Turkey submits Mavi Marmara compensation bill

[fanger]

They were outside the blockade location when boarded

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH for crying out loud. How many times do we have to cut'n'paste this explanation.

It was Israel that was the attacking party.

(REFERENCE)

As stated in Posting #20 of this discussion Thread.

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.
​

(COMMENT)

In order for the Blockade to be a true "Blockade" under the San Remo Manual, it must be effective (obvious to the outside observer). It cannot be the case of selective enforcement.

When the Freedom Flotilla of Six Ships (2010) attempted to run the blockade, it essentially demanded enforcement measures to be taken.

The IDF Navy was not the aggressor (attacker or instigator of the assault). It was taken those measures necessary to enforce the blockade under Paragraph 95 of the Sam Remo Manual.

You interpretation of the events are seen through the blurred eyes of the pro-Hostile Arab-Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration,...​

Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.​

Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?

Then there are things not allowed in like window glass, books, chocolate, toys, pasta, and on, and, on, and on.

Nothing is allowed in to support domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

Exports are not allowed.

Students cannot travel to study.

There is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal.

Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

Your original premise was a farce. It's mere supposition and conjecture.

You have since revised your original premise when it was shown to be false.

But beside your false premise, you're still defending the actions of the flotilla'ists. They were seeking a confrontation and they initiated the steps to make it happen. How lucky for you.

My original premise is true.

Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla.​

It was not about weapons or inspections. It never was. All of the materials on those ships was inspected by the port authorities of the ports of departure. The flotilla offered a peaceful inspection of the ships but Israel refused and attacked.

And again all you have is islamonazi LIES and talking points that dont tell the truth.



It was not about weapons as you claim, it was about breaking the blockade that was placed on legally. The flotilla set out with that as their intent and were defeated by the IDF, it took some deaths of armed terrorists to quell the uprising but it worked and there have been no more attempts after the ICC declared the blockade legal.

 

[Phoenall]

They were outside the blockade location when boarded

Irrelevant as maritime law says they can be stopped in international waters if they are suspected of trying to breach the blockade. Notice was given of the blockade and so the captains of the vessels should now lose their license to take charge of a vessel. The owners should be fined for endangering lives at sea and the vessels confiscated

 

[fanger]

$20,000,000.00 is what israel will have to pay

 

[Shusha]

Israel should charge Hamas for Iron Dome.

 

[RoccoR]

fanger, et al

This makes no difference and you know it. The Ships Masters, the Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation (IHH), both as the owner/operator, and the principle flotilla sponsor, made public announcements with news media releases, and filed departure notices, in advance by the individual ship, with the Port Captain.

As there are often distinctions between "basic intent" (the Flotilla with engage in criminal activity) and "specific intent" (a conspiratorial announcement to run the blocked); then taking steps in the furtherance of that intention.

They were outside the blockade location when boarded

(COMMENT)

The Flotilla, states a desire to commit a specific act --- in the expectation that it will result in a specific outcome, goes to prove premeditation (planning the act). Thus, in a sense, the criminal conspiracy to commit the act (Blockade Running) expands the list of perpetrator to many more than just those IHH Activists and conspirators apprehended at the intercept point. It may include even extend to encompass the Government - Union of the Comoros and event sponsors as having aided and abetted the criminal participants to the crime.

San Remo Manual --- Section II Methods of Warfare - Blockade, Paragraph 96:
• The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.
​

While "Specific intent" is invoked less frequently to justify preemptive and preventive apprehensions and detentions, it is often used in associated with terrorism, treason or sabotage; or in cases where the intent is more than obvious.

In the case of the blockade, the object of the exercise is to stop the violator from penetrating the perimeter of the restricted area. When the intention to run the blockade (a criminal act) is so obvious and so well documented, the interception point may make use of the Paragraph 96. The intercept does not have to wait for the actual penetration of the block --- any more than the police have to wait for a criminal to commit murder before they make an arrest.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

$20,000,000.00 is what israel will have to pay

A small portion compared to the income from the natural gas

 

[fanger]

Israel should charge Hamas for Iron Dome.

Double billing, as the US Public has already paid for it
Police may reopen criminal probe into Netanyahu travel billing

 

[RoccoR]

rylah et al

I'm not sure that this is "what it appears to be."

