Unacceptable Redistribution of Wealth

[dilloduck]

A flat tax, or a national income tax, would not only hurt the economy terribly, taking money directly from the pockets of the poor and middle class. But they would finally achieve a status where the filthy richest of us, will actually pay less in taxes than a burger flipper in a fast-food restaurant.

I would support a flat tax if ALL tax exemptions are eliminated. Make the rich pay a flat tax on EVERY dollar they take in and watch them squeal

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

 

[alan1]

What I find interesting about all of the little graphs posted by right-wingers, and the clever little charts is this. None of them represent the tax burden, no, not at all. They all talk about only the federal income tax. There is no inclusion of sales, gas, utility, property, toll-road taxes, or fees, or FICA taxes only on the first hundred thousand earned.

There is a good reason for that, of course. It is, the only tax that the truly wealthy pay more of as a percent of income, than the poor. All these people who are poor, end up paying all these other taxes, which disproportionately affect a person earning 20 grand a year. All these taxes to someone earning 300,000 dollars a year, are a pittance. They attack the one tax they pay more of, the one tax that properly assesses them greater responsibility for the much, much greater share of the commons that they use, to make their money.

A flat tax, or a national income tax, would not only hurt the economy terribly, taking money directly from the pockets of the poor and middle class. But they would finally achieve a status where the filthy richest of us, will actually pay less in taxes than a burger flipper in a fast-food restaurant.

And of these facts, right-wingers stay blissfully unaware. The next time someone bloviates around you, say, hey, how about we get rid of all regressive taxes, that way we can all make some headway. At least drop the stupid cap, so millionaire earners will at last pay as much as the middle, and upper middle class, for FICA/SS taxes. That is the least they could do.

How about we get rid of SS taxes altogether, and let me keep that 7.5% of my income? Oh wait, my employer matches it. Make that 15% more income for me.

Now, lets get to your burger flipper tax payer as it pertains to a flat tax or national sales tax compared to the burger flippers manager. Lets assume a 10% sales tax.
Joe burger flipper goes to the grocery store and spends $40 on groceries, he buys beans and chicken, his tax is $4.
Joe burger flippers manager makes a lot more money, so he goes to the grocery store and spends $100 buying steak and sushi, his tax is $10.
Which one paid more tax?
Now, lets look at it from a flat income tax point of view. Again, lets assume a flat income tax of 10%.
Joe burger flipper makes $18,000 a year, at a 10% flat tax rate he pays $1,800 of income tax.
Joe burger flippers manager makes a lot more money. He makes $50,000 a year. At a flat income tax rate of 10%, he pays $5,000 of income tax.
Which one paid more tax?

 

[rightwinger]

A flat tax, or a national income tax, would not only hurt the economy terribly, taking money directly from the pockets of the poor and middle class. But they would finally achieve a status where the filthy richest of us, will actually pay less in taxes than a burger flipper in a fast-food restaurant.

I would support a flat tax if ALL tax exemptions are eliminated. Make the rich pay a flat tax on EVERY dollar they take in and watch them squeal

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

No they don't....I buy my own shit

Rich people make money off the efforts of others

 

[dilloduck]

I would support a flat tax if ALL tax exemptions are eliminated. Make the rich pay a flat tax on EVERY dollar they take in and watch them squeal

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

No they don't....I buy my own shit

Rich people make money off the efforts of others

you mean they provide jobs ?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

The OP is nothing more than distorted partisan drivel. Have you ever seen water trickle upward? That appears to be what you want to promote.

The economy is bad. The mess did not start with former President Bush, although he has dirty hands. Both major parties ( as a whole ) are to blame for the mess. And more succinctly, the employers who have been enabling out of control government are to blame as well.

It makes no logical or economic sense to parade around with the idea of taxing those who pay the most and produce the most more. The rich and others should not have to be paying to help wipe some other American's butt because they can't get their act together. Life is hard wear a helmet.

When the federal government takes money from me to pay for welfare services for citizens in other states, that is unacceptable. It is not congruent with the Constitution.

If you want to help make sure that your fellow Americans have what they want and need, you pay for it. Keep your hands off my wallet.

Repeat your slogans, and then go away thinking you've done the right thing.

Nothing is produced without labor. You make the mistake of thinking that labor had nothing to do with making the millionaires millions.

