Two Proud Gun Nuts Second-Amendment Each Other To Death In Road Rage Incident

[2aguy]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

I'm not sure you are even doing your math correctly. There are 15 studies because the CDC did not do a study on DGUs as you have been corrected on many times. So when I average them I get about 1.6 million. Adjusted for today's crime rates it's probably a million. If you removed the la times cause it doesn't seem to exist and the field cause it's not national, add in the ncvs and adjust for today's crime rates it is under a million. You'd do those things if you wanted to be accurate.

the CDC did not do a study on DGUs

They spent 10 million dollars under obama's orders in 2013 to study all the gun research on defensive gun uses and the other gun topics.......so yes, they do count.....so in reality, they did the research and confirmed the actual high numbers of defensive gun uses each year.........they did not support the NCVS number that you keep prattling on about......

And the L.A. times study.....you didn't even try to find it......I posted all of the research that is easily postable online, and linked to studies you can pay for to see........

Reality and the truth keeps showing that you are wrong brain...the average of non military, non police shootings is 2 million a year..........with each study showing numbers that do not go under 764,000.

The research was done over 40 years, by both government and private researchers....actual researchers....into the subject of self defense use of guns....

You anti gun extremists hate those facts...because they show you are wrong in everything you say about guns and self defense.....

 

[2aguy]

I am usually a compassionate person, however this is one instance that leaves me feeling only disgust. Stupid, ignorant people can shoot at one another all day long, but do it where innocent bystanders can't be hurt or killed!

Tell that to the gang members...of course they are using guns they can't legally own or carry or shoot.....so good luck with that...

And since over 12.8 million Americans now carry guns for self defense, and the gun murder rate is going down, not up....I think Americans are responsible gun owners...it is gangs in democrat controlled cities you have to work on...and in Chicago, they are picking the aldermen running their precincts, and using them to keep the police force levels low, and to keep them from arresting their gang members.....

 

[Brain357]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

I'm not sure you are even doing your math correctly. There are 15 studies because the CDC did not do a study on DGUs as you have been corrected on many times. So when I average them I get about 1.6 million. Adjusted for today's crime rates it's probably a million. If you removed the la times cause it doesn't seem to exist and the field cause it's not national, add in the ncvs and adjust for today's crime rates it is under a million. You'd do those things if you wanted to be accurate.

the CDC did not do a study on DGUs

They spent 10 million dollars under obama's orders in 2013 to study all the gun research on defensive gun uses and the other gun topics.......so yes, they do count.....so in reality, they did the research and confirmed the actual high numbers of defensive gun uses each year.........they did not support the NCVS number that you keep prattling on about......

And the L.A. times study.....you didn't even try to find it......I posted all of the research that is easily postable online, and linked to studies you can pay for to see........

Reality and the truth keeps showing that you are wrong brain...the average of non military, non police shootings is 2 million a year..........with each study showing numbers that do not go under 764,000.

The research was done over 40 years, by both government and private researchers....actual researchers....into the subject of self defense use of guns....

You anti gun extremists hate those facts...because they show you are wrong in everything you say about guns and self defense.....

Stating what other studies have found is not a new study. Are you really this stupid?

* The CDC report made no effort to reconcile the differing estimates of DGUs, except to note that the estimate provided by the Kleck group was larger by an order of magnitude than the estimate arising from the NCVS. The CDC report noted that the estimate of DGU provided by the Kleck group is twice again as large as the estimate of the Dept. of Justice that there are 1.3 million crimes committed with a gun in the USA every year.

 

[2aguy]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

I'm not sure you are even doing your math correctly. There are 15 studies because the CDC did not do a study on DGUs as you have been corrected on many times. So when I average them I get about 1.6 million. Adjusted for today's crime rates it's probably a million. If you removed the la times cause it doesn't seem to exist and the field cause it's not national, add in the ncvs and adjust for today's crime rates it is under a million. You'd do those things if you wanted to be accurate.

the CDC did not do a study on DGUs

They spent 10 million dollars under obama's orders in 2013 to study all the gun research on defensive gun uses and the other gun topics.......so yes, they do count.....so in reality, they did the research and confirmed the actual high numbers of defensive gun uses each year.........they did not support the NCVS number that you keep prattling on about......

And the L.A. times study.....you didn't even try to find it......I posted all of the research that is easily postable online, and linked to studies you can pay for to see........

Reality and the truth keeps showing that you are wrong brain...the average of non military, non police shootings is 2 million a year..........with each study showing numbers that do not go under 764,000.

The research was done over 40 years, by both government and private researchers....actual researchers....into the subject of self defense use of guns....

You anti gun extremists hate those facts...because they show you are wrong in everything you say about guns and self defense.....

Stating what other studies have found is not a new study. Are you really this stupid?

* The CDC report made no effort to reconcile the differing estimates of DGUs, except to note that the estimate provided by the Kleck group was larger by an order of magnitude than the estimate arising from the NCVS. The CDC report noted that the estimate of DGU provided by the Kleck group is twice again as large as the estimate of the Dept. of Justice that there are 1.3 million crimes committed with a gun in the USA every year.

