Two Questions that non-LGBT-Q Supporters of Trans Rights Must Answer to be Credible

[Seymour Flops]

Actually, it was more complicated than that. Her white parents adopted black foster children, and treated them better than they treated her. Which is why she had racial identity issues. It was kind of messed up, really. But she was in some small city in Washington, and no one noticed she was wearing a white-fro.

Bigots always try to obscure the point that Rachel was not accepted for the black woman as which she identified, and that kind of bigotry is what led to her self-esteem issues.

So, let me ask you point blank: Do you accept Rachel as a black woman or are you a bigot?

Except a lot of these girls start abusing themselves to compete in these pagaents long before adulthood. Remember Jon Benet Ramsey? That was just... creepy.

Yes, I often think we should have reacted more strongly to the way pageant stage moms treated their children in their absurd quest to live vicariously. We should be reacting more strongly to the way transgenderization stage moms are now treating their children.

If a pageant mom wanted their daughter to get puberty blockers for one year in order to compete for one more season as a child, you would be able to see how wrong that is. At least I hope you would. But you claim to see no issue with years of puberty blockers that prevent normal development.

Um, okay, who is using force? Your employer? I guess, they don't want you to cost them millions of dollars in lawsuits..

So, in that case it is the trial lawyers who are using force on my employer. I know you like the use of force if it gets people to comply with what you want, and keep their mouths shut about it. That's the Democrat way.

You see, I used to work with a gay woman, who got fired after management found out she was gay. She had worked for the company for 14 years and did a fantastic job to the point where she was promoted several times. I've known gay people who've been beaten up by the bigots.

So please don't come whining to me if HR has a little talk with you because you refused to call Sally who used to be Sam by her preferred pronouns.

So I'm not allowed to complain about a wrong, because there have been other much worse wrong in the past and present? You are literally saying that only the top wrong in the world can be addressed?

What you beleive is your own business... you guys live in a weird alternate reality where Global Warming isn't a thing, Trump was a good president, and dinosaurs coexisted with humans.

But you have to respect other's legal standing.

"Legal standing?" I'd bet serious money that Lia Thomas birth certificate still says "male." If so, do you respect that legal standing?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What you beleive is your own business... you guys live in a weird alternate reality where Global Warming isn't a thing, Trump was a good president, and dinosaurs coexisted with humans.

And you believe that boys can be girls, and girls can be boys, which is far more batshit crazy than anything that we believe, far more batshit crazy than even your most extravagant lies and exaggerations about what we believe.

You're not exactly in a good place to be castings aspersions on anyone else's mental health.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Here's a third question:

Mom takes a child just entering puberty to the Gender Specialist's office. The Doctor says, "Why don't you first tell me your preferred name and pronouns, and then why you're here, and how I can help?"

"Why I'm here? I'm here because this crazy woman brought me here, that's why. When I was seven, I made the mistake of saying I'd rather play baseball than softball because the girls team sucked, and Batguano here decided I'm really a boy. I was born a girl, and a girl is all I want to be. Which is lucky, since I WILL always be a girl and nothing you can do could ever change that. If you wanna help, tell Krazy to stop cutting my hair and picking my clothes. Buy me a dress already. You know how embarassing it is to go to my dad's church looking like an eleven year old lumberjack?"

How will the gender specialist respond?

a) "Ma'am, it seems that your daughter is very comfortable with who she is. I recommend a mother-daughter lunch at Olive garden, and some family therapy."

or

b) Ma'am, we often see this kind of denial mixed with hostility and it strongly indicates that the patient suffers from Gender Dysphoria. It is a form of self-hatred that is a precurser to suicidal ideation. It is vital that we start the puberty blockers immediately. I'll send my nurse in with the first dose. Uh . . . you do have insurance, right?"

 

[badger2]

Putin just put a leash on crotch-clownism gone 'nannas:

24 Jul 2023 Putin Signs Law Banning Gender Reassignment

Putin Signs Law Banning Gender Reassignment

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday signed a law banning gender reassignment in all cases except when allowed for health reasons.

sputnikglobe.com

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Two Questions that non-LGBT-Q Supporters of Trans Rights Must Answer to be Credible…

Anyone who claims that a man can be a woman, or that a woman can be a man, has already forfeited any and all credibility.