Try to find some life outside of the stuff that has been put in your brain, to continue the trend of punishing the people who make stuff, and sucking the phalanxes of those who sit up there and collect the money.

I used to do lot surveys back in the seventies. For about five dollars, I'd do a survey in an hour, sometimes less, of a lot that my boss got 50 to 100 dollars for. Without my labor, he'd have gotten nothing. I know my labor was not the only cost, but without it, and the rodman, he'd have nothing.

Somehow, you've to to wrest yourself from 30 years of wrong-headed dogma, that is now bringing on a new dystopia. No one will be untouched, don't fool yourself into thinking you won't be affected.

I wasn't posting slogans. There is nothing wrong with what i posted. You can't keep taxing the people that pay the most more, and expect them to keep being able to stay in business. It doesn't work that way.

It is not the federal government's job to wipe the butts of the citizenry per the Constitution.

I take umbrage with your reasoning that wants to take money from me to give to others, just because you don't think I give enough already. You want to give, give of your own accord, and leave my money alone.

If someone wants help, they can go to the private sector. That is how it should be.

Edited to add: Just because a person has money, that doesn't mean anyone other person has a right to it.

If you want a good life for yourself, bust your butt and work for it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Rich people live off poor people. Always been that way, always will be that way. This is a populist, class warfare that the GOP is losing. When BHO was able to shatter the social value wing of the GOP, the result was guaranteed. He is now paying them off with economic pocket-book issues. BHO has been brillant, and the agendaists have alli and dude. Wow!

 

[alan1]

I would support a flat tax if ALL tax exemptions are eliminated. Make the rich pay a flat tax on EVERY dollar they take in and watch them squeal

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

No they don't....I buy my own shit

Rich people make money off the efforts of others

Funny that you would say that.
I make money off of the efforts of myself.
Some poor people make money off of the efforts of me, it's called welfare.

 

[rightwinger]

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

No they don't....I buy my own shit

Rich people make money off the efforts of others

you mean they provide jobs ?[/QUOTE]

Yes and the point of this thread is that the people making money off those jobs are getting richer, while those working those jobs make a poorer standard of living.

Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

The rich have manipulated the rules where they pay less tax on their profit and receive breaks on labor rules, minimum wages, worker protections.....

 

[Modbert]

When it comes to economics, I've always been amazed at the magic trick that Republicans pull off, actually making a bunch of people believe that their fiscal policies actually help them and voting against really themselves. Trickle Down Economics, Tax Credits, etc only really benefit the rich. When the poor have nothing to be taxed on, those credits are essentially worthless.

One will notice if they take a look at the Democrat and Republican Presidents going back to Ford that the national debt has always gone up under a Republican. So the whole idea of a Fiscal Conservative is a myth at best and a outright lie at worst.



However, Republicans fail to hold their own party accountable for their actions. May it be when it comes to affairs on the public dollar, may it come to scandal and corruption, or may it come to bullshit policies that end up hurting them.

And yet, Republicans continue to take it. One of the greatest examples is the Log Cabin Republicans. I've never seen such a diehard group committed to their beliefs. Especially when a great amount of the rest of the party consider them a mark on society, subhuman, and a even smaller amount rather see them "eliminated."

 

[alan1]

Rich people live off poor people. Always been that way, always will be that way. This is a populist, class warfare that the GOP is losing. When BHO was able to shatter the social value wing of the GOP, the result was guaranteed. He is now paying them off with economic pocket-book issues. BHO has been brillant, and the agendaists have alli and dude. Wow!

Yeah, the ones collecting welfare are all rich and living off of the poor.

 

[DiveCon]

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

No they don't....I buy my own shit

Rich people make money off the efforts of others

you mean they provide jobs ?

yeah, they pay HIM

 

[Cold Fusion38]

You know what happened the last time so FEW controlled so MUCH of the contries wealth.......THE GREAT DEPRESSION!!!

 

[alan1]

When it comes to economics, I've always been amazed at the magic trick that Republicans pull off, actually making a bunch of people believe that their fiscal policies actually help them and voting against really themselves. Trickle Down Economics, Tax Credits, etc only really benefit the rich. When the poor have nothing to be taxed on, those credits are essentially worthless.

One will notice if they take a look at the Democrat and Republican Presidents going back to Ford that the national debt has always gone up under a Republican. So the whole idea of a Fiscal Conservative is a myth at best and a outright lie at worst.