World news Israel to pay $20mn compensation for 2010 raid: Turkey PM Binali Yildirim
By: AFP | Ankara | Published: June 27, 2016
Israel has agreed to comply with two key Turkish conditions for a restoration in ties - an apology for the commando raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, which killed 10 Turkish activists, and compensation

Asked about a reported Turkish commitment to help prevent Hamas attacks against Israel, Yildirim said: “This is not a ceasefire deal. We reached an agreement with Israel to normalise relations.”
​

$20,000,000.00 is what israel will have to pay

A small portion compared to the income from the natural gas

(COMMENT)

“To this end, our first ship loaded with over 10,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid will leave for Israel’s Ashdod port on Friday,” Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said.

Actually, this shipping route was always open to Turkish traders. The Freedom Flotilla wanted a confrontation, but it could have avoid a confrontation any time.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH for crying out loud. How many times do we have to cut'n'paste this explanation.

It was Israel that was the attacking party.

(REFERENCE)

As stated in Posting #20 of this discussion Thread.

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.
​

(COMMENT)

In order for the Blockade to be a true "Blockade" under the San Remo Manual, it must be effective (obvious to the outside observer). It cannot be the case of selective enforcement.

When the Freedom Flotilla of Six Ships (2010) attempted to run the blockade, it essentially demanded enforcement measures to be taken.

The IDF Navy was not the aggressor (attacker or instigator of the assault). It was taken those measures necessary to enforce the blockade under Paragraph 95 of the Sam Remo Manual.

You interpretation of the events are seen through the blurred eyes of the pro-Hostile Arab-Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration,...​

Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.​

Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?

Then there are things not allowed in like window glass, books, chocolate, toys, pasta, and on, and, on, and on.

Nothing is allowed in to support domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

Exports are not allowed.

Students cannot travel to study.

There is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal.

Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

There is a list of goods that are banned during a blockade and Israel has only banned goods from that list from entering gaza. The list was posted last year and detailed what is internationally accepted as dual use goods, and hence banned. Israel allows through goods that are on the list as dual use, but has banned no goods that are not on the list. The fact that weapons were found, and seen to be deployed by watching the passenger videos shows that Israel was legally within the remit of Maritime law regarding blockades at sea to take the action they did. If I was in charge I would have counter claimed $100 trillion for the cost of enforcing the blockade and the attempted murder of the IDF officer by islamonazi terrorists. I would refuse point blank to pay a penny to any of the families of the terrorists killed legally by the IDF boarding party as they were hoping to be injured/killed so they would be hero's/martyrs.

The fact the flotilla set out with the stated intention of breaching the blockade is grounds enough for military involvement to halt the vessels. There is one of your "facts" destroyed


Here is another from the passengers video




Did you see the illegal banned slingshots that were found, they are banned in most civilised nations because they are a deadly weapon that can kill..


HOW IS IT YOU LEAVE YOURSELF OPEN TO BEING SHOWN A PROPAGANDIST EVERY TIME YOU POST ?

There is a list of goods that are banned during a blockade and Israel has only banned goods from that list from entering gaza.​

Maybe Israel is afraid of chocolate rockets, or books and dolls being thrown at them when they invade Gaza.

You are a hoot.

 

[fanger]

After
agreeing to halt all proceedings in domestic and international courts against Israeli forces, Turkey is expected to be allowed to ship aid for Gaza through the Israeli port of Ashdod and to build a power station, hospital and desalination plan in the blockaded Strip.

The Turkish prime minister, Binali Yildirim, announcing the deal in Ankara, said a first shipment of 10,000 tonnes of aid would be sent next Friday but it was too early to talk about gas deals with Israel. The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, said in a simultaneous announcement in Rome that the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza would continue.

A senior Turkish official outlined the details of the deal on Sunday:

• Israel agreed to provide compensation to the families of Mavi Marmara victims and to allow Turkey to interfere in the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
• Turkey will deliver humanitarian aid and other non-military products to Gaza and make infrastructure investments in the area. Along with new residential buildings, we will complete the construction of a 200-bed hospital in Gaza.
• Concrete steps will be taken to address the energy and water crisis in Gaza. The amount of electricity and drinking water to Gaza residents will increase and new power plants will be constructed.
• The Turkey-Israel agreement will make it possible for Turkey to launch major projects in the West Bank including the Jenin industrial zone.

