UK : Pakistani men sexually abused 1400 young/minor girls

[ChrisL]

No one is claiming that other people don't molest children too. The point is, it is not acceptable and is a crime in our country, in our culture. In their culture (the ones who immigrate from ME countries anyways), it is an acceptable part of their culture. Child marriages are common in many of those countries in the ME.

I have condemned every barbaric act against children whether it be by a Muslim or Christian.
It is claimed that sadomasochism and flagellation have been an enduring part of English male culture for centuries.I dont care as long as they stay within the law.
Gay marriage is now part of our culture. I dont care its legal..
The minimum age for marriage in the UK is 16.
The minimum age for sexual consent in the UK is 16, it is now part of our culture that this is broken frequently.
The lowest minimum age for sexual consent in Europe is catholic Spain at 13, Muslim Turkey has the highest at 18yrs .
I come from a standpoint that all religions are an evil load of bollocks, but singling only one group of religious criminal goes against the wonderful culture of fair play in Great Britain.
Any legal resident of the UK who commits any form of crime should be prosecuted.
I would like to see the culture of the Catholic Confessional banned for obvious reasons, how about you?

I don't see how any of this addresses the fact that child marriage (children as young as 9 years old) is common place in many Muslim countries. That is regardless of the "law." And it is still culturally acceptable. I've posted MUCH evidence in this regard, including documents and articles from the Human Rights Watch. If you need to see the proof that these "men" are marrying children in LARGE numbers, then I would be happy to find the articles and post them. It is a fact that child marriage is an acceptable part of Islam and is even ENCOURAGED by their leaders and imams. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed is taken with literal meaning.

 

[ChrisL]

I can't even believe we have people defending this cult. Stunning!

 

[Indofred]

No one is claiming that other people don't molest children too. The point is, it is not acceptable and is a crime in our country, in our culture. In their culture (the ones who immigrate from ME countries anyways), it is an acceptable part of their culture. Child marriages are common in many of those countries in the ME.

I have condemned every barbaric act against children whether it be by a Muslim or Christian.
It is claimed that sadomasochism and flagellation have been an enduring part of English male culture for centuries.I dont care as long as they stay within the law.
Gay marriage is now part of our culture. I dont care its legal..
The minimum age for marriage in the UK is 16.
The minimum age for sexual consent in the UK is 16, it is now part of our culture that this is broken frequently.
The lowest minimum age for sexual consent in Europe is catholic Spain at 13, Muslim Turkey has the highest at 18yrs .
I come from a standpoint that all religions are an evil load of bollocks, but singling only one group of religious criminal goes against the wonderful culture of fair play in Great Britain.
Any legal resident of the UK who commits any form of crime should be prosecuted.
I would like to see the culture of the Catholic Confessional banned for obvious reasons, how about you?

I don't see how any of this addresses the fact that child marriage (children as young as 9 years old) is common place in many Muslim countries. That is regardless of the "law." And it is still culturally acceptable. I've posted MUCH evidence in this regard, including documents and articles from the Human Rights Watch. If you need to see the proof that these "men" are marrying children in LARGE numbers, then I would be happy to find the articles and post them. It is a fact that child marriage is an acceptable part of Islam and is even ENCOURAGED by their leaders and imams. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed is taken with literal meaning.

Perhaps you could mention the age of consent in Muslim countries, and compare that to the same in Christian countries.
With a few exceptions, Christian countries have a lower age of consent.
Now, whilst we're on the go, perhaps you could take the level of teenage mothers into account in both Muslim and Christian countries - the number of single parent families and the STD rates of Christian and Muslim countries.

The Vatican was the lowest in Europe, and far lower than most Muslim countries.
Vatican City raises age of consent from 12 to 18 following scandals Gay Star News

 

[ChrisL]

No one is claiming that other people don't molest children too. The point is, it is not acceptable and is a crime in our country, in our culture. In their culture (the ones who immigrate from ME countries anyways), it is an acceptable part of their culture. Child marriages are common in many of those countries in the ME.