View attachment 8104

However, Republicans fail to hold their own party accountable for their actions. May it be when it comes to affairs on the public dollar, may it come to scandal and corruption, or may it come to bullshit policies that end up hurting them.

And yet, Republicans continue to take it. One of the greatest examples is the Log Cabin Republicans. I've never seen such a diehard group committed to their beliefs. Especially when a great amount of the rest of the party consider you a mark on society, subhuman, and a even smaller amount rather see you "eliminated."

The president doesn't control spending, the congress does.
Post a chart showing federal expenditures by congressional control and it would be more realistic. And yes, during much of the Bush administration, the republican controlled congress spent like drunken sailors. I didn't like it then either.

 

[rdean]

It's obvious that Republicans want to give away every cent they have to rich people. Strange.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

"rich people" pay for your shit. **** with them and they will stop paying for your shit.

No they don't....I buy my own shit

Rich people make money off the efforts of others

you mean they provide jobs ?

YEAH they provide jobs OVER ******* SEAS!!!!! THEY DON'T GIVE A **** ABOUT THEIR FELLOW AMERICANS and until you get that through you thick ******* skull then you will continue to get raped by the rich!!!

 

[rightwinger]

Rich people live off poor people. Always been that way, always will be that way. This is a populist, class warfare that the GOP is losing. When BHO was able to shatter the social value wing of the GOP, the result was guaranteed. He is now paying them off with economic pocket-book issues. BHO has been brillant, and the agendaists have alli and dude. Wow!

Yeah, the ones collecting welfare are all rich and living off of the poor.

Yes and its called corporate welfare. Remember the bailouts? Did that go to the poor? The rich get their welfare in different ways....tax breaks, shelters, off-shore tax free investments..
Its coming from the taxpayers and is still welfare

 

[alan1]

Rich people live off poor people. Always been that way, always will be that way. This is a populist, class warfare that the GOP is losing. When BHO was able to shatter the social value wing of the GOP, the result was guaranteed. He is now paying them off with economic pocket-book issues. BHO has been brillant, and the agendaists have alli and dude. Wow!

Yeah, the ones collecting welfare are all rich and living off of the poor.

Yes and its called corporate welfare. Remember the bailouts? Did that go to the poor? The rich get their welfare in different ways....tax breaks, shelters, off-shore tax free investments..
Its coming from the taxpayers and is still welfare

Holy ****, you mean the bailouts that I, as a conservative American, argued against? Wrote my congressmen about? Wrote my president about? Told all of them not to do it? Those bail outs? The ones I fought against?

 

[The T]

Rich people live off poor people. Always been that way, always will be that way. This is a populist, class warfare that the GOP is losing. When BHO was able to shatter the social value wing of the GOP, the result was guaranteed. He is now paying them off with economic pocket-book issues. BHO has been brillant, and the agendaists have alli and dude. Wow!

Yeah, the ones collecting welfare are all rich and living off of the poor.

Yes and its called corporate welfare. Remember the bailouts? Did that go to the poor? The rich get their welfare in different ways....tax breaks, shelters, off-shore tax free investments..
Its coming from the taxpayers and is still welfare

And none of that shit should be happening either. And another reason the present Tax Code needs to be done away with. It creates more problems than it settles and is punitive in so many ways.

And why the Founders never meant to tax INCOME of individuals to start with. It is nothing but a tool to alter behaviour against the better interests of this Republic.

 

[pal_of_poor]

Last I looked, houses cost less now than they did in 2007.
If you think you're paying more for energy now, wait until cap and trade kicks in. That's going to really raise your energy prices, and I have a feeling it's going to hurt the poor and middle class more than it's going to hurt the wealthy.

But you'll notice the things you really need the most, the commons if you like, are more expensive than ever.

And you've exemplified the real problem. While people have focused on this small upside, what you don't realize is, there are increasingly less people out there to buy the stuff. It's all crashing down around us, in case you've not noticed.

We're trying to pump up the tire of our economy again, and it's had so many holes punched into it with free-trade agreements, that each pump just results in the air coursing through it, and leaking right out to one of our many benefactor countries, in the form of our jobs. Only they do them so cheaply, that even they only benefit minimally.

Yes, we could've instead, sent our great system, our working economy out to the world. Instead, the rich chose to cripple anyone who didn't make more than a few hundred thousand a year, people who worked for a living. As it turns out, only the top few percent have gained. And that is to be expected, since they run everything, and since they are the talking heads that right-wingers are repeating their slogans from.

