Litwin
Gold Member
No,Looks like nato is cracking.
awesome news !
how it feels you Moscow cuckold ?
No,Looks like nato is cracking.
No,
awesome news !
how it feels you Moscow cuckold ?
WAR WAR WAR!!!!!!!! The litwin battle cry.
You'll have to translate the struggle for me.
What's the rush? Ukraine appears to be resolute in its determination to take back all of its country from the invaders and Ukraine's allies appear to be even more resolute now than they were last year to help them, and Russia appears unlikely to withdraw any time soon, so there is no reason to think this war will end in 2023 or even in 2024, so the training times are irrelevant.F-15 or F-16 jets would not be a good idea at the moment.
These jets have a steep learning curve and take at least 8 months of training (crash courses really) to master the thing.
So even if we started today....their pilots wouldn't be ready until October.
Bradleys, tanks, and etcetera are complicated enough that these require 3 months to learn to use. These ain't like your daddy's truck to drive. Nevermind the fancy equipment that they have. (Ukranians have been being trained....shhh....big secret here)
So I don't think that these will be good pieces for them. Also....teeth to tail ratios in Ukraine are not ideal for the maintenance on these things. Most of the equipment has to be hauled to Poland now for repairs. That's literally crossing the entire country to be fixed or get the oil changed.
What's the rush? Ukraine appears to be resolute in its determination to take back all of its country from the invaders and Ukraine's allies appear to be even more resolute now than they were last year to help them, and Russia appears unlikely to withdraw any time soon, so there is no reason to think this war will end in 2023 or even in 2024, so the training times are irrelevant.
Even if by some miracle Russia should agree to withdraw, no one would trust Russia to abide by the agreement so Ukraine would need these weapons and more to keep the peace, so the US and others should begin making preparations for the transfer of F-16's and modern battle tanks and should begin immediately begin training experienced Ukrainian fighter pilots and tanks crews and maintenance technicians to operate and maintain them.
There are no NATO standards concerning offensive weapons. What Ukraine needs depends on what the goals are. If the goal is to drive the Russian invaders from Ukraine then Ukraine needs modern main battle tanks like the Abrams and F-16's. The Abrams is heavy, a fuel hog and requires high maintenance - all solvable problems - but it is one of the most powerful and safest tanks in the world, and will serve the Ukrainian military well when they begin their counteroffensive.Actually we tend to follow NATO standards with the equipment that they are given. Meaning mostly defensive munitions and a very few pieces of offensive equipment.
For Ukraine the German tanks and USA Bradleys as well as the HIMARS and a few other different pieces are more than enough. The Abrams tanks tend to be too heavy and need to much maintenance to be very effective. Meaning there are too many bridges they can't cross...
Ukraine is used to cobbling together Russian tanks from all the broken ones. But Russia isn't exactly willing to sell Ukraine or the US any tank parts.
Well the maintenance techs aren't trained on how to do much with them yet....they can't be.There are no NATO standards concerning offensive weapons. What Ukraine needs depends on what the goals are. If the goal is to drive the Russian invaders from Ukraine then Ukraine needs modern main battle tanks like the Abrams and F-16's. The Abrams is heavy, a fuel hog and requires high maintenance - all solvable problems - but it is one of the most powerful and safest tanks in the world, and will serve the Ukrainian military well when they begin their counteroffensive.
Well, you just explained to them what to watch out for, so problem solved.Well the maintenance techs aren't trained on how to do much with them yet....they can't be.
The more complicated a complex system is the longer it takes to instantly diagnose where the trouble is.
Like a dropped neutral in a motor control cabinet....and you can't install a transformer just to have the new neutral. It doesn't work like that on a tank. You gotta find the real culprit and solve the problem. And considering the abuse of warfare and jarheads....it will take some time for the techs to become proficient and not take a shortcut workaround.
The military part isn't really the issue in order for NATO and Ukraine to win this war, since there is enough hardware to be sold or given in the next few years - but $$ and therefore the necessary political will.What's the rush? Ukraine appears to be resolute in its determination to take back all of its country from the invaders and Ukraine's allies appear to be even more resolute now than they were last year to help them, and Russia appears unlikely to withdraw any time soon, so there is no reason to think this war will end in 2023 or even in 2024, so the training times are irrelevant.
