Two Words: Nuclear Option

Maybe MIPS post will help. I highlighted and enlarged the key parts so you won't have to read the whole thing. I know about your limited education and all.

As I pointed out earlier, reconciliation and the "Nuclear Option" are completely different things.



Please tell all of us what the difference is, Vast. I have a feeling it's going to be something interesting coming from you. Try not to embarrass yourself in doing so, OK?

First, he said the House could simply approve the Senate bill, sending it straight to President Obama's desk.

Then, Durbin said, the Senate could make changes to the bill by using the nuclear option, known formally as "reconciliation," a tactic that would allow Democrats to adjust parts of health care reform with just a 51-vote majority.

"We could go to something called 'reconciliation', which is in the weeds procedurally, but would allow us to modify that health care bill by a different process that doesn't require 60 votes, only a majority," Durbin said. "So that is one possibility there."

FOXNews.com - Top Senate Democrat Outlines 'Nuclear Option' Strategy for Health Care
 
You made an interesting assumption here, and aside from my answer in an earlier post (number 124) in which I debunked your representative fallacy; on second thought I decided to check the assumptions you made about population;

This is a surprising result. I used 2000 census data, since that gave me the most ease in tallying population figures for the states. Assuming that growth of population has been roughly proportional through out the states, then the proportional comparison should still be in line; I suspect that the R states have grown more than the D states considering the growth of Florida, Texas, Nevada, and the loss of population growth of New York, California, New Jersey, and possibly Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Of the 28 states having republican US Senators:

State totals 138,081,893 / US total 281,422,000 = 49% in the year 2000

You of course didn't take into account the amount of seats that have changed hands since 2000.

The below figures took a bunch of researching, lol. The things I do to check my data.

First, of all, I'd like to say that you are correct in that my figures are in fact off.

As of July 1, 2009, the estimated population of the 50 states and District of Columbia was 307,006,550.

There are currently only 13 states with both Senate seats filled with Republicans. These states add up to a total population of 66,909,134 or approximately 22% of the population.

This is where the obviously exaggerated figure of 25% I used before comes from. I did it to make a point. You are correct to call me on that figure. My bad.

There are also 13 states where the seats are split, including Massachussetts. These states add up to a total population of 76,646,943 or 25% of the population. I divide this in half, though obviously that is not the correct way to do it, but it will serve for the purposes of my statement, giving us a figure of 12.5%.

So the total population represented by Republicans is 37.5%.

You are resorting to a tautology and technicalities. It matters not whether a state has one or two Republican senators, just as it matters not whether a state has two Democrat senators. One senator can affect the whole senate process.

Taken as a whole, 2000 (the last most recent census) census figures suggest the split is even at almost exactly 50/50 for the present (2010) senate split, and its likely very little has changed in those population proportions to date, except to improve proportions in favor of Rs.

If need be, I will go through state by state to re-calculate with latest figures, but still, my point was that your premise was flawed from the beginning, which doesn't matter much because you were trying to make a point about the system, which is likewise invalid.

EDIT: I took my senate office holders from here, only changing the Senator from Massachusetts
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
 
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Maybe MIPS post will help. I highlighted and enlarged the key parts so you won't have to read the whole thing. I know about your limited education and all.

As I pointed out earlier, reconciliation and the "Nuclear Option" are completely different things.



Please tell all of us what the difference is, Vast. I have a feeling it's going to be something interesting coming from you. Try not to embarrass yourself in doing so, OK?

First, he said the House could simply approve the Senate bill, sending it straight to President Obama's desk.

Then, Durbin said, the Senate could make changes to the bill by using the nuclear option, known formally as "reconciliation," a tactic that would allow Democrats to adjust parts of health care reform with just a 51-vote majority.

"We could go to something called 'reconciliation', which is in the weeds procedurally, but would allow us to modify that health care bill by a different process that doesn't require 60 votes, only a majority," Durbin said. "So that is one possibility there."

FOXNews.com - Top Senate Democrat Outlines 'Nuclear Option' Strategy for Health Care

Vast LWC is referring to a Bill Frist Style "Nuclear Option" not the "Nuclear Option" of the current lexicon (reconciliation). While they are indeed two different things, only an unhinged psychopath politician would suggest using the Frist style option for the Healthcare Bill.

It's fairly clear to most everyone that when the "Nuclear Option" is discussed with respect to the Health Care bill it's referring to reconciliation, well fairly clear to most everyone except Vast LWC that is.
 
Please tell all of us what the difference is, Vast. I have a feeling it's going to be something interesting coming from you. Try not to embarrass yourself in doing so, OK?

First, he said the House could simply approve the Senate bill, sending it straight to President Obama's desk.

Then, Durbin said, the Senate could make changes to the bill by using the nuclear option, known formally as "reconciliation," a tactic that would allow Democrats to adjust parts of health care reform with just a 51-vote majority.