The official said there were no references to Hamas in the agreement and Turkey would “continue supporting the Palestinian state and the people of Palestine”.
The agreement represented a “diplomatic victory” for Turkey

Israel and Turkey end six-year standoff

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been well disseminated world-wide. The standard "Notice To Mariners"

​

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration,...​

Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.​

Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?

Then there are things not allowed in like window glass, books, chocolate, toys, pasta, and on, and, on, and on.

Nothing is allowed in to support domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

Exports are not allowed.

Students cannot travel to study.

There is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal.

Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

(REFERENCES)

TIMES OF LONDON
A foreign journalist notices the Egyptian blockade of Gaza
BY ADAM LEVICK ON JUNE 23, 2015 •

CAMERA, in two blog posts earlier in the year, cited examples of how media outlets find inventive ways to avoid mentioning the fact that the “total Egyptian blockade has isolated the Gaza Strip far more than the Israeli blockade, under which goods andpeople do cross“.

Though CAMERA in those particular cases was citing reports by Agence France Presse (AFP) and The New York Times, British media reports on the deprivation in Gaza also routinely ignore the Egyptian blockade. (These reports also fail to inform readers that Israel’s blockade is only partial, and allows into Gaza, on a daily basis, large quantities of food, consumer goods and construction material, despite the fact that much of this “humanitarian aid” is diverted by Hamas for military purposes.)

All of this renders the following June 22nd Times of London report (paywall) by Gregg Carlstrom quite extraordinary.
​

Carlstrom then makes a broader point:

While the international focus has been on the intermittent closures of the Erez crossing between Gaza and Israel, and the partial Israeli blockade of the territory, the restrictions imposed by Gaza’s other land neighbour, Egypt, are far more severe. Compared with Israel, which opens Erez for a limited number of people and goods for five days each week, the Rafah crossing to Egypt is almost completely sealed. Until this month it has been open for only five days this year, allowing only 2,517 Palestinians to travel out of Gaza. That compares with Erez, which 4,100 people used in one week of this month

The recent closure of Rafah is the worst in nearly a decade. President Sisi, Cairo’s pro-western military ruler, accuses Hamas of sponsoring jihadists across the border.
​

View attachment 86399 View attachment 86404
​

(COMMENT)

Both Israel and Egypt understand and enforce very similar restrictions on the material that crosses the border into Gaza.

YOUR QUESTION •∆• "Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?"

ANSWER: Commencement 03UTC1700JAN09 of 7100 03 January 09 Duration: Indefinitely
​

YOUR QUESTION •∆• "Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?"

ANSWER: The "effective" implementation is a question of fact; not a question of success or failure of the tactical application.
​

The rhetoric that "there is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal" is wrong from several perspectives; including but not limited to:

The naval blockade and the companion ground containment are instruments to suppress the unrestrained exploitation of unrestricted travel and commerce (import/export). It is not a retaliation against a population for their past history of criminal, jihadist, insurgent and terrorist activity (which is all quite extensive). It is a countermeasure to prevent the material support to such activities --- the means to direct further hostilities directed towards Israel (and its citizens) by those Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that have adopted the means of armed struggle as the only solution to the Question of Palestine.

YOUR PREMISE: •∆• Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

No, Everybody does not know that. What contraband is onboard (if any) cannot be known until the ships are boarded and searched. Further, the enforcement of the blockade is about a number of issues, the most important of which is the means of sealing off Gaza to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving in an unrestricted manner.

While this theory may have been heard by many people, the "military necessity" was to "effectively enforce" the blockade (Para 95), not to create a precedent for passage or succumb to the extortion and intimidation presented by the "criminals, jihadists, insurgents and terrorists" that have decided to use force and the threat of force to achieve through coercion, that which they purposely choose not to pursue by peaceful means.
​

Most Respectfully,
R​

The rhetoric that "there is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal" is wrong from several perspectives; including but not limited to:

The naval blockade and the companion ground containment are instruments to suppress the unrestrained exploitation of unrestricted travel and commerce (import/export). It is not a retaliation against a population for their past history of criminal, jihadist, insurgent and terrorist activity (which is all quite extensive). It is a countermeasure to prevent the material support to such activities --- the means to direct further hostilities directed towards Israel (and its citizens) by those Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that have adopted the means of armed struggle as the only solution to the Question of Palestine.​

Did you make this shit up yourself or did Israel send it to you?