Even if by some miracle Russia should agree to withdraw, no one would trust Russia to abide by the agreement so Ukraine would need these weapons and more to keep the peace, so the US and others should begin making preparations for the transfer of F-16's and modern battle tanks and should begin immediately begin training experienced Ukrainian fighter pilots and tanks crews and maintenance technicians to operate and maintain them.
Let's not get sucked into Putin's morass of lies about this war being between Russia and NATO or between Russia and the US. NATO is not fighting this war nor is it providing any material support to Ukraine's warm effort. Many NATO member states on their own initiative are supporting Ukraine, but the war is strictly between Russia and Ukraine.The military part isn't really the issue in order for NATO and Ukraine to win this war, since there is enough hardware to be sold or given in the next few years - but $$ and therefore the necessary political will.
There are numerous elections in Europe and NATO states in the coming 2-3 years - that will have a far more decisive impact on this war then military support.
If NATO decides to continue this war it will cost trillions of $$ (not just military hardware - but mostly economic/financial humanitarian support - especially in view of entirely having to rebuild the infrastructure of Ukraine, which alone will take more then 20 years. I am not sure if anyone in the EU or NATO is actually realistically aware that this is going to be by far the most $$ challenging task - the EU and NATO ever took on in their entire history. I would even go as far as to say the most challenging $$ task in Human mankind's history in regards to paying the bills for another country.
Every anti tank missile is $100,000 dollars at a 5 million to 15 million dollar vehicle.The military part isn't really the issue in order for NATO and Ukraine to win this war, since there is enough hardware to be sold or given in the next few years - but $$ and therefore the necessary political will.
There are numerous elections in Europe and NATO states in the coming 2-3 years - that will have a far more decisive impact on this war then military support.
If NATO decides to continue this war it will cost trillions of $$ (not just military hardware - but mostly economic/financial humanitarian support - especially in view of entirely having to rebuild the infrastructure of Ukraine, which alone will take more then 20 years. I am not sure if anyone in the EU or NATO is actually realistically aware that this is going to be by far the most $$ challenging task - the EU and NATO ever took on in their entire history. I would even go as far as to say the most challenging $$ task in Human mankind's history in regards to paying the bills for another country.
Every anti tank missile is $100,000 dollars at a 5 million to 15 million dollar vehicle.
War is stupid expensive.
Sure the EU is going to pay a lot for this war....but in terms of investment Russia can't afford to economically fight the EU.
If Russia pays over half of its GDP for a war....it's going to go bankrupt over it. Especially when it's destroying the very infrastructure they wished to steal.
Russia is much more capable than Ukraine of having a protracted war in many ways. Ukraine is one of the poorest countries. But this NATO aide is helping them financially.great post, for how long can Moscow empire run this freak show? my guess 6-12 months , am I right ?
not for Ukraine but for the Liberal Order, I dont think so, Muscovite empire has lost all big wars in the second part of 19c / 1917 . so we broke the Moscow horde many times before, and we are gonna do it againI don't see it ending well for Ukraine....
Afghanistan is a good example of how this is going to go....not for Ukraine but for the Liberal Order, I dont think so, Muscovite empire has lost all big wars in the second part of 19c / 1917 . so we broke the Moscow horde many times before, and we are gonna do it again
Moscow horde´s war record :-
1856 defeated by Britain and France
1905 defeated by Japan
1917 defeated by Germany
1920 defeated by Poland, Finland, Estonia and all Baltic states
1939 defeated by Finland
1969 defeated by China
1989 defeated by Afghanistan
1989 defeated in the Cold War.
1996 defeated by Chechnya
2022 defeated by Ukraine
WW2 won USA/Britain , meanwhile Stalin's officers were shot or sent to the Gulags. Millions went to the Gulags, including Solzhenitsyn
Moscow's only victories come from invading smaller countries :-
a) Hungary 1956
b) Czechoslovakia 1968
c) Moldova 1992
d) Georgia 2008