"We could go to something called 'reconciliation', which is in the weeds procedurally, but would allow us to modify that health care bill by a different process that doesn't require 60 votes, only a majority," Durbin said. "So that is one possibility there."

FOXNews.com - Top Senate Democrat Outlines 'Nuclear Option' Strategy for Health Care

OK, seriously, you need to come to the realization that FoxNews prints whatever the hell it wants you to think.

Just go and check it out for yourself, stop letting FoxNews dictate what your opinion should be.

Here:

This is the Nuclear Option:

Nuclear option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In U.S. politics, the "nuclear option" is an attempt by a majority of the United States Senate to end a filibuster by invoking a point of order to essentially declare the filibuster unconstitutional which can be decided by a simple majority, rather than seeking formal cloture with a supermajority of 60 senators. Although it is not provided for in the formal rules of the Senate, the procedure is the subject of a 1957 parliamentary opinion and has been used on several occasions since. The term was coined by Senator Trent Lott (Republican of Mississippi) in 2005.

And this is reconciliation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Reconciliation is a legislative process of the United States Senate intended to allow a contentious budget bill to be considered without being subject to filibuster. Because reconciliation limits debate and amendment, the process empowers the majority party. Reconciliation also applies in the United States House of Representatives, but since the House regularly passes rules that constrain debate and amendment, the reconciliation process represented less of a change in that body.

See the difference?

As usual, in that article FoxNews is falsely claiming that Durbin wants to enact the "Nuclear Option" in an effort to garner ratings from their mainly right-wing viewers, and to attempt to stir public opinion against Democrats in case they do try to use reconciliation.
 
Have you noticed you are the only one in favor of this nuclear option? Not even the other liberals have stepped up to back you in this thread, Vast? Do you realize that it's not really being considered with the politicians? Are you really this stupid, or are you just pulling everyone's chain? Or what I suspect, your just another left wing nut goofball

I just brought up the idea. It has not even been discussed yet.

And if others on the left are not behind it yet, so what? I'm not allowed to have my own thoughts? I need to go by the Democratic talking points?

Sorry, that's not my way. I can think for myself. I've got a set of balls, unlike many Democratic Senators.

Sorry, democrats are not allowed to think for themselves.

They get their marching orders from left wing blogs.

See

Page 229888, section 2342 Paragraph 5433 Clause 2342 dsr line 6 of the communist err I mean democrat agreement for the soul
 
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Vast LWC is referring to a Bill Frist Style "Nuclear Option" not the "Nuclear Option" of the current lexicon (reconciliation). While they are indeed two different things, only an unhinged psychopath politician would suggest using the Frist style option for the Healthcare Bill.

It's fairly clear to most everyone that when the "Nuclear Option" is discussed with respect to the Health Care bill it's referring to reconciliation, well fairly clear to most everyone except Vast LWC that is.

Who is the "most everyone" that this is "fairly clear" to?

I had NEVER heard the term Nuclear Option used to refer to reconciliation until FoxNews just used it in this story.

Please show me an instance where it was used to describe reconciliation by any credible source.
 
Doesn't matter. Pelosi announced this AM she doesn't have the votes to pass healthcare. I guess some Dums finally got bright and realized what was flying and backed out.
Health care is dead. Dee Eee Dee dead.
 
In any case Pelosi said she didn't have the votes for it.
 
Sorry, democrats are not allowed to think for themselves.

They get their marching orders from left wing blogs.

See

Page 229888, secion 2342 Paragraph 5433 Clause 2342 dsr line 6 of the communist err I mean democrat agreement for the soul

LOL.

(yeah, sure it's offensive to my type, but it's still funny)
 
Awe... geee. That's too bad. Maybe they can now get about fixing SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, the deficit, terrorism, etc. You know, the inconsequential shit!
 
The Mass. voters have handed Obama a major defeat for his progressive agenda....Teddy Kennedy would be proud!!!!!
 
Sorry, democrats are not allowed to think for themselves.

They get their marching orders from left wing blogs.

See

Page 229888, secion 2342 Paragraph 5433 Clause 2342 dsr line 6 of the communist err I mean democrat agreement for the soul

LOL.

(yeah, sure it's offensive to my type, but it's still funny)

Thanks, I appreciate a good audience.
 
Ya gotta love it... now Obammy is travelling to Nevada to put the kiss of death on Dingy Harry. And we thought Clinton sealed your fate when he campaigned for you!!!
 
More false bravado from the Dem loons. They're actually about to quit on their terrible health care debacle. Many Democrats want this thing dead as well. It really is a massive indecipherable boondoggle in the end. No one is ever going to read it or ever understand it. It's actually pretty hard to fathom how Reid & Pelosi could screw things up so bad. Their debacle was just too damn big and did nothing to reduce health care costs. I'm pretty sure they're going to take Scott Brown's advice and go back to the drawing board on this thing. Hopefully this time the Democrats will unlock those meeting room doors and let the Republicans in to present some new ideas. With Pelosi & Reid still running things,i'm not too optimistic about that happening. This debacle is dead though and that's good enough for me at this point.
 