There is no question that such a creature can address, no answer that one can give, to restore that credibility.

 

[JoeB131]

Bigots always try to obscure the point that Rachel was not accepted for the black woman as which she identified, and that kind of bigotry is what led to her self-esteem issues.

So, let me ask you point blank: Do you accept Rachel as a black woman or are you a bigot?

Sure, why not?

Yes, I often think we should have reacted more strongly to the way pageant stage moms treated their children in their absurd quest to live vicariously. We should be reacting more strongly to the way transgenderization stage moms are now treating their children.

If a pageant mom wanted their daughter to get puberty blockers for one year in order to compete for one more season as a child, you would be able to see how wrong that is. At least I hope you would. But you claim to see no issue with years of puberty blockers that prevent normal development.

Except there's no medical good reason to put a child on a puberty blocker to allow her to compete in a child pagaent.

On the other hand, there are good reasons if the child legitimately has gender dysphoria. In fact, it's easier to treat before puberty sets in. So while I would agree that we do need stricter medical scrutiny and better training for health care providers, making policy on the "I think it's icky" theory isn't sound policy.

So, in that case it is the trial lawyers who are using force on my employer. I know you like the use of force if it gets people to comply with what you want, and keep their mouths shut about it. That's the Democrat way.

Both parties are fine with using force to "get their way".

So I'm not allowed to complain about a wrong, because there have been other much worse wrong in the past and present? You are literally saying that only the top wrong in the world can be addressed?

You haven't proven to me that you are really being wronged by being required to comport yourself professionally in the workplace. No one made you take that job.

"Legal standing?" I'd bet serious money that Lia Thomas birth certificate still says "male." If so, do you respect that legal standing?

Well, no, that birth certificate refers to a dead-name. So it clearly has no legal standing.

And you believe that boys can be girls, and girls can be boys,

You believe you are wearing Magic Underwear and Joseph Smith was talking to God. That's some crazy shit right there.

 

[JoeB131]

Here's a third question:

Mom takes a child just entering puberty to the Gender Specialist's office. The Doctor says, "Why don't you first tell me your preferred name and pronouns, and then why you're here, and how I can help?"

"Why I'm here? I'm here because this crazy woman brought me here, that's why. When I was seven, I made the mistake of saying I'd rather play baseball than softball because the girls team sucked, and Batguano here decided I'm really a boy. I was born a girl, and a girl is all I want to be. Which is lucky, since I WILL always be a girl and nothing you can do could ever change that. If you wanna help, tell Krazy to stop cutting my hair and picking my clothes. Buy me a dress already. You know how embarassing it is to go to my dad's church looking like an eleven year old lumberjack?"

How will the gender specialist respond?

a) "Ma'am, it seems that your daughter is very comfortable with who she is. I recommend a mother-daughter lunch at Olive garden, and some family therapy."

or

b) Ma'am, we often see this kind of denial mixed with hostility and it strongly indicates that the patient suffers from Gender Dysphoria. It is a form of self-hatred that is a precurser to suicidal ideation. It is vital that we start the puberty blockers immediately. I'll send my nurse in with the first dose. Uh . . . you do have insurance, right?"

If the scenario you describe happened, that would be malpractice on the part of the medical provider, and they should sue his pants off.

Of course, that's not even what happened with celebrity de-transitioners like Chloe Brockman. Brockman insisted up and down she was a boy, and when the first doctor refused to give her the hormone therapy, she stomped her little feet until her parents brought her to a different doctor.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And you believe that boys can be girls, and girls can be boys…

You believe you are wearing Magic Underwear and Joseph Smith was talking to God. That's some crazy shit right there.

And exactly as I said before, even if what I actually believed was anything close to your lies and distortions about what I believe, it is still not anywhere near as batshit crazy as believing that a boy can be a girl or vice versa.

You truly are in no position at all to cast any aspersions on anyone else's mental health. You are far more fucked-up mentally than your most extravagant lies and distortions are able to try to make me or anyone else out to be,.