 

[Phoenall]

$20,000,000.00 is what israel will have to pay

Lets wait and see if they do, and who will enforce it when they dont ?

 

[Phoenall]

Israel should charge Hamas for Iron Dome.

Double billing, as the US Public has already paid for it
Police may reopen criminal probe into Netanyahu travel billing

They cant expect to get defense for nothing, someone has to pay the costs involved. Or do you use islamic business methods that cost you 10 times as much in the end.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH for crying out loud. How many times do we have to cut'n'paste this explanation.

It was Israel that was the attacking party.

(REFERENCE)

As stated in Posting #20 of this discussion Thread.

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.
​

(COMMENT)

In order for the Blockade to be a true "Blockade" under the San Remo Manual, it must be effective (obvious to the outside observer). It cannot be the case of selective enforcement.

When the Freedom Flotilla of Six Ships (2010) attempted to run the blockade, it essentially demanded enforcement measures to be taken.

The IDF Navy was not the aggressor (attacker or instigator of the assault). It was taken those measures necessary to enforce the blockade under Paragraph 95 of the Sam Remo Manual.

You interpretation of the events are seen through the blurred eyes of the pro-Hostile Arab-Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration,...​

Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.​

Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?

Then there are things not allowed in like window glass, books, chocolate, toys, pasta, and on, and, on, and on.

Nothing is allowed in to support domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

Exports are not allowed.

Students cannot travel to study.

There is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal.

Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

There is a list of goods that are banned during a blockade and Israel has only banned goods from that list from entering gaza. The list was posted last year and detailed what is internationally accepted as dual use goods, and hence banned. Israel allows through goods that are on the list as dual use, but has banned no goods that are not on the list. The fact that weapons were found, and seen to be deployed by watching the passenger videos shows that Israel was legally within the remit of Maritime law regarding blockades at sea to take the action they did. If I was in charge I would have counter claimed $100 trillion for the cost of enforcing the blockade and the attempted murder of the IDF officer by islamonazi terrorists. I would refuse point blank to pay a penny to any of the families of the terrorists killed legally by the IDF boarding party as they were hoping to be injured/killed so they would be hero's/martyrs.

The fact the flotilla set out with the stated intention of breaching the blockade is grounds enough for military involvement to halt the vessels. There is one of your "facts" destroyed


Here is another from the passengers video




Did you see the illegal banned slingshots that were found, they are banned in most civilised nations because they are a deadly weapon that can kill..


HOW IS IT YOU LEAVE YOURSELF OPEN TO BEING SHOWN A PROPAGANDIST EVERY TIME YOU POST ?

There is a list of goods that are banned during a blockade and Israel has only banned goods from that list from entering gaza.​

Maybe Israel is afraid of chocolate rockets, or books and dolls being thrown at them when they invade Gaza.

You are a hoot.

And as I have shown dual use comes into play and anything that can be used to produce explosives is on the list. Chocolate is one such item, as are paper and plastics. You only see weedkiller as a problem, not the substances that are accelerants and flammable.

 

[Phoenall]

After
agreeing to halt all proceedings in domestic and international courts against Israeli forces, Turkey is expected to be allowed to ship aid for Gaza through the Israeli port of Ashdod and to build a power station, hospital and desalination plan in the blockaded Strip.

The Turkish prime minister, Binali Yildirim, announcing the deal in Ankara, said a first shipment of 10,000 tonnes of aid would be sent next Friday but it was too early to talk about gas deals with Israel. The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, said in a simultaneous announcement in Rome that the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza would continue.

