Two kinds of Muslims

[Ravi]

Except the part that says man made governments and laws should be overthrown and replaced with Sharia law.

Where does it say that?

The Koran.

And please, the relevant verses have been linked here at least a dozen times.

Not that I've seen...I've seen propaganda...in other words questionable quotes out of context.

I know you are gullible enough to believe such things.

 

[boedicca]

FWIW, this is Shari'ah governance:

The term caliphate (from the Arabic خلافة or khilāfa) refers to the first system of governance established in Islam. The most common translation for the word which appears in the Quran is vicegerency (or caretaker). It is a constitutional republic, which means that the rulers are bound by a set of laws which they cannot break at a whim, and the people have the right to appoint their leader through their local leaders and should the leaders divert from their obligations as vicegerents, the people have the right to remove them.

It was initially led by Prophet Muhammad's companions as a continuation of the political authority the Prophet established, known in Arabic as Khulufaa'u Rashidin or English 'Rashidun Caliphate (Rightly Guided Caliphate)'. It represented the political and theological unity of the Muslim Ummah, and was the world's first major welfare state. A "caliphate" is also a state which implements such a government.

Sunni Islam dictates that the head of state, the caliph, should be selected by Shura - elected by Muslims or their representatives....

The Rashidun Caliphate is the archetypal Islamic government. That type of society will not be established in the United States unless the American people desire it (and they clearly do not.) Our goal is to establish Shari'ah in the so-called Muslim world, not in a country whose population is at most 1% Islamic. Do yourselves a favor and find a legitimate cause for concern.

That's what the French thought when they first allowed Islamic immigration...

 

[Kalam]

FWIW, this is Shari'ah governance:

The term caliphate (from the Arabic خلافة or khilāfa) refers to the first system of governance established in Islam. The most common translation for the word which appears in the Quran is vicegerency (or caretaker). It is a constitutional republic, which means that the rulers are bound by a set of laws which they cannot break at a whim, and the people have the right to appoint their leader through their local leaders and should the leaders divert from their obligations as vicegerents, the people have the right to remove them.

It was initially led by Prophet Muhammad's companions as a continuation of the political authority the Prophet established, known in Arabic as Khulufaa'u Rashidin or English 'Rashidun Caliphate (Rightly Guided Caliphate)'. It represented the political and theological unity of the Muslim Ummah, and was the world's first major welfare state. A "caliphate" is also a state which implements such a government.

Sunni Islam dictates that the head of state, the caliph, should be selected by Shura - elected by Muslims or their representatives....

The Rashidun Caliphate is the archetypal Islamic government. That type of society will not be established in the United States unless the American people desire it (and they clearly do not.) Our goal is to establish Shari'ah in the so-called Muslim world, not in a country whose population is at most 1% Islamic. Do yourselves a favor and find a legitimate cause for concern.

That's what the French thought when they first allowed Islamic immigration...

And who's their caliph now?

 

[manifold]

Where does it say that?

The Koran.

And please, the relevant verses have been linked here at least a dozen times.

Not that I've seen...I've seen propaganda...in other words questionable quotes out of context.

I know you are gullible enough to believe such things.

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now, back when I decided NOT to believe everything I heard and educate myself.

Unless the translation is wildly wrong, it's pretty clear about man-made governments being the enemy of Islam.

What does your copy say?

 

[Ravi]

The Koran.

And please, the relevant verses have been linked here at least a dozen times.

Not that I've seen...I've seen propaganda...in other words questionable quotes out of context.

I know you are gullible enough to believe such things.

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now, back when I decided NOT to believe everything I heard and educate myself.

Unless the translation is wildly wrong, it's pretty clear about man-made governments being the enemy of Islam.

What does your copy say?

Then you shouldn't have any trouble posting the verse.

 

[manu1959]

If someone can provide a link to an Imam promoting the idea that sharia law should be subordinate to secular law, I'd love to see it.

Do Christian preachers promote the idea that biblical law should be subordinate to secular law?

do they kill people for it....

 

[Ravi]

If someone can provide a link to an Imam promoting the idea that sharia law should be subordinate to secular law, I'd love to see it.

Do Christian preachers promote the idea that biblical law should be subordinate to secular law?

do they kill people for it....

Sometimes. Does that mean all Christians are murderous assholes?

 

[Kalam]

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now

Then why were you asking how to get one the other day? You could have just burned that one.

 

[Si modo]

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now

Then why were you asking how to get one the other day? You could have just burned that one.