 

[Seymour Flops]

If the scenario you describe happened, that would be malpractice on the part of the medical provider, and they should sue his pants off.

If you mean the second scenario, that's already happening.

Of course, that's not even what happened with celebrity de-transitioners like Chloe Brockman. Brockman insisted up and down she was a boy, and when the first doctor refused to give her the hormone therapy, she stomped her little feet until her parents brought her to a different doctor.

Yes, exactly. Children should not be permitted to make decisions like that. Not even if parents and profit-motivated doctors agree it's a great idea to have a child make such a life-altering decision.

If a child stamps their little feet until their parents let them drive a car with no license, no seat belt, smoking a blunt, and drinking tequila, they and the parents are going to be in legal trouble, even if they produce a doctors note that says this kid is perfectly mature enough to make good decisions.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Pro-trans boomers, behold the future you are creating for your grandsons:

 

[JoeB131]

And exactly as I said before, even if what I actually believed was anything close to your lies and distortions about what I believe, it is still not anywhere near as batshit crazy as believing that a boy can be a girl or vice versa.

Frankly, it sounds like your hangup.

So the questions I keep asking, that you avoid.

1) Have you ever talked to a trans person to understand their point of view?
2) What effect does this have on your life at all?

You truly are in no position at all to cast any aspersions on anyone else's mental health. You are far more fucked-up mentally than your most extravagant lies and distortions are able to try to make me or anyone else out to be,.

Uh, yeah, you want to murder women for having abortions... I think your crazy speaks loud and clear.

If you mean the second scenario, that's already happening.

Well, no, it really doesn't. In fact, most trans-kids don't get any kind of medical treatment. of 300,000 trans kids in this country, only 15,000 of them are getting any medical treatment at all.

Now, are there mistakes? Yup. 96,000 Americans die every year because of medical mistakes. Doesn't mean we give up on medicine.

Yes, exactly. Children should not be permitted to make decisions like that. Not even if parents and profit-motivated doctors agree it's a great idea to have a child make such a life-altering decision.

If a child stamps their little feet until their parents let them drive a car with no license, no seat belt, smoking a blunt, and drinking tequila, they and the parents are going to be in legal trouble, even if they produce a doctors note that says this kid is perfectly mature enough to make good decisions.

Why stop at Gender-Confirmation treatments? Let's close down St. Jude because hey, those kids can't really meaningfully consent to painful cancer treatments that will no doubt lead to a lifetime of health problems. If you live to be 18, MAYBE we'll give you that chemotherapy, Timmy.

You may scoff, but they've already given out huge damages in "Wrongful life" lawsuits, where someone sued a doctor for not recommending abortions for severe defects.

$50 Million Verdict Awarded in Wrongful Birth Case

A $50 million jury verdict was recently awarded to a Washington state couple after their child was born with a genetic defect.

www.wilsonlaw.com

Earlier this month, a jury in King County, Washington awarded $50 million to a couple whose son was born with severe mental and physical disabilities – an unprecedented jury verdict for this type of case. The case itself was also incredibly unique.

In this case, the father had a rare genetic defect in his family line – his cousin was found to have a defect known as an unbalanced chromosome translocation. As a result, any children he would have would be at risk – and he and his wife were told that there would be a 50/50 chance of such a defect occurring in their own children. Given this alarming news, the couple closely followed all medical recommendations, including genetic counseling and testing. When the man’s wife became pregnant, medical professionals told the couple that genetic tests pronounced their child as normal.

Unfortunately, this was not the case. As soon as their son was born, it became apparent that he had the genetic defect, and was born with severe mental and physical disabilities as a result. Valley Medical Center and Laboratory Corporation of America (LabCorp) became the responsible parties.

 

[JoeB131]

Pro-trans boomers, behold the future you are creating for your grandsons:

Honestly, if you haven't figured it out until THAT point, that's kind of on you.

Oh, wait, you think all those Jerry Springer shows where "I'm really a man" were real, don't you? Those were all actors.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Well, no, it really doesn't. In fact, most trans-kids don't get any kind of medical treatment. of 300,000 trans kids in this country, only 15,000 of them are getting any medical treatment at all.