I have condemned every barbaric act against children whether it be by a Muslim or Christian.
It is claimed that sadomasochism and flagellation have been an enduring part of English male culture for centuries.I dont care as long as they stay within the law.
Gay marriage is now part of our culture. I dont care its legal..
The minimum age for marriage in the UK is 16.
The minimum age for sexual consent in the UK is 16, it is now part of our culture that this is broken frequently.
The lowest minimum age for sexual consent in Europe is catholic Spain at 13, Muslim Turkey has the highest at 18yrs .
I come from a standpoint that all religions are an evil load of bollocks, but singling only one group of religious criminal goes against the wonderful culture of fair play in Great Britain.
Any legal resident of the UK who commits any form of crime should be prosecuted.
I would like to see the culture of the Catholic Confessional banned for obvious reasons, how about you?

I don't see how any of this addresses the fact that child marriage (children as young as 9 years old) is common place in many Muslim countries. That is regardless of the "law." And it is still culturally acceptable. I've posted MUCH evidence in this regard, including documents and articles from the Human Rights Watch. If you need to see the proof that these "men" are marrying children in LARGE numbers, then I would be happy to find the articles and post them. It is a fact that child marriage is an acceptable part of Islam and is even ENCOURAGED by their leaders and imams. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed is taken with literal meaning.

Perhaps you could mention the age of consent in Muslim countries, and compare that to the same in Christian countries.
With a few exceptions, Christian countries have a lower age of consent.
Now, whilst we're on the go, perhaps you could take the level of teenage mothers into account in both Muslim and Christian countries - the number of single parent families and the STD rates of Christian and Muslim countries.

The Vatican was the lowest in Europe, and far lower than most Muslim countries.
Vatican City raises age of consent from 12 to 18 following scandals Gay Star News

The laws don't matter to them because it is a culturally acceptable practice. Human Rights Watch has reported on this MULTIPLE times. It is a well known fact and spans MULTIPLE countries in the ME and Africa, places where Islam is prevalent.

High levels of child marriage Pakistan and Afghanistan

 

[ChrisL]

Here's another. They actually had to make laws, because this was SO prevalent, that you cannot trade or sell your daughters to pay off debts!!!

Child Marriages in Pakistan The Institute for Social Justice ISJ

 

[ChrisL]

You've already tried this angle Indofred. You should have already looked at these links.

The Muslims are the ones interpreting it and acting upon those interpretations. They do NOT think it is taken out of context or era.

Not at all.
A few Muslims wanted to rape children.
Ethnicity and cultural identity - Rotherham Joint Strategic Needs Assessment

There are about 8,000 Muslims from Pakistan and area in Rotherham, only a very few engaged in this filth.
This suggests, all the shit about these people following the holy book is in error, or the rest are really bad Muslims.

That is not what my link suggests. My link suggests that laws in Pakistan to raise age of consent so that the men can no longer marry 9-year-old children have been fought against tooth and nail because these men want little girls. The leader of a particular sect says that it is unIslamist to stop men from marrying children as young as 9 years old if they show signs of puberty. This tells us that it is more than a "few" as you claim.

Child Marriages in Pakistan The Institute for Social Justice ISJ

 

[ChrisL]

Cultures clash over forced child marriages in Pakistan

Advocates for harsher laws against child marriage argue that it's an oppressive practice that traumatizes young girls, while traditionalists say it goes against the Koran to pass such a law. According to the Muslim holy book, the Prophet Muhammad married minors.

More than 140 million girls younger than 18 will be married to men as old as 60 in the next decade, the United Nations Human Rights Council estimated recently. About 50% of the marriages will occur in South Asia, the council found.

In Pakistan, poor families commonly marry off girls as young as 10, shifting the cost of supporting them to their new husbands.

Secular-minded lawmakers want to amend Pakistani law to impose two-year jail sentences and $1,000 fines for child marriage. Current penalties for breaking the law are only a month in jail and a $10 fine. The laws, which are rarely enforced, apply to parents and clerics who perform marriages.

Officials in Sindh province — where Karachi, Pakistan's largest city, is located — have strengthened local laws against the tradition. Police there have raided wedding parties to enforce it, shocking Pakistani conservatives.

Traditionalists are now mounting an effort to prevent the bill. The Council of Islamic Ideology, an official panel that advises the government on Islamic law, recently ruled that the 1929 law, as well as the proposed amendments, was "un-Islamic."

