Tsushima, 1905

[padisha emperor]

The Battle of Tsushima

May 27-28, 1905

This culminating battle of the Russo-Japanese War was fought in the Korean Straits between the Russian Baltic Fleet under Admiral Zinovi Rozhdestvensky, who was attempting to link up with the Vladivostok Squadron and thus shore up Russia's sagging strategic position, and a Japanese fleet under Admiral Togo Heihachiro, who sought to annihilate Russian naval power in East Asia. Approaching the battle, the Japanese held a number of distinct advantages over their Russian enemy: operation from nearby bases, a compact force of modern battleships of uniform speed and firepower, thorough training and high morale of officers and men, and careful planning and intense training for critical strategic and tactical objectives.

Intercepting the cumbersome Russian force as it steamed northeastward on May 27, Togo undertook a daring maneuver that headed off Rozhdestvensky and brought his lead ships under devastating Japanese fire. In the next twelve hours of fighting between the battle lines, Japanese gunfire and torpedoes shattered the Russian fleet. By noon the next day, Rozhdestvensky surrendered; most of his ships had been sunk or captured, including all eight battleships. Togo lost only three torpedo boats.

Tsushima was one of the most annihilating victories in the history of naval warfare, and, as such, it became the model for Japanese naval doctrine. Following the battle, Russia dropped from third to sixth place among the world's sea powers, while Japan leapt to third place. Tsushima demonstrated the great increase in weapon range and appeared to confirm the principle of the all-big-gun battleship.

List of the vessels