Now, are there mistakes? Yup. 96,000 Americans die every year because of medical mistakes. Doesn't mean we give up on medicine.

My meaning was that adults are now suing transgender specialists for what was done to them as children.

Why stop at Gender-Confirmation treatments? Let's close down St. Jude because hey, those kids can't really meaningfully consent to painful cancer treatments that will no doubt lead to a lifetime of health problems. If you live to be 18, MAYBE we'll give you that chemotherapy, Timmy.

Wow, did you really compare removing cancerous breasts from a 15 year old girl with removing healthy breasts from a 15 year old girl? Why, yes you did. So I'll roll my eyes and explain it to you knowing that you already know the difference.

Mastectomies, are unpleasant, painful, and life-altering. They can do serious harm to self-esteem and be devastating for a person who is not in a caring committed relationship which will provide support. As with any surgery, there is also a risk of complications. Knowing that, we have to look at the downside of not performing a mastectomy.

In the case of breast cancer the downside is death. There is Decades of research and experience to show that mastectomies prevent deaths, if the breasts are indeed cancerous. Therefore, parents and doctors can confidently state that having a mastectomy is a lifesaving procedure in such cases.

In the case of a 15-year-old girl who identifies as a boy the downside is that she would have to wait to have her body mutilated for a non-medical reason. There is zero evidence of any other for a 15 year old girl not having healthy breasts removed as far as I know.

You may scoff, but they've already given out huge damages in "Wrongful life" lawsuits, where someone sued a doctor for not recommending abortions for severe defects.

$50 Million Verdict Awarded in Wrongful Birth Case

A $50 million jury verdict was recently awarded to a Washington state couple after their child was born with a genetic defect.

www.wilsonlaw.com

Earlier this month, a jury in King County, Washington awarded $50 million to a couple whose son was born with severe mental and physical disabilities – an unprecedented jury verdict for this type of case. The case itself was also incredibly unique.

In this case, the father had a rare genetic defect in his family line – his cousin was found to have a defect known as an unbalanced chromosome translocation. As a result, any children he would have would be at risk – and he and his wife were told that there would be a 50/50 chance of such a defect occurring in their own children. Given this alarming news, the couple closely followed all medical recommendations, including genetic counseling and testing. When the man’s wife became pregnant, medical professionals told the couple that genetic tests pronounced their child as normal.

Unfortunately, this was not the case. As soon as their son was born, it became apparent that he had the genetic defect, and was born with severe mental and physical disabilities as a result. Valley Medical Center and Laboratory Corporation of America (LabCorp) became the responsible parties.

Sounds like an interesting topic to start a threat about. I will certainly read that thread if you started.

Back on the topic, suppose a 15 year old girl did not want an actual penis, but a tattoo of an erect penis on her tummy such that it would appear to be sticking out of her bathing suit. Is that a decision that she should be allowed to make? Keep in mind that you believe she should be able to make the decision to have her vagina mutilated into an attempt at an artificial penis or to have her breasts removed and reconstructed into a male looking chest.

Having asserted that, I'm wondering how you could criticize the tattoo idea, if you disagree with it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So the questions I keep asking, that you avoid.
1) Have you ever talked to a trans person to understand their point of view?

What would be the point?

What value can there possibly be in having someone with a severe, delusional mental illness trying to make me understand his delusions?

As a hard, undeniable fact, anyone who believes that a boy can be a girl, or vice versa, is seriously fucked in the head.

Uh, yeah, you want to murder women for having abortions... I think your crazy speaks loud and clear.

It is bizarre how you delusionally imagine that you have any high ground to claim, by taking the side of those who murder the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings and in condemning me for calling for these murderers to be brought to proper justice.

But then that is not at all out of your general character which has always been to take the side of subhuman criminal shit, against the side of human beings. And those who would murder innocent children are the very lowest of subhuman filth, so it is no surprise that it is with that filth that you most strongly align.

And once again, your attempt to smear me as “crazy” simply are nothing compared to te crazy that you openly and unabashedly display, in denying the difference between men and women.