Please tell all of us what the difference is, Vast. I have a feeling it's going to be something interesting coming from you. Try not to embarrass yourself in doing so, OK?

First, he said the House could simply approve the Senate bill, sending it straight to President Obama's desk.

Then, Durbin said, the Senate could make changes to the bill by using the nuclear option, known formally as "reconciliation," a tactic that would allow Democrats to adjust parts of health care reform with just a 51-vote majority.

"We could go to something called 'reconciliation', which is in the weeds procedurally, but would allow us to modify that health care bill by a different process that doesn't require 60 votes, only a majority," Durbin said. "So that is one possibility there."

FOXNews.com - Top Senate Democrat Outlines 'Nuclear Option' Strategy for Health Care

OK, seriously, you need to come to the realization that FoxNews prints whatever the hell it wants you to think.

Just go and check it out for yourself, stop letting FoxNews dictate what your opinion should be.

Here:

This is the Nuclear Option:

Nuclear option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In U.S. politics, the "nuclear option" is an attempt by a majority of the United States Senate to end a filibuster by invoking a point of order to essentially declare the filibuster unconstitutional which can be decided by a simple majority, rather than seeking formal cloture with a supermajority of 60 senators. Although it is not provided for in the formal rules of the Senate, the procedure is the subject of a 1957 parliamentary opinion and has been used on several occasions since. The term was coined by Senator Trent Lott (Republican of Mississippi) in 2005.

And this is reconciliation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Reconciliation is a legislative process of the United States Senate intended to allow a contentious budget bill to be considered without being subject to filibuster. Because reconciliation limits debate and amendment, the process empowers the majority party. Reconciliation also applies in the United States House of Representatives, but since the House regularly passes rules that constrain debate and amendment, the reconciliation process represented less of a change in that body.

See the difference?

As usual, in that article FoxNews is falsely claiming that Durbin wants to enact the "Nuclear Option" in an effort to garner ratings from their mainly right-wing viewers, and to attempt to stir public opinion against Democrats in case they do try to use reconciliation.

Vast your getting your ass kicked in this thread. WAKE UP!!!!! Take off those partisan shades for awhile....think it's just Fox New? I have to laugh at your lack of.... intellect on this.


Based on that information Ways and Means Republicans sought to offer amendments to the House Democrats’ healthcare bill yesterday. Unfortunately those amendments and the voices of the American people were shut out when Ways and Means Democrats rammed through a letter instructing the House Budget Committee to consider healthcare under reconciliation – which requires only 51 votes for Senate passage as opposed to the normal 60 votes. In taking this nuclear option on healthcare, House Democrat leaders sent a clear signal that they plan to go it alone – without the support of the American people, without bipartisan support and without the support of many of their fellow Democrats.
House Democrats pull 'nuclear option? on healthcare (Rep. Dave Camp) - The Hill's Congress Blog

Just google healthcare nuclear option.....:lol:
 
Vast LWC is referring to a Bill Frist Style "Nuclear Option" not the "Nuclear Option" of the current lexicon (reconciliation). While they are indeed two different things, only an unhinged psychopath politician would suggest using the Frist style option for the Healthcare Bill.

It's fairly clear to most everyone that when the "Nuclear Option" is discussed with respect to the Health Care bill it's referring to reconciliation, well fairly clear to most everyone except Vast LWC that is.

Who is the "most everyone" that this is "fairly clear" to?

I had NEVER heard the term Nuclear Option used to refer to reconciliation until FoxNews just used it in this story.

Please show me an instance where it was used to describe reconciliation by any credible source.

I've showed you 2 sources and just because your uneducated in the matter doesn't make any less so in the facts that the two are one in the same, Vast.
Go pound sand, dude
 
15th post
Dem false bravado at its finest. They're actually about to quit on their awful boondoggle. Don't let em fool ya. Their boondoggle is dead and that's a good thing. Good to see em taking Scott Brown's advice. Back to the drawing board for sure.
 
The healthcare nuclear option will never happen at this point....Senator Brown (R) put a stop to it. The Dem's realize that their house of cards has fallen...and it ain't getting up.
 
Doesn't matter. Pelosi announced this AM she doesn't have the votes to pass healthcare. I guess some Dums finally got bright and realized what was flying and backed out.
Health care is dead. Dee Eee Dee dead.

Now if the wicked witch would just go along...
 
Two Words: False Bravado. The Democrats will not resort to the "Nuclear Option" instead they will likely take Scott Brown's advice and go back to the drawing board on their debacle. Maybe this time they can unlock those meeting room doors and allow the Republicans to finally have a say. Their debacle really is dead. It's time for the Kool-Aiders to get over it and move on.
 
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