A senior Turkish official outlined the details of the deal on Sunday:

• Israel agreed to provide compensation to the families of Mavi Marmara victims and to allow Turkey to interfere in the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
• Turkey will deliver humanitarian aid and other non-military products to Gaza and make infrastructure investments in the area. Along with new residential buildings, we will complete the construction of a 200-bed hospital in Gaza.
• Concrete steps will be taken to address the energy and water crisis in Gaza. The amount of electricity and drinking water to Gaza residents will increase and new power plants will be constructed.
• The Turkey-Israel agreement will make it possible for Turkey to launch major projects in the West Bank including the Jenin industrial zone.

The official said there were no references to Hamas in the agreement and Turkey would “continue supporting the Palestinian state and the people of Palestine”.
The agreement represented a “diplomatic victory” for Turkey

Israel and Turkey end six-year standoff

And I wonder what they willl do when hamas steals the shipments to use in terrorist attacks against Israel. Or fires on the lorries stopping them from getting through and so harming the people of gaza. As far as islamonazi propagandists are concerned 1 dead child in gaza is worth more than a power station

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been well disseminated world-wide. The standard "Notice To Mariners"

​

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration,...​

Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.​

Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?

Then there are things not allowed in like window glass, books, chocolate, toys, pasta, and on, and, on, and on.

Nothing is allowed in to support domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

Exports are not allowed.

Students cannot travel to study.

There is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal.

Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

(REFERENCES)

TIMES OF LONDON
A foreign journalist notices the Egyptian blockade of Gaza
BY ADAM LEVICK ON JUNE 23, 2015 •

CAMERA, in two blog posts earlier in the year, cited examples of how media outlets find inventive ways to avoid mentioning the fact that the “total Egyptian blockade has isolated the Gaza Strip far more than the Israeli blockade, under which goods andpeople do cross“.

Though CAMERA in those particular cases was citing reports by Agence France Presse (AFP) and The New York Times, British media reports on the deprivation in Gaza also routinely ignore the Egyptian blockade. (These reports also fail to inform readers that Israel’s blockade is only partial, and allows into Gaza, on a daily basis, large quantities of food, consumer goods and construction material, despite the fact that much of this “humanitarian aid” is diverted by Hamas for military purposes.)

All of this renders the following June 22nd Times of London report (paywall) by Gregg Carlstrom quite extraordinary.
​

Carlstrom then makes a broader point:

While the international focus has been on the intermittent closures of the Erez crossing between Gaza and Israel, and the partial Israeli blockade of the territory, the restrictions imposed by Gaza’s other land neighbour, Egypt, are far more severe. Compared with Israel, which opens Erez for a limited number of people and goods for five days each week, the Rafah crossing to Egypt is almost completely sealed. Until this month it has been open for only five days this year, allowing only 2,517 Palestinians to travel out of Gaza. That compares with Erez, which 4,100 people used in one week of this month

The recent closure of Rafah is the worst in nearly a decade. President Sisi, Cairo’s pro-western military ruler, accuses Hamas of sponsoring jihadists across the border.
​

View attachment 86399 View attachment 86404
​

(COMMENT)

Both Israel and Egypt understand and enforce very similar restrictions on the material that crosses the border into Gaza.

YOUR QUESTION •∆• "Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?"

ANSWER: Commencement 03UTC1700JAN09 of 7100 03 January 09 Duration: Indefinitely
​

YOUR QUESTION •∆• "Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?"

ANSWER: The "effective" implementation is a question of fact; not a question of success or failure of the tactical application.
​

The rhetoric that "there is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal" is wrong from several perspectives; including but not limited to:

The naval blockade and the companion ground containment are instruments to suppress the unrestrained exploitation of unrestricted travel and commerce (import/export). It is not a retaliation against a population for their past history of criminal, jihadist, insurgent and terrorist activity (which is all quite extensive). It is a countermeasure to prevent the material support to such activities --- the means to direct further hostilities directed towards Israel (and its citizens) by those Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that have adopted the means of armed struggle as the only solution to the Question of Palestine.

YOUR PREMISE: •∆• Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

No, Everybody does not know that. What contraband is onboard (if any) cannot be known until the ships are boarded and searched. Further, the enforcement of the blockade is about a number of issues, the most important of which is the means of sealing off Gaza to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving in an unrestricted manner.