 

[HeyNorm]

What would be the point?

What value can there possibly be in having someone with a severe, delusional mental illness trying to make me understand his delusions?

As a hard, undeniable fact, anyone who believes that a boy can be a girl, or vice versa, is seriously fucked in the head.




It is bizarre how you delusionally imagine that you have any high ground to claim, by taking the side of those who murder the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings and in condemning me for calling for these murderers to be brought to proper justice.

But then that is not at all out of your general character which has always been to take the side of subhuman criminal shit, against the side of human beings. And those who would murder innocent children are the very lowest of subhuman filth, so it is no surprise that it is with that filth that you most strongly align.

And once again, your attempt to smear me as “crazy” simply are nothing compared to te crazy that you openly and unabashedly display, in denying the difference between men and women.

I’ve yet to hear a reasonable argument as to how a minor can possible make a decision about going through their entire remaining life without fully functioning sex organs before they have them or experience intercourse.

Because there is none. They simply can’t b

 

[ActionJackson]

There are two questions that should be required before you even discuss how you think that transgender people should have all rights and privileges enjoyed by cisgender people of the gender they are transitioning to.

For this thread, I'll talk about transwomen who want to be able to use which ever bathroom, changing room, or locker room they choose. Specifically, biological men who identify as women and expect others to affirm that by saying nothing when they go into private women's spaces.

If you support that, your two questions are:

1) How far along in the transition does a bio-male have to be for us to have to accept that they are a woman or girl? Do they have to dress like a woman? All the time, or can they just change into a girl's swimsuit for the meet, and otherwise avoid feminine cothes or makeup? Does it not even matter because "girls clothes" and "boys clothes" are just social constructs anyway?

I'm chubby, bearded, balding, and wear men's clothes. If I were to walk into a women's bathroom or locker room, and there are people around who notice me walking in, should they say anything, either to me or to management? Or should they assume that by walking into the women's room, I indicate that I am a transwoman and mind their own business? If they ask and I tell them I'm trans, should that be the end of the discussion?

If that is not enough, then where do you draw the line?

2) Would you have sex with a pro-op transwoman? Assume that - other than having a penis - she is attractive enough for you to be interested if the opportunity was there. If you're married or otherwise committed, you can still answer the question as a hypothetical. I'm happily married also, but we won't go to heck or have to sleep on the couch if we speculate about whether we'd have sex with the St Pauli Girl vs. the Bud Lite Girl.

These questions are key to your being sincere abut supporting transwomen and girls "rights" to female private spaces. If you would not have sex with a pre-op trans because the penis would make you so uncomfortable that you could not enjoy sex, then you have no business at all ridiculing and mocking a fourteen year old girl who would be uncomfortable in a locker room with a girl or woman with a penis.

When I see a person with a clear and obvious mental illness (whether it be a “trans” person or a knife-wielding psychopath), I say to myself: “This person is Effed Up” and I avoid them like the plague. I don't insert myself into THEIR fantasy and pretend that what they're doing is normal just because CNN or Biden tells me to.

Hopefully, that answers both questions.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I’ve yet to hear a reasonable argument as to how a minor can possible make a decision about going through their entire remaking life without fully functioning sex organs before they have them or experience intercourse.

And you never will.

There's not even a reasonable argument as to why an adult should go through this shit.

It is biologically impossible to turn a man into a woman, or a woman into a man. The quasi-medical procedures that purport to do so, in fact, do no such thing; all they do is destroy healthy organs and systems, and create a lifetime of ongoing medical issues. I don't believe that there's any way for even an adult to fully understand and consent to it, much less a person who is so mentally unsound as to seek to change his sex, and much less than that, a minor.

Pink-haired Portland surgeon who performs sex-change surgery on trans CHILDREN admits they face lifetime of infertility, incontinence and sexual dissatisfaction, in now-deleted video

Portland surgeon reveals drawbacks of genital trans ops on kids

Dr Blair Peters, a self-described 'queer surgeon' with 'he/they' pronouns, pink hair and a 'passion' for genital surgeries, revealed that patients face lifelong post-op complications.

www.dailymail.co.uk

You really have to be pretty badly fucked in the head to think that anything about this is a good idea.

