Ukraine agrees to peace deal with minor details to settle yet.....

[sartre play]

Why?

Seriously, if the Ukranians and the Russians agree to it, why do you need to see it?

Unless you think it obligates or might obligate the U.S. to do something. If that is your ONLY concern, I agree we need to see it.

YES, Need to see what this power play will cost us.
Supported Ukraine Only because they wanted to be free from RUSSIAN DICTATOR RULE.
Every country wants this don't they ??

 

[Seymour Flops]

YES, Need to see what this power play will cost us.
Supported Ukraine Only because they wanted to be free from RUSSIAN DICTATOR RULE.
Every country wants this don't they ??

Yes, of course.

I've always rooted for Ukraine in the wake of the invasion. But that is a far cry from wanting to enrich arms manufacturers by prolonging a losing war.

 

[CrazyTrader55]

Oh, I see. Well, you don't know yourself well, and above all you're in complete denial about your fellow Democracks.

Damage to your head is not equal "damage to this nation, ooooooooooooo, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"

Ignore IM2. It's of no value to hear his lies and stupid arguments.

 

[Ringo]

As a functional state, Ukraine is dead. It's already over. It has no economy and the worst demographics in the entire world. Beyond this war, there is no Ukraine - it would be a black hole sucking infinite amounts of EU money, money that the EU doesn't have, money that the EU can only generate by engaging in military-industrial trickery and printing money, and this only really works if there's a war.

The Ukrainian state is, for all intents and purposes, a EU-run private military company with some civil staff. It will never be able to have an independent economy again and the second it ends mobilization and opens its borders, a huge fraction of its remaining population (that is approximately half of what they claim officially) will just leave immediately.

This is why Kiev and its patrons are not interested in any sort of "peace" - they want a ceasefire to improve their position, and then continue or even expand the war. Peace is only possible by grinding the rest of the AFU into paste and securing strategic positioning that would make an expansion of the war untenable for the Western powers.

 

[marvin martian]

I'm not the one in denial. Trump is damaging this country.

^^^Look how angry this clown is that Ukrainians are going to stop dying.

The lefty death cult is disgusting.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Mac1958]

A lot of Russians are in for a very cold winter, given how successful the Ukrainian drone attacks have been on Russia's power and oil infrastructure.

Putin knows he needs an exit plan, but he'll squeeze the weak American President for whatever he can get.

If Z likes it, get it done!

 

[rightwinger]

Why?

Seriously, if the Ukranians and the Russians agree to it, why do you need to see it?

Unless you think it obligates or might obligate the U.S. to do something. If that is your ONLY concern, I agree we need to see it.

Because we, along with Europe have a dog in the fight if Putin reverts to expanded aggression

 

[Ringo]

 

[Seymour Flops]

Because we, along with Europe have a dog in the fight if Putin reverts to expanded aggression

Europe, yes.

Why "we?" Assuming you mean the U.S.

I can't see Russia coming across the Atlantic to attack us. If they do, the war won't last long.

 

[Seymour Flops]

As a functional state, Ukraine is dead. It's already over. It has no economy and the worst demographics in the entire world. Beyond this war, there is no Ukraine - it would be a black hole sucking infinite amounts of EU money, money that the EU doesn't have, money that the EU can only generate by engaging in military-industrial trickery and printing money, and this only really works if there's a war.

The Ukrainian state is, for all intents and purposes, a EU-run private military company with some civil staff. It will never be able to have an independent economy again and the second it ends mobilization and opens its borders, a huge fraction of its remaining population (that is approximately half of what they claim officially) will just leave immediately.

This is why Kiev and its patrons are not interested in any sort of "peace" - they want a ceasefire to improve their position, and then continue or even expand the war. Peace is only possible by grinding the rest of the AFU into paste and securing strategic positioning that would make an expansion of the war untenable for the Western powers.

I'm not a hundred percent sure I agree, but that sounds like a very good analysis.

Well done.

 

[Ringo]

 

[rightwinger]

Europe, yes.

Why "we?" Assuming you mean the U.S.

I can't see Russia coming across the Atlantic to attack us. If they do, the war won't last long.

Yes

Because we are the worlds policeman

 

[Ringo]

Yes
Because we are the worlds policeman

No, it's other side of the law person.

 

[citygator]

Whoops.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/25/world/europe/ukraine-russia-strike-peace-plan.html

Russia Strikes Ukraine and Signals Resistance to Amended Peace Plan​

The attack killed at least seven people in Kyiv, the authorities said, as Moscow suggested it would resist changes negotiated by Ukraine.

 

[marvin martian]

Whoops.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/25/world/europe/ukraine-russia-strike-peace-plan.html

Russia Strikes Ukraine and Signals Resistance to Amended Peace Plan​

The attack killed at least seven people in Kyiv, the authorities said, as Moscow suggested it would resist changes negotiated by Ukraine.

Looks like you're getting what you want; more dead Ukrainians, and a rejection of President Trump's peace plan.

 

[citygator]

Looks like you're getting what you want; more dead Ukrainians, and a rejection of President Trump's peace plan.

I dont think the Russians are honest brokers and if I was Trump I wouldnt do anything publicly. Its not Trump's fault the Russians suck. It is his fault he believes them at times. Everything they say is a lie. I do expect it to end under Trump. No way it goes 3 more years.

 

[marvin martian]

I dont think the Russians are honest brokers and if I was Trump I wouldnt do anything publicly. Its not Trump's fault the Russians suck. It is his fault he believes them at times. Everything they say is a lie. I do expect it to end under Trump. No way it goes 3 more years.

You can keep hoping. If Zelensky decides he wants to fight to every last Ukrainian man, woman, and child, you'll cheer.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Yes

Because we are the worlds policeman

We never signed Ukraine up as a client for that protection.

Deliberately chose not to, in fact.

 

[Edgetho]

Russia is getting hur much, MUCH more than anybody is letting on. A lot worse than people know. The Ukes are killing the shit out of the Russians. Bigly.

• Open-Source Investigations: A joint investigation by the BBC Russian Service, Mediazona, and a network of volunteers has confirmed the names of over 128,000 Russian soldiers killed as of September 2025, through public records, obituaries, and cemetery data. They estimate the actual death toll is significantly higher, likely between 226,541 and 327,226.
• Western Intelligence Estimates:
  • The UK Ministry of Defense estimated in June 2025 that Russia had suffered approximately 250,000 killed in action.
  • The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) similarly estimated 250,000 Russian military deaths by May 2025.

Take what you read and hear in the DISGUSTING FILTH with a grain of salt. They sit at the Kiddie Table of real, international news. Try this one for size.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 24, 2025

US and Ukrainian delegations reportedly narrowed down the initial US-proposed 28-point peace plan to 19 points.

understandingwar.org

US and Ukrainian delegations reportedly narrowed down the initial US-proposed 28-point peace plan to 19 points.[1] An official briefed on the negotiations told the Washington Post that the peace plan to end Russia’s war in Ukraine now has 19 points and is based on the original US proposal, but that US and Ukrainian delegations have not yet agreed upon the final number of points

The persistent Russian rate of advance does not indicate that Russian forces will imminently seize the rest of Donetsk Oblast. CBS reported on November 23 that a US official stated that Russian President Vladimir Putin believes that he will take all of Donetsk Oblast “one way or another” either through a negotiated settlement or military means.[8] The Kremlin has been doubling down on spreading the false narrative that a Russian victory is inevitable, such that Ukraine and the West should immediately acquiesce to Russian demands.[9] Russia’s imminent seizure of the rest of Donetsk Oblast is not guaranteed, as Russia’s rate of advance has been constrained to a foot pace – even in the past three months