, their effort, their commitment.... it's all just on the backs of the 'little people'

When a person creates a business and does things well, bringing a product or service that is needed or wanted, people will support it and buy the product or service.... or if a person analyzes well, makes good investment choices, etc, they will do well

But whether a person is successful, average, or fails, is of no consequence... it does not mean they 'owe' a higher percentage to 'make up for' them doing things correctly or better.. that is the feel good, 'touchy feely' makeup of the liberal left for nothing more than securing a power base

But the funny thing is if a rich person or successful high earning person pays 20%, and a poor person pays 20% (which is a system based on equality in personal burden), they higher earners will provide more in total STILL...

 

[American Horse]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

The FICA (part SS) is to provide for individual benifits after retirement. The amount paid-in during the last 40 quarters (10 years) will determine the size of the benifit, and is supposed to be on a roughly pro-rata basis for each payee.

The purpose of the EIC is, in part, to persuade people to engage in the system rather than work outside it for several reasons: to be sure they are not left destitute after they are no longer able to work; to get as many who are a part of the economy to also be a part of the taxing system; to reduce the amount of under-the table (therefore non taxed) work from being engaged in; to give every citizen a stake in the economy and the country; and others....

When People who are excluded from drawing SS benifits proportional to their payments, are being 'taxed' to provide for those who may not have paid in according to their forthcoming benifits, then the program has become less a socially responsible retirement system and has instead become a system of welfare and transfer payments and thus a welfare program. Once that happens it is vulnerable to that attack on that basis. Even the Democrats don't want that to happen, and those who see that clearly don't want the FICA to apply at income levels above which some proportional benifit will be afforded that individual paying into FICA.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

this is what i don't understand.

people who trade their labor for dollars must believe that their remuneration is worth more than the hours of their time. Or else they would not be working for that particular employer.

If they do not believe their pay is worth more than their time, they are free to find an employer or another profession that will pay them.

Employers have to please their employees just as much if not more than employees have to please their employers.

If I make and sell pots for a living, I must ask a price for that pot that I believe is worth more than the materials and labor I put into making the pot. If i merely ask for what is equal to the materials and labor then i am no better off for having made the pot. Likewise the person who buys the pot must feel he is getting more than his payment for the pot or he would be no better off for having bought the pot.

It's is the same for those who sell their labor to an employer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

No, you little *****. How about we start making more and we'll be glad to share the tax burden.

How about we bring American jobs home? You know how I know you Redumblicans are wrong? Because you never talk about the real issues. We need high wage American jobs.

It is time to stop taking care of the Investor Class and start helping the middle class, stupid.

You know why Refucklicans know the stimulous won't work? Because unemployment continues to rise. So why don't they suggest bringing jobs back home? Because they like it they way things are going. Cheap American labor, cheap foreign labor, cheap housing, cheap stocks.

Wake up Del.

I'm not Del.

You really do live in a constant state of confusion don't you Boo Boo?

 

[Care4all]

Earned income credit is for tax relief on the FICA taxes they pay, right?

And anyone making over 100k gets FICA tax relief as well, they pay none over that amount....it is us in the middle getting squeezed but not the wealthiest...no?

The FICA (part SS) is to provide for individual benifits after retirement. The amount paid-in during the last 40 quarters (10 years) will determine the size of the benifit, and is supposed to be on a roughly pro-rata basis for each payee.

The purpose of the EIC is, in part, to persuade people to engage in the system rather than work outside it for several reasons: to be sure they are not left destitute after they are no longer able to work; to get as many who are a part of the economy to also be a part of the taxing system; to reduce the amount of under-the table (therefore non taxed) work from being engaged in; to give every citizen a stake in the economy and the country; and others....

When People who are excluded from drawing SS benifits proportional to their payments, are being 'taxed' to provide for those who may not have paid in according to their forthcoming benifits, then the program has become less a socially responsible retirement system and has instead become a system of welfare and transfer payments and thus a welfare program. Once that happens it is vulnerable to that attack on that basis. Even the Democrats don't want that to happen, and those who see that clearly don't want the FICA to apply at income levels above which some proportional benifit will be afforded that individual paying into FICA.

