Unarmed exchange student killed by homeowner

[martybegan]

Why didn't he just stay inside, with his shotgun by his side and call the cops?

Because when seconds count the cops are minutes away. Furthermore, the cops have no legal obligation to respond with aid.

If your dumb enough to walk into someones personal property, your dumb enough to be shot. You know, it's really not all that difficult avoiding being shot like this.

-Geaux

So, now people deserve to be shot for being dumb? And you people say you aren't blood thirsty.

You may not deserve it, but you are risking it. And the risk is all on the trespasser, because you are TRESSPASSING.

 

[Esmeralda]

Because when seconds count the cops are minutes away. Furthermore, the cops have no legal obligation to respond with aid.

If your dumb enough to walk into someones personal property, your dumb enough to be shot. You know, it's really not all that difficult avoiding being shot like this.

-Geaux

So, now people deserve to be shot for being dumb? And you people say you aren't blood thirsty.

You may not deserve it, but you are risking it. And the risk is all on the trespasser, because you are TRESSPASSING.

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

 

[martybegan]

So, now people deserve to be shot for being dumb? And you people say you aren't blood thirsty.

You may not deserve it, but you are risking it. And the risk is all on the trespasser, because you are TRESSPASSING.

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

That's when you are safely apprehended and removed from the property the penalty is not death. When you are slinking around someones property they have no idea if you are a threat or not, and they have no obligation to put themselves at risk to figure out if you are a threat or not.

 

[Iceweasel]

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

You don't understand the laws or what the words trespassing or murder means. You are either lying or stunningly ill informed.

 

[Esmeralda]

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

You don't understand the laws or what the words trespassing or murder means. You are either lying or stunningly ill informed.

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

 

[Iceweasel]

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

You don't understand the laws or what the words trespassing or murder means. You are either lying or stunningly ill informed.

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

 

[Esmeralda]

You don't understand the laws or what the words trespassing or murder means. You are either lying or stunningly ill informed.

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

Are you crazy? Who would buy this BS? You have said that anyone who trespasses on your property deserves to die. So, please, show me the statute from any American state, county, whatever, that states the penalty for trespassing is death?

 

[Valerie]

Many states have enacted so-called stand your ground laws that remove the duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. Florida passed the first such law in 2005, generally allowing people to stand their ground instead of retreating if they reasonably believe doing so will "prevent death or great bodily harm."

Other states followed with laws specifically affirming one's right to defend themselves, even outside of their homes and with deadly force if necessary. The wording of each state's laws will vary, but typically require you to have the right to be at a location. State self-defense laws may also overlap, but generally fall into three general categories:

Stand Your Ground: No duty to retreat from the situation before resorting to deadly force; not limited to your property (home, office, etc.).

Castle Doctrine: Limited to real property, such as your home, yard, or private office; no duty to retreat (use of deadly force against intruders is legal in most situations); some states, like Missouri and Ohio, even include personal vehicles.

Duty to Retreat: Must retreat from the situation if you feel threatened (use of deadly force is considered a last resort); may not use deadly force if you are safely inside your home.

Here are the states that have passed stand your ground laws:

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

 

[Esmeralda]

Many states have enacted so-called stand your ground laws that remove the duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. Florida passed the first such law in 2005, generally allowing people to stand their ground instead of retreating if they reasonably believe doing so will "prevent death or great bodily harm."

Other states followed with laws specifically affirming one's right to defend themselves, even outside of their homes and with deadly force if necessary. The wording of each state's laws will vary, but typically require you to have the right to be at a location. State self-defense laws may also overlap, but generally fall into three general categories:

Stand Your Ground: No duty to retreat from the situation before resorting to deadly force; not limited to your property (home, office, etc.).

Castle Doctrine: Limited to real property, such as your home, yard, or private office; no duty to retreat (use of deadly force against intruders is legal in most situations); some states, like Missouri and Ohio, even include personal vehicles.

Duty to Retreat: Must retreat from the situation if you feel threatened (use of deadly force is considered a last resort); may not use deadly force if you are safely inside your home.

Here are the states that have passed stand your ground laws:

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

There is no 'reasonable' belief in this situation of death or bodily harm. All the homeowner had to do was lock the door between the garage and the house and call the police. He's going to spend a long, long time in prison. He lives in a state with the Castle Doctrine: use of deadly force is considered a last resort. This was not a last resort situation.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Markus Kaarma, Montana man, pleads not guilty in shooting death of German exchange student - CBS News

Suspect in German exchange student killing pleads not guilty.