Don't all households have one to read and one to burn?

 

[lizzie]

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now

Then why were you asking how to get one the other day? You could have just burned that one.

Don't all households have one to read and one to burn?

 

[manifold]

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now

Then why were you asking how to get one the other day? You could have just burned that one.

I was looking for a cheap one. Mine cost me $20.

 

[Kalam]

I actually have my own copy of the Koran. Picked it up a few years ago now

Then why were you asking how to get one the other day? You could have just burned that one.

I was looking for a cheap one. Mine cost me $20.

Psh. Nut up and burn it.

 

[manifold]

Again, it's pretty clear to anyone being objective and honest that the Koran says man-made governments are the enemy of Islam. Even Kalam isn't debating this point. And likewise, there are many passages from the Bible that, taken literally, are cause for concern. But the fact is, 99.99% of followers of the Bible either ignore these passages or don't take them literally. I'd like to believe the same about the troubling passages from the Koran. I'd like to believe that only the so-called extremists interpret these literally. So far I've seen no evidence to support what I'd like to believe. And that's the "God's" honest truth.

 

[boedicca]

FWIW, this is Shari'ah governance:



The Rashidun Caliphate is the archetypal Islamic government. That type of society will not be established in the United States unless the American people desire it (and they clearly do not.) Our goal is to establish Shari'ah in the so-called Muslim world, not in a country whose population is at most 1% Islamic. Do yourselves a favor and find a legitimate cause for concern.

That's what the French thought when they first allowed Islamic immigration...

And who's their caliph now?

There not at that stage yet, but are being terrorized with riots by an unassimilated group of immigrants that wish to live under a separate legal system. Just wait until they get to the population tipping point - which is the point of your 1% comment.

Let the camel's nose into the tent, and the rest will follow.

 

[Sunni Man]

Again, it's pretty clear to anyone being objective and honest that the Koran says man-made governments are the enemy of Islam. Even Kalam isn't debating this point. And likewise, there are many passages from the Bible that, taken literally, are cause for concern. But the fact is, 99.99% of followers of the Bible either ignore these passages or don't take them literally. I'd like to believe the same about the troubling passages from the Koran. I'd like to believe that only the so-called extremists interpret these literally. So far I've seen no evidence to support what I'd like to believe. And that's the "God's" honest truth.

I think you nailed it Manifold.

Christians basically ignore much of their Bible.

But, Muslims believe what the Quran says.

 

[lizzie]

- And likewise, there are many passages from the Bible that, taken literally, are cause for concern. But the fact is, 99.99% of followers of the Bible either ignore these passages or don't take them literally.

That's pretty much because most Christians view the teachings of Jesus as their primary obligation (in theory), and they view the old Testament law as a sort of history text. Much of the Christian religion is based on faith in Jesus as a savior and his life as an example of a way to live.

 

[lizzie]

Christians basically ignore much of their Bible.

But, Muslims believe what the Quran says.

They don't ignore it. They read it as an historical text. The part of the Bible that separates Christians from Jews is the New Testament. Christians believe the Old Testament, but it is not intrinsic to their practice of the Christian religion, which is that of salvation and grace.

 

[Sunni Man]

Christians basically ignore much of their Bible.

But, Muslims believe what the Quran says.

They don't ignore it. They read it as an historical text. The part of the Bible that separates Christians from Jews is the New Testament. Christians believe the Old Testament, but it is not intrinsic to their practice of the Christian religion, which is that of salvation and grace.

News Flash Lizzie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was no seperation of Christians from Jews.

Cause all of the writers, disciples, and even Jesus in the New Testament were Jews

 

[manifold]

Regardless, we all pretty much agree that the troubling passages from the Bible aren't adhered to and are therefore nothing to be concerned about.

The Koran says that man-made governments are the enemy of Islam.

Do Muslims believe this?

 

[lizzie]

Christians basically ignore much of their Bible.

But, Muslims believe what the Quran says.

They don't ignore it. They read it as an historical text. The part of the Bible that separates Christians from Jews is the New Testament. Christians believe the Old Testament, but it is not intrinsic to their practice of the Christian religion, which is that of salvation and grace.

News Flash Lizzie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was no seperation of Christians from Jews.

Cause all of the writers, disciples, and even Jesus in the New Testament were Jews

That's not the same thing as the Christian religion. Christians and Jews are very much divided on beliefs concerning salvation. If you believe otherwise, you're not very well-informed on your Abrahamic religions.