I can understand all of that (mustang)

But if you think about it, that wouldn't be much different that what was determined Fair, with our progressive income tax structure....ya know?

And my second come back to what you said is a part, a very crucial part of the picture, which is not being discussed.

Each and every year for the past ....God knows how long, the Federal Government has included the Social Security payouts and taxes received in to the fiscal yearly budget.

And for the past 8 years we have been collecting much more in SS taxes than paying out in SS retirement Benefits....to the tune of $150 billion to $300 billion a year in SS surplus funds are being used to balance the budget. If we did not have these surplus funds in the National Budget to be used, then our income taxes would have to go up, or we would need to borrow more from China etc, to cover what our income taxes should have paid for....

So, essentially those paying SS up to the 100k who probably only pay 10% to 20% of our total income tax burden, are really paying for much much much more than that, because all of the SS surplus funds of theirs is being used for what the wealthiest should be paying, those that you all imply are paying 90% of our income taxes....

they might be paying that portion of the income taxes collected but that by NO MEANS, translates to them paying 90% of the country's total BILL/EXpenditures!!!

We are borrowing from China and the SS tax payers to pay the yearly bills.

This gives a huge advantage to the wealthiest who are claiming to be paying about 90% of the bill, to put off actually paying for what we actually spend.

Right now, we are paying $300 billion a year on the interest alone, of this debt....taking away funds that were used at one time for other things, like the military etc... I heard that in 10 years from all of this recent spending BEFORE Obama, that interest payment will be $450 billion A YEAR, let alone all of the deficit spending the obama admin is talking about adding with their stimulus....this does not even reduce the debt any, just the interest payment to other countries loaning it to us... pretty frightening to me...

Anyway...the working class, is paying more than you'd think on the bills of this country and not just the SS retirement benefit bills...but this is never really discussed.

care

 

[Bern80]

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

....and the little people thanking the rich for taking the risk which allowed them to have a job. Show a little intellectual integrity please.

 

[Care4all]

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

this is what i don't understand.

people who trade their labor for dollars must believe that their remuneration is worth more than the hours of their time. Or else they would not be working for that particular employer.

If they do not believe their pay is worth more than their time, they are free to find an employer or another profession that will pay them.

Employers have to please their employees just as much if not more than employees have to please their employers.

If I make and sell pots for a living, I must ask a price for that pot that I believe is worth more than the materials and labor I put into making the pot. If i merely ask for what is equal to the materials and labor then i am no better off for having made the pot. Likewise the person who buys the pot must feel he is getting more than his payment for the pot or he would be no better off for having bought the pot.

It's is the same for those who sell their labor to an employer.

NO they don't...especially under tough times....

the employers can say "f it" and the employee would be foolish to quit, without another job in hand and with unemployment getting higher by the day.

my husband's corp told everyone, EVEN IF THEY MAKE THEIR GOALS in Sales and other parameters, they WILL NOT get a raise this year, nor a bonus.

Their competition laid off 7000 employees yesterday, so i guess he should consider himself lucky to have a job, at least so far...till his company makes the announcement of their layoffs which is of course, probably all on the Q T, which would be required until the official announcement!

 

[RodISHI]

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

....and the little people thanking the rich for taking the risk which allowed them to have a job. Show a little intellectual integrity please.

You are an ass bern and your twisted words show it.

There are no "little people" only pircks who gained wealth/power through deception that believe that they are better than others.

 

[Truthmatters]

Funny thing , when you make the prospective worker POOR with disastorous policies then you can pay them less.

Lets see,

The top 400 people in America had their incomes doubled by the Bush economy.

The mass majority are taking a massive financial hit.

Jobs are becoming scarce.


What will be the long term effect for the top 400?



The top 400 will be able to buy your labor at a much cheaper rate.



The top 400 will see there net worht rise even greater over the next few years.



I say we tax the shit out of them and get it back.