Another unarmed teenanger is sacraficed to the pro-gun pitbull grip on a literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

American is the only modern Western country where unarmed burglary seems to warrant a death sentence.

Nothing to see here, just Darwin cleaning out the gene pool of retards.

You don't prank sneaking into strangers garages in the middle of the ******* night.

What a stupid shit, and it is no wonder that a cretin like you would sympathize with this little fucktard, Esmerelda.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Many states have enacted so-called stand your ground laws that remove the duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. Florida passed the first such law in 2005, generally allowing people to stand their ground instead of retreating if they reasonably believe doing so will "prevent death or great bodily harm."

Other states followed with laws specifically affirming one's right to defend themselves, even outside of their homes and with deadly force if necessary. The wording of each state's laws will vary, but typically require you to have the right to be at a location. State self-defense laws may also overlap, but generally fall into three general categories:

Stand Your Ground: No duty to retreat from the situation before resorting to deadly force; not limited to your property (home, office, etc.).

Castle Doctrine: Limited to real property, such as your home, yard, or private office; no duty to retreat (use of deadly force against intruders is legal in most situations); some states, like Missouri and Ohio, even include personal vehicles.

Duty to Retreat: Must retreat from the situation if you feel threatened (use of deadly force is considered a last resort); may not use deadly force if you are safely inside your home.

Here are the states that have passed stand your ground laws:

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

There is no 'reasonable' belief in this situation of death or bodily harm.

Yes, there is.

All the homeowner had to do was lock the door between the garage and the house and call the police.

"All he had to do..." said the person who wasn't there.

He's going to spend a long, long time in prison. He lives in a state with the Castle Doctrine: use of deadly force is considered a last resort. This was not a last resort situation.

I doubt that a full group of random citizens of the state of MONTANA will unanimously agree that there is no reasonable doubt involved her.

Stupid shit teenage punk died; good riddance.

 

[Katzndogz]

The death was completely avoidable by the simple act on the part of the thief to not steal.

 

[Valerie]

Many states have enacted so-called stand your ground laws that remove the duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. Florida passed the first such law in 2005, generally allowing people to stand their ground instead of retreating if they reasonably believe doing so will "prevent death or great bodily harm."

Other states followed with laws specifically affirming one's right to defend themselves, even outside of their homes and with deadly force if necessary. The wording of each state's laws will vary, but typically require you to have the right to be at a location. State self-defense laws may also overlap, but generally fall into three general categories:

Stand Your Ground: No duty to retreat from the situation before resorting to deadly force; not limited to your property (home, office, etc.).

Castle Doctrine: Limited to real property, such as your home, yard, or private office; no duty to retreat (use of deadly force against intruders is legal in most situations); some states, like Missouri and Ohio, even include personal vehicles.

Duty to Retreat: Must retreat from the situation if you feel threatened (use of deadly force is considered a last resort); may not use deadly force if you are safely inside your home.

Here are the states that have passed stand your ground laws:

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

There is no 'reasonable' belief in this situation of death or bodily harm. All the homeowner had to do was lock the door between the garage and the house and call the police. He's going to spend a long, long time in prison. He lives in a state with the Castle Doctrine: use of deadly force is considered a last resort. This was not a last resort situation.

i don't disagree as i haven't even read the story.

you'd think a guy with a gun could just lock his door and call the police...

generally, i think people should have a duty to retreat unless they are imminently threatened. SYG law leaves citizens vulnerable to the whims of paranoid feelings...

 

[JimBowie1958]

You don't understand the laws or what the words trespassing or murder means. You are either lying or stunningly ill informed.

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

Malice.

IT's another 'gotcha' by the fascist gun grabbing retards trying to illustrate their claim about how dangerous guns are, but it actually tells most people what loons the gun grabbers are instead.

If I hear someone in my garage at night and they are hiding and wont come out into plain sight I have to make a decision based on what I know.

1) Why is this person here if not to do me harm? Why would I think it is some jack ass trying to prank me? Why would/should I risk my life and my families life on the assumption that the hiding person is NOT trying to do me harm?