"Girls as young as 9 years old are eligible to be married if the signs of puberty are visible," said Council Chairman Maulana Muhammad Khan Shirani. "Parliament should not create laws which are against the teachings of the Koran."

Anti-child marriage advocates lamented how Shirani is allowed a say in the measure.Rubina Saigol, a Lahore-based activist, said the council is a legacy of Pakistan's authoritarian past.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Cultures clash over forced child marriages in Pakistan

Advocates for harsher laws against child marriage argue that it's an oppressive practice that traumatizes young girls, while traditionalists say it goes against the Koran to pass such a law. According to the Muslim holy book, the Prophet Muhammad married minors.

More than 140 million girls younger than 18 will be married to men as old as 60 in the next decade, the United Nations Human Rights Council estimated recently. About 50% of the marriages will occur in South Asia, the council found.

In Pakistan, poor families commonly marry off girls as young as 10, shifting the cost of supporting them to their new husbands.

Secular-minded lawmakers want to amend Pakistani law to impose two-year jail sentences and $1,000 fines for child marriage. Current penalties for breaking the law are only a month in jail and a $10 fine. The laws, which are rarely enforced, apply to parents and clerics who perform marriages.

Officials in Sindh province — where Karachi, Pakistan's largest city, is located — have strengthened local laws against the tradition. Police there have raided wedding parties to enforce it, shocking Pakistani conservatives.

Traditionalists are now mounting an effort to prevent the bill. The Council of Islamic Ideology, an official panel that advises the government on Islamic law, recently ruled that the 1929 law, as well as the proposed amendments, was "un-Islamic."

"Girls as young as 9 years old are eligible to be married if the signs of puberty are visible," said Council Chairman Maulana Muhammad Khan Shirani. "Parliament should not create laws which are against the teachings of the Koran."

Anti-child marriage advocates lamented how Shirani is allowed a say in the measure.Rubina Saigol, a Lahore-based activist, said the council is a legacy of Pakistan's authoritarian past.

and in Israel to use pro-lifes vernacular between 20 to 40,000 "babies" were "murdered" last year in a country with one of the most Liberal abortion laws in the world. Your comments @ChrisL

 

[Ropey]

Some people are fine with abusing wonen sexually and in other ways.Pakistan seems to have real problems in that arena and comparitives won't change that fact.

Apologetics won't either.

​

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I can't even believe we have people defending this cult. Stunning!

I'd say there are at least three types who do this:

1 -- Children who are not receiving the proper degree of attention from their parents and who are acting out.

2 -- Jihadists.

3 -- Pedophiles.

I would like to think this arises mostly from the first group, but one never knows......

 

[I.P.Freely]

Some people are fine with abusing wonen sexually and in other ways.Pakistan seems to have real problems in that arena and compsritives won't change that fact.

Apologetics won't either.

​

would you care to re write the above

 

[I.P.Freely]

I can't even believe we have people defending this cult. Stunning!

The queen and prince charles, Charles when he becomes king wishes to be known as defender of all faith

 

[Ropey]

Some people are fine with abusing wonen sexually and in other ways.Pakistan seems to have real problems in that arena and compsritives won't change that fact.

Apologetics won't either.

​

would you care to re write the above

^For the slow of mind

Apologism

Comparatvies/Superlatives

Women in Karak have been prohibited from leaving their homes without a mahram due to the reason that they spread vulgarity and distract men during the holy month. Perhaps, a better way of ensuring that these weak-willed men stay chaste would be for the primitives to blindfold themselves and stay in their homes. Evidently, women do not suffer from any such inclinations when they head out to the store to purchase groceries; it is only the men who become overwhelmed by uncontrollable urges. It makes perfect sense that they should also be the ones to take precautions.

Nice bit of response from a lady in Pakistan.

First of all it is very comforting to read these comments from more and more women who want to defend their rights.The damage is not only caused by religious charities but even more by all those silent and scared elite which have shut their mouths and would almost never counter these illiterate clerics who have almost totally occupied the space in Pakistan. Any religious charlatan in Pakstan can speak as much trash as he wants by using religious references and yet there would be very few people who will take the liberty or have the courage to contradict him. In any case, keep on fighting if you don’t want to die. There is no other solution and the fight will be really long.

Women in Pakistan are second-class citizens

It's pretty clear. There's no need for comparing these events with historical comparatives of when other women were also treated so poorly.