 

[JoeB131]

My meaning was that adults are now suing transgender specialists for what was done to them as children.

Yes, a very few of them. They'll lose, because they had parental consent and the minor insisted they were the other gender.

Wow, did you really compare removing cancerous breasts from a 15 year old girl with removing healthy breasts from a 15 year old girl? Why, yes you did. So I'll roll my eyes and explain it to you knowing that you already know the difference.

I did nothing of the sort. I just pointed out that once you allow adults to second guess medical treatments they got as children, you've pretty much made pediatric medicine impossible. Given the high rate of suicide among transgender people who don't get treatment, non-treatment of Gender Dysphoria can be as fatal as non-treatment for cancer.

Suicide Risk Reduces 73% in Transgender, Nonbinary Youths with Gender-Affirming Care

Transgender and nonbinary youths, a population with an exceptional risk of suicide and poor mental health outcomes, were found to have 60% lower odds of depression after receiving gender-affirming intervention.

www.hcplive.com

In the case of breast cancer the downside is death. There is Decades of research and experience to show that mastectomies prevent deaths, if the breasts are indeed cancerous. Therefore, parents and doctors can confidently state that having a mastectomy is a lifesaving procedure in such cases.

There's also substantial evidence that gender affirming care given early can reduce suicide risks.

Suicide Risk Reduces 73% in Transgender, Nonbinary Youths with Gender-Affirming Care

Transgender and nonbinary youths, a population with an exceptional risk of suicide and poor mental health outcomes, were found to have 60% lower odds of depression after receiving gender-affirming intervention.

www.hcplive.com

Sounds like an interesting topic to start a threat about. I will certainly read that thread if you started.

Not at all... Once you get into "My parents made medical decisions for me I disagree with, so I'm suing", pediatric medicine will be a thing of the past. No one would take the liability.

Back on the topic, suppose a 15 year old girl did not want an actual penis, but a tattoo of an erect penis on her tummy such that it would appear to be sticking out of her bathing suit. Is that a decision that she should be allowed to make? Keep in mind that you believe she should be able to make the decision to have her vagina mutilated into an attempt at an artificial penis or to have her breasts removed and reconstructed into a male looking chest.

Well, that's an easy one. A tatoo provides no medical benefit. Gender affirming care does.

 

[JoeB131]

What would be the point?
What value can there possibly be in having someone with a severe, delusional mental illness trying to make me understand his delusions?
As a hard, undeniable fact, anyone who believes that a boy can be a girl, or vice versa, is seriously fucked in the head.

Frankly, thinking Joseph Smith was talking to God is pretty fucked in the head, but hey, I still engage you Mutants, anyway.
It's a hard undeniable fact that Joseph Smith was a two-bit con-man who started believing his own bullshit.
Still, I do try hard to understand your delusions... it's been.. instructional.

It is bizarre how you delusionally imagine that you have any high ground to claim, by taking the side of those who murder the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings and in condemning me for calling for these murderers to be brought to proper justice.

Fetuses aren't children. Even when abortion was against the law, no one arrested women for having them or charged them with murder. So you essentially want to create a new law.

But then that is not at all out of your general character which has always been to take the side of subhuman criminal shit, against the side of human beings. And those who would murder innocent children are the very lowest of subhuman filth, so it is no surprise that it is with that filth that you most strongly align.

Again, morality is a matter of circumstance. You've had a pretty good life, and you still come off as half a sociopath. If you had real hardship, you'd be a hate crime looking for a place to happen.

And once again, your attempt to smear me as “crazy” simply are nothing compared to te crazy that you openly and unabashedly display, in denying the difference between men and women.

Except no one denied the difference between men and women... I just realized that some people are transgender and most people are cisgender.

 

[ActionJackson]

Fetuses aren't children. Even when abortion was against the law, no one arrested women for having them or charged them with murder. So you essentially want to create a new law.

It is illegal to destroy an eagle’s egg. Fines are as high as $5,000 and imprisonment up to 3 years.

Is an eagle's egg and eagle?