While this theory may have been heard by many people, the "military necessity" was to "effectively enforce" the blockade (Para 95), not to create a precedent for passage or succumb to the extortion and intimidation presented by the "criminals, jihadists, insurgents and terrorists" that have decided to use force and the threat of force to achieve through coercion, that which they purposely choose not to pursue by peaceful means.
​

Most Respectfully,
R​

The rhetoric that "there is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal" is wrong from several perspectives; including but not limited to:

The naval blockade and the companion ground containment are instruments to suppress the unrestrained exploitation of unrestricted travel and commerce (import/export). It is not a retaliation against a population for their past history of criminal, jihadist, insurgent and terrorist activity (which is all quite extensive). It is a countermeasure to prevent the material support to such activities --- the means to direct further hostilities directed towards Israel (and its citizens) by those Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that have adopted the means of armed struggle as the only solution to the Question of Palestine.​

Did you make this shit up yourself or did Israel send it to you?

It is actually common thought on the problem that most people are recognizing after the 2014 threats to foriegn journo's if they printed the truth. Now the world knows the truth and hamas is losing the propaganda battle.

 

[rylah]

rylah et al

I'm not sure that this is "what it appears to be."

World news Israel to pay $20mn compensation for 2010 raid: Turkey PM Binali Yildirim
By: AFP | Ankara | Published: June 27, 2016
Israel has agreed to comply with two key Turkish conditions for a restoration in ties - an apology for the commando raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, which killed 10 Turkish activists, and compensation

Asked about a reported Turkish commitment to help prevent Hamas attacks against Israel, Yildirim said: “This is not a ceasefire deal. We reached an agreement with Israel to normalise relations.”
​

$20,000,000.00 is what israel will have to pay

A small portion compared to the income from the natural gas

(COMMENT)

“To this end, our first ship loaded with over 10,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid will leave for Israel’s Ashdod port on Friday,” Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said.

Actually, this shipping route was always open to Turkish traders. The Freedom Flotilla wanted a confrontation, but it could have avoid a confrontation any time.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.

Most Respectfully,
R

This is obvious to me, it seems that Erdogan is motivated by pride and image..as most in the ME. Israelis seem to be more practical and business oriented. Isn't it preferable to look further a the "dry remnant"?
Who's achievement is more long-term oriented and substantial?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been well disseminated world-wide. The standard "Notice To Mariners"

​

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration,...​

Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.​

Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?

Then there are things not allowed in like window glass, books, chocolate, toys, pasta, and on, and, on, and on.

Nothing is allowed in to support domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

Exports are not allowed.

Students cannot travel to study.

There is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal.

Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

(REFERENCES)

TIMES OF LONDON
A foreign journalist notices the Egyptian blockade of Gaza
BY ADAM LEVICK ON JUNE 23, 2015 •

CAMERA, in two blog posts earlier in the year, cited examples of how media outlets find inventive ways to avoid mentioning the fact that the “total Egyptian blockade has isolated the Gaza Strip far more than the Israeli blockade, under which goods andpeople do cross“.

Though CAMERA in those particular cases was citing reports by Agence France Presse (AFP) and The New York Times, British media reports on the deprivation in Gaza also routinely ignore the Egyptian blockade. (These reports also fail to inform readers that Israel’s blockade is only partial, and allows into Gaza, on a daily basis, large quantities of food, consumer goods and construction material, despite the fact that much of this “humanitarian aid” is diverted by Hamas for military purposes.)

All of this renders the following June 22nd Times of London report (paywall) by Gregg Carlstrom quite extraordinary.
​

Carlstrom then makes a broader point:

While the international focus has been on the intermittent closures of the Erez crossing between Gaza and Israel, and the partial Israeli blockade of the territory, the restrictions imposed by Gaza’s other land neighbour, Egypt, are far more severe. Compared with Israel, which opens Erez for a limited number of people and goods for five days each week, the Rafah crossing to Egypt is almost completely sealed. Until this month it has been open for only five days this year, allowing only 2,517 Palestinians to travel out of Gaza. That compares with Erez, which 4,100 people used in one week of this month

The recent closure of Rafah is the worst in nearly a decade. President Sisi, Cairo’s pro-western military ruler, accuses Hamas of sponsoring jihadists across the border.
​

View attachment 86399 View attachment 86404
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(COMMENT)

Both Israel and Egypt understand and enforce very similar restrictions on the material that crosses the border into Gaza.