Seriously, when Rush limbauagh says "we" or "our" do you really think you are included? Perhaps in your mind you include yourself. That is the ploy at use here. They teach you to use these pronouns in management courses, for just this reason. People love to be included. But in truth, you are not, and you still reapeat their slogans right-wingers, and help them bring our destruction by agreeing with all their silly arguments, like Unions making too much, asking for too much, or being filled with thugs.

Wake up. The dystopia is knocking at the door, and you are about to let it in.

Sorry, I'm not buying your argument.
I am the product of a poor family. Mom and dad never had a large income, ever. They barely managed to keep enough food on the table for us 4 kids when I was young. They didn't put a single one of us through college because they couldn't afford it. Yet 3 of us ended up with college degrees that we earned while working and going to school at the same time. (Only 3 of us, because one of my sisters died at the young age of 26) Even though mom and dad never earned a lot in their lifetime, they did save and invest. Their net worth is well over a million dollars. Most of it accumulated in the last 20 years. They didn't do that because some "rich" person held them back or propelled them forward. Me, my sister and my brother are all solidly upper middle class. We didn't become that way because of some government program or because some "rich person" helped us out or payed more taxes. We did it because we worked at it. In the last 5 years I've more than doubled my income while working for somebody else. I'll double it again in the next 5 years. I crossed the line from being raised in a poor family to raising my children in a middle class family, that doesn't happen in too many countries, but it happens here in the USA. Funny how "the rich" didn't cripple me, isn't it?

P.S.
I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh.

The truth is, what you've posted is more like a ship passing, unaware of another ship, (my post) never interacting.

Good for you, and your family. What you've not addressed is the changing conditions of the last 40 years, and the affect, or possible affects it would have on a similar family.

I also appreciate your "speculation" of your eventual gains. I think many people anticipate wealth, or continued wealth, that never comes to fruition.

Also, one example does not a statistic make. It's like the "welfare queen" example in Reagan's years. He used it to smear the whole system, when in fact, it is an entirely false idea that they were all crack-whores. It is entirely false too, that every person who comes from a poor background, will end up getting through college, and on to a good job.

I'd also be interested in knowing what your idea of poor, and rich are, and where the middle class is for you.

A quote from Pefectly legal below.

_____________

America Has 134 Million Taxpaying Households

Arranged by income, on a ladder with 100 rungs, each rung would have about 1.3 million taxpayers.

The average income of the top 10 percent of American taxpayers rose 88.6 percent from 1970 to 2000, from $119,249 to $224,877 (adjusted for inflation).

This group’s share of income grew from 1970 to 2000 from 33 percent, to 48 percent.

The average income of the rest, the bottom 90 percent of earning households, stagnated over the last three decades, slipping from $27,060 in 1970 to $27,035 in 2000.

In this group, average incomes share of the national income fell from 67 percent to 52 percent.

Perfectly Legal, chart on p. 31

These charts show only average incomes, not income shares.

Also, since 2000, the shares and income trends for the top few percent, as well as wealth, have skyrocketed to unprecidented levels, even those before the Great Depression. And income disparity, as well as loans on the margin, were the two largest factors in brining on the last, and this depression.

Like it or not, outside of your own anecdotal world, things have gotten worse, and the system's rules from which we all play our little games of life, is rigged for the very rich. Some can make it--Kudos. But most will have a harder, and harder, and harder time, as that is the direction our poorly chosen leaders have led us, to our own destruction.

And like I said, your invented life in the future, and reality may at some point diverge. I suspect many who thought things were going to be cherry have ended up getting screwed, and are now among the ranks of the unemployed.

 

[Modbert]

The president doesn't control spending, the congress does.
Post a chart showing federal expenditures by congressional control and it would be more realistic. And yes, during much of the Bush administration, the republican controlled congress spent like drunken sailors. I didn't like it then either.

Drunken sailors would be a understatement. Which is why I wonder now why Republicans think they'll be taken seriously while screaming "Fiscally Conservative!"

The last time around showed they are just as bad as the Democrats, worse when they want to be, they just happen to spent our dollars on different programs for the most part. Instead of going towards education and social programs, they direct it differently. Their way to cover this spending? Cut education and the social programs.