There's no need to apologize for this by saying others did it at other times.

It's real enough in Pakistan. The women there, right now, know the danger of being a woman there.

 

[I.P.Freely]

ah I see you meant comparatives. Any form of abuse is evil.I am passionate about women's rights, in particular there right to choose to have an abortion. What say you Rupee my old mucker?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Apologetics won't either.

​

I am always interested in the whys of things, and the only working theory I have come up with to explain the apologetics has to do with a combination of stupidity, an overreactive nature, acting out and misplaced sense of group identity.

These knee-jerk reactions are not the product of any actual ideology, much less a liberal one, but are simply a display of group think acting as an enormous oppositional defiant disorder. These children have no idea what they stand FOR, only against, and since they are against anything they define as "right wing", they just dig in their heels, ball their pudgy little fingers into fists and flail away by supporting anything this "right wing" opposes.

If liking dogs were to ever be associated with a right wing belief, these reactive dolts would kick a few puppies to the curb just to make sure.

 

[Ropey]

Some people are fine with abusing wonen sexually and in other ways.Pakistan seems to have real problems in that arena and comparitives won't change that fact.

Apologetics won't either.

would you care to re write the above

ah I see you meant comparatives. Any form of abuse is evil.I am passionate about women's rights, in particular there right to choose to have an abortion. What say you Rupee my old mucker?

Of course I meant comparatives. I said it and you said you needed an explanation. After the explanation you understand the word because it meant something different to you before the explanation.

I understand. A misspelled word from my tablet stumped you.

 

[Ropey]

I am always interested in the whys of things, and the only working theory I have come up with to explain the apologetics has to do with a combination of stupidity, an overreactive nature, acting out and misplaced sense of group identity.

These knee-jerk reactions are not the product of any actual ideology, much less a liberal one, but are simply a display of group think acting as an enormous oppositional defiant disorder. These children have no idea what they stand FOR, only against, and since they are against anything they define as "right wing", they just dig in their heels, ball their pudgy little fingers into fists and flail away by supporting anything this "right wing" opposes.

If liking dogs were to ever be associated with a right wing belief, these reactive dolts would kick a few puppies to the curb just to make sure.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Rupee I realise Pakistan is a third world country and there are probably far more cases of child brides there.
But America is the most advanced nation in the world, and yet you have cults/religions that practise this barbaric behaviour. Women We were child brides in U.S. - CNN.com

 

[I.P.Freely]

Some people are fine with abusing wonen sexually and in other ways.Pakistan seems to have real problems in that arena and comparitives won't change that fact.

Apologetics won't either.

would you care to re write the above

ah I see you meant comparatives. Any form of abuse is evil.I am passionate about women's rights, in particular there right to choose to have an abortion. What say you Rupee my old mucker?

Of course I meant comparatives. I said it and you said you needed an explanation. After the explanation you understand the word because it meant something different to you before the explanation.

I understand. A misspelled word from my tablet stumped you.

Rupee being a pedant means I inquire before I presume. Methinks next time you should take half a tablet.






Ps my old mucker would you be so kind to answer my question re women's right to choose.

 

[Ropey]

It's one word. Apologist.
It's one word. Comparatives.

And you need definitions? You don't understand those words as they are defined by dictionaries. You need my personal definition?



Yeah, ok.

Rupee I realise Pakistan is a third world country and there are probably far more cases of child brides there.
But America is the most advanced nation in the world, and yet you have cults/religions that practise this barbaric behaviour. Women We were child brides in U.S. - CNN.com

Comparatives don't change the OP and they don't change the facts.

Interviews with a handful of the country's 88 million women and girls

I am a Pakistani man. All I can say is that the day verdicts are passed in the court of law and sentences are implemented against those found guilty this will stop. But it is unfortunate that those incharge of Pakistan the Feudal Politicians , the Generals are the worst off when it comes to denying women their basic rights. And it is to these two classes that the west gives monetary assistance to stay in power.

To Be a Woman in Pakistan Six Stories of Abuse Shame and Survival

Clearly even many of the Pakistani men understand the depths of their mistreatment. Especially those who have emigrated to those countries others attempt to conflate their comparatives with. Do you need to be told what conflate means?



Maybe some American Pakistani views on this.