YOUR QUESTION •∆• "Could you provide a copy of that declaration specifying the date of commencement and the duration?"

ANSWER: Commencement 03UTC1700JAN09 of 7100 03 January 09 Duration: Indefinitely
​

YOUR QUESTION •∆• "Do you mean like there is material for a network of tunnels. They have more than enough rockets. There are plenty of guns and amo. That kind of effective?"

ANSWER: The "effective" implementation is a question of fact; not a question of success or failure of the tactical application.
​

The rhetoric that "there is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal" is wrong from several perspectives; including but not limited to:

The naval blockade and the companion ground containment are instruments to suppress the unrestrained exploitation of unrestricted travel and commerce (import/export). It is not a retaliation against a population for their past history of criminal, jihadist, insurgent and terrorist activity (which is all quite extensive). It is a countermeasure to prevent the material support to such activities --- the means to direct further hostilities directed towards Israel (and its citizens) by those Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that have adopted the means of armed struggle as the only solution to the Question of Palestine.

YOUR PREMISE: •∆• Then back to my original premise. Everybody, including Israel, knew that there were no weapons to Gaza on the flotilla. There was no military necessity to attack those ships.

No, Everybody does not know that. What contraband is onboard (if any) cannot be known until the ships are boarded and searched. Further, the enforcement of the blockade is about a number of issues, the most important of which is the means of sealing off Gaza to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving in an unrestricted manner.

While this theory may have been heard by many people, the "military necessity" was to "effectively enforce" the blockade (Para 95), not to create a precedent for passage or succumb to the extortion and intimidation presented by the "criminals, jihadists, insurgents and terrorists" that have decided to use force and the threat of force to achieve through coercion, that which they purposely choose not to pursue by peaceful means.
​

Most Respectfully,
R​

The rhetoric that "there is no military necessity for any of this. It is just the collective punishment that makes the blockade illegal" is wrong from several perspectives; including but not limited to:

The naval blockade and the companion ground containment are instruments to suppress the unrestrained exploitation of unrestricted travel and commerce (import/export). It is not a retaliation against a population for their past history of criminal, jihadist, insurgent and terrorist activity (which is all quite extensive). It is a countermeasure to prevent the material support to such activities --- the means to direct further hostilities directed towards Israel (and its citizens) by those Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that have adopted the means of armed struggle as the only solution to the Question of Palestine.​

Did you make this shit up yourself or did Israel send it to you?

That was a rather embarrassing admission on your part that you had absolutely nothing in the way of a refutation. So, you threw yourself on the floor in a tantrum. Time out for you, Laddy.

 

[Hollie]

rylah et al

I'm not sure that this is "what it appears to be."

World news Israel to pay $20mn compensation for 2010 raid: Turkey PM Binali Yildirim
By: AFP | Ankara | Published: June 27, 2016
Israel has agreed to comply with two key Turkish conditions for a restoration in ties - an apology for the commando raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, which killed 10 Turkish activists, and compensation

Asked about a reported Turkish commitment to help prevent Hamas attacks against Israel, Yildirim said: “This is not a ceasefire deal. We reached an agreement with Israel to normalise relations.”
​

$20,000,000.00 is what israel will have to pay

A small portion compared to the income from the natural gas

(COMMENT)

“To this end, our first ship loaded with over 10,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid will leave for Israel’s Ashdod port on Friday,” Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said.

Actually, this shipping route was always open to Turkish traders. The Freedom Flotilla wanted a confrontation, but it could have avoid a confrontation any time.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.

Most Respectfully,
R

This is obvious to me, it seems that Erdogan is motivated by pride and image..as most in the ME. Israelis seem to be more practical and business oriented. Isn't it preferable to look further a the "dry remnant"?
Who's achievement is more long-term oriented and substantial?

I believe you're right. This is also, I suspect, a strategy to press this issue at a time when he's looking to consolidate his status of Führer, Field Marshal General, King of Turkey. Erdogan is a classic Islamist dictator who's looking to ingratiate himself with the more excitable of the fundie element.