2) Why wont this person give up and come out? This makes me even more convinced of the strong likelihood they intend harm.

3) Are they near objects that can be used as weapons? Is this person within 20 feet of me and could rush me and knock me out? Most garages are small enough that 20 feet is likely, and they could have taken a tool from the tool bench like a hammer or nail gun to use as a weapon.

4) Do they have any plausible right to be in my garage in the middle of the night?

Given those details I would shoot at the person if they did not come out and do exactly as I tell them to.

They have no right to put me in that situation and if they don't comply they will wish they did.

 

[Valerie]

The death was completely avoidable by the simple act on the part of the thief to not steal.

citizens don't get to be judge and jury and the legal penalty for theft is not death.

 

[JimBowie1958]

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

There is no 'reasonable' belief in this situation of death or bodily harm. All the homeowner had to do was lock the door between the garage and the house and call the police. He's going to spend a long, long time in prison. He lives in a state with the Castle Doctrine: use of deadly force is considered a last resort. This was not a last resort situation.

i don't disagree as i haven't even read the story.

you'd think a guy with a gun could just lock his door and call the police...

You obviously don't have much of an idea of what can happen in these situations, one outcome of which is the hiding person is a criminal and can break into the door you lock in seconds and come at you. Most criminals know that a great many people don't have the nerve to pull the trigger and if they are high they might very well take the chance to rush you.

The home owner in this case did not know that the person hiding was a pranking student.

Why would that idea even come to mind?

generally, i think people should have a duty to retreat unless they are imminently threatened. SYG law leaves citizens vulnerable to the whims of paranoid feelings...

This has nothing to do with SYG as every state does not require you to retreat when in your own home which includes the garage.

Does that give you even the slightest clue about how far out in left field you are on this, when you assert a person has the duty to retreat in their own home and not one state agrees with you?

Sheesh.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The death was completely avoidable by the simple act on the part of the thief to not steal.

citizens don't get to be judge and jury and the legal penalty for theft is not death.

People do have the right to defend themselves and no homeowner has to risk death or worse just in case it isn't really a criminal killer hiding in his garage but some stupid punk kid.

 

[Valerie]

Markus Kaarma, Montana man, pleads not guilty in shooting death of German exchange student - CBS News

Suspect in German exchange student killing pleads not guilty.

Another unarmed teenanger is sacraficed to the pro-gun pitbull grip on a literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

American is the only modern Western country where unarmed burglary seems to warrant a death sentence.

Nothing to see here, just Darwin cleaning out the gene pool of retards.

You don't prank sneaking into strangers garages in the middle of the ******* night.

What a stupid shit, and it is no wonder that a cretin like you would sympathize with this little fucktard, Esmerelda.

why are you calling HER a 'cretin' for having a heart about an unnecessary death?

you sound like a blood thirsty cretin yourself.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The death was completely avoidable by the simple act on the part of the thief to not steal.

Or to just speak up and say who he is and that he was just playing a joke, then step into the light with his hands up.

The lbitards really think that they can build a 100% perfectly safe society where even the stupidest moron can do the most dangerous things and no one gets hurt.

Meanwhile thousands upon thousands suffer the effects of these stupid ideas till they can get the laws reverted to normal.

 

[Esmeralda]

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

Malice.

IT's another 'gotcha' by the fascist gun grabbing retards trying to illustrate their claim about how dangerous guns are, but it actually tells most people what loons the gun grabbers are instead.

If I hear someone in my garage at night and they are hiding and wont come out into plain sight I have to make a decision based on what I know.

1) Why is this person here if not to do me harm? Why would I think it is some jack ass trying to prank me? Why would/should I risk my life and my families life on the assumption that the hiding person is NOT trying to do me harm?

2) Why wont this person give up and come out? This makes me even more convinced of the strong likelihood they intend harm.

3) Are they near objects that can be used as weapons? Is this person within 20 feet of me and could rush me and knock me out? Most garages are small enough that 20 feet is likely, and they could have taken a tool from the tool bench like a hammer or nail gun to use as a weapon.

4) Do they have any plausible right to be in my garage in the middle of the night?

Given those details I would shoot at the person if they did not come out and do exactly as I tell them to.

They have no right to put me in that situation and if they don't comply they will wish they did.

You apparently have not read the article. None of the scenarios in your post match the incident.