Lying again brain.....you always forget to mention the studies that show Kleck is just one study that shows over 1.5 million.....the 1.5 million was the number the clinton Department of Justice study found to be the number.....

The estimate of the NCVS is crap...why? Because it isn't a gun study, and never asks about defensive gun use...just to start, then as the dailykos points out, they underestimate all other crimes they research as well...

I am always curious why you guys just focus on Kleck....considering he is one of 16 who puts the numbers that high.....what is your fixation with him?

 

[westwall]

[
So you agree a society without guns is safer than a society with guns?

a society without sex has less STDs than one with it

lets stick to reality and real scenarios

a society without guns is one where strong young men rule and women and the elderly have no ability to resist. being a black belt with years of knife training, a gun free society would make me a lot more powerful than I am now. an armed society is a polite society , women wouldn't want a society without guns

Gee, strangely enough, Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher both were able to head governments of societies that had few guns on the streets.

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

 

[2aguy]

[
So you agree a society without guns is safer than a society with guns?

a society without sex has less STDs than one with it

lets stick to reality and real scenarios

a society without guns is one where strong young men rule and women and the elderly have no ability to resist. being a black belt with years of knife training, a gun free society would make me a lot more powerful than I am now. an armed society is a polite society , women wouldn't want a society without guns

Gee, strangely enough, Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher both were able to head governments of societies that had few guns on the streets.

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

 

[Brain357]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

I'm not sure you are even doing your math correctly. There are 15 studies because the CDC did not do a study on DGUs as you have been corrected on many times. So when I average them I get about 1.6 million. Adjusted for today's crime rates it's probably a million. If you removed the la times cause it doesn't seem to exist and the field cause it's not national, add in the ncvs and adjust for today's crime rates it is under a million. You'd do those things if you wanted to be accurate.

the CDC did not do a study on DGUs

They spent 10 million dollars under obama's orders in 2013 to study all the gun research on defensive gun uses and the other gun topics.......so yes, they do count.....so in reality, they did the research and confirmed the actual high numbers of defensive gun uses each year.........they did not support the NCVS number that you keep prattling on about......

And the L.A. times study.....you didn't even try to find it......I posted all of the research that is easily postable online, and linked to studies you can pay for to see........

Reality and the truth keeps showing that you are wrong brain...the average of non military, non police shootings is 2 million a year..........with each study showing numbers that do not go under 764,000.

The research was done over 40 years, by both government and private researchers....actual researchers....into the subject of self defense use of guns....

You anti gun extremists hate those facts...because they show you are wrong in everything you say about guns and self defense.....

Stating what other studies have found is not a new study. Are you really this stupid?

* The CDC report made no effort to reconcile the differing estimates of DGUs, except to note that the estimate provided by the Kleck group was larger by an order of magnitude than the estimate arising from the NCVS. The CDC report noted that the estimate of DGU provided by the Kleck group is twice again as large as the estimate of the Dept. of Justice that there are 1.3 million crimes committed with a gun in the USA every year.

Lying again brain.....you always forget to mention the studies that show Kleck is just one study that shows over 1.5 million.....the 1.5 million was the number the clinton Department of Justice study found to be the number.....

The estimate of the NCVS is crap...why? Because it isn't a gun study, and never asks about defensive gun use...just to start, then as the dailykos points out, they underestimate all other crimes they research as well...

I am always curious why you guys just focus on Kleck....considering he is one of 16 who puts the numbers that high.....what is your fixation with him?

No it's a fact. The CDC did no study on the number of DGUs. They simply stated what other studies found, that is not a new study. Stop lying.

 

[Brain357]

a society without sex has less STDs than one with it

lets stick to reality and real scenarios

a society without guns is one where strong young men rule and women and the elderly have no ability to resist. being a black belt with years of knife training, a gun free society would make me a lot more powerful than I am now. an armed society is a polite society , women wouldn't want a society without guns

Gee, strangely enough, Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher both were able to head governments of societies that had few guns on the streets.

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

 

[Brain357]

a society without sex has less STDs than one with it

lets stick to reality and real scenarios

a society without guns is one where strong young men rule and women and the elderly have no ability to resist. being a black belt with years of knife training, a gun free society would make me a lot more powerful than I am now. an armed society is a polite society , women wouldn't want a society without guns

Gee, strangely enough, Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher both were able to head governments of societies that had few guns on the streets.

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

There are 16 studies including the ncvs. 12 say less than 2 million. Put in today's numbers 14 say less than 2 million. One of the two left you can't prove exists and the other wasn't even national. Your 2 million number is a joke.

 

[westwall]

Gee, strangely enough, Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher both were able to head governments of societies that had few guns on the streets.

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

It's not?


Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑnːəʂ ˈbeːrɪŋ ˈbrɛiviːk];[4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July 2011, he killed eight people by setting off a van bomb amid government buildings in Oslo, then shot dead 69 participants of a Workers' Youth League (AUF) summer camp on the island of Utøya.[5][6] In August 2012 he was convicted of mass murder, causing a fatal explosion, and terrorism.[7][8]

Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Brain357]

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

It's not?


Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑnːəʂ ˈbeːrɪŋ ˈbrɛiviːk];[4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July 2011, he killed eight people by setting off a van bomb amid government buildings in Oslo, then shot dead 69 participants of a Workers' Youth League (AUF) summer camp on the island of Utøya.[5][6] In August 2012 he was convicted of mass murder, causing a fatal explosion, and terrorism.[7][8]

Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We have the most guns and that sort of thing happens here all the time. It's happening here and faster?

 

[Dot Com]

Best thread of the day guno

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

It's not?


Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑnːəʂ ˈbeːrɪŋ ˈbrɛiviːk];[4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July 2011, he killed eight people by setting off a van bomb amid government buildings in Oslo, then shot dead 69 participants of a Workers' Youth League (AUF) summer camp on the island of Utøya.[5][6] In August 2012 he was convicted of mass murder, causing a fatal explosion, and terrorism.[7][8]

Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We have the most guns and that sort of thing happens here all the time. It's happening here and faster?

It is not happening more....is has stayed at the same level....and the one thing that could reduce them......stop the media coverage......the mass shooters want the attention and the body count.

 

[2aguy]

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

It's not?


Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑnːəʂ ˈbeːrɪŋ ˈbrɛiviːk];[4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July 2011, he killed eight people by setting off a van bomb amid government buildings in Oslo, then shot dead 69 participants of a Workers' Youth League (AUF) summer camp on the island of Utøya.[5][6] In August 2012 he was convicted of mass murder, causing a fatal explosion, and terrorism.[7][8]

Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We have the most guns and that sort of thing happens here all the time. It's happening here and faster?

Yes...they happen in the buildings and locations that are legally mandated gun free zones.....as did the shooting in Norway....

 

[Brain357]

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

It's not?


Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑnːəʂ ˈbeːrɪŋ ˈbrɛiviːk];[4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July 2011, he killed eight people by setting off a van bomb amid government buildings in Oslo, then shot dead 69 participants of a Workers' Youth League (AUF) summer camp on the island of Utøya.[5][6] In August 2012 he was convicted of mass murder, causing a fatal explosion, and terrorism.[7][8]

Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We have the most guns and that sort of thing happens here all the time. It's happening here and faster?

Yes...they happen in the buildings and locations that are legally mandated gun free zones.....as did the shooting in Norway....

Given more people are accidently shot and killed than killed in mass shootings, people are still safer in gun free zones.

 

[Brain357]

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Sadly, yes he is...as are all the anti gun extremists...they are ignoring the lessons of history because they think they are superior to it......that is why they can't be allowed to have the levers of power, or be allowed to disarm our future generations....

Most if europe is pretty disarmed. Yet it isn't happening. You must hate that.

It's not?


Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑnːəʂ ˈbeːrɪŋ ˈbrɛiviːk];[4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July 2011, he killed eight people by setting off a van bomb amid government buildings in Oslo, then shot dead 69 participants of a Workers' Youth League (AUF) summer camp on the island of Utøya.[5][6] In August 2012 he was convicted of mass murder, causing a fatal explosion, and terrorism.[7][8]

Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We have the most guns and that sort of thing happens here all the time. It's happening here and faster?

It is not happening more....is has stayed at the same level....and the one thing that could reduce them......stop the media coverage......the mass shooters want the attention and the body count.

Guns and murder are big news. I certainly forget most of the turds who do these things.

 

[Dot Com]

I like how guno used "2nd Amendment" as a verb lol

who is this hysterical fairy and why is he anti gun? must be an Obamatard.

your username is under your avie. You're welcome nutter.

 

[airplanemechanic]

[
So you agree a society without guns is safer than a society with guns?

a society without sex has less STDs than one with it

lets stick to reality and real scenarios

a society without guns is one where strong young men rule and women and the elderly have no ability to resist. being a black belt with years of knife training, a gun free society would make me a lot more powerful than I am now. an armed society is a polite society , women wouldn't want a society without guns

Gee, strangely enough, Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher both were able to head governments of societies that had few guns on the streets.

And the Germans murdered 12 million innocent people, and the British have 2 times the violent crime rate as the United States, and they tell their citizens they must quietly submit to violent attack or face prosecution.....

Do you want that?

You realize that germany thing happened before cable TV, smart phones, and the internet right? It couldn't happen now.

It couldn't? Are you really that naïve?

Yes I've heard of smartphones stopping bullets but I think this is a little extreme!

 

[danielpalos]

I make a motion that gun lovers not on active posse duty should be required to settle their differences with fisticuffs or ("Pankration") and then help with better aqueducts and better roads.

 

[turtledude]

I like how guno used "2nd Amendment" as a verb lol

who is this hysterical fairy and why is he anti gun? must be an Obamatard.

your username is under your avie. You're welcome nutter.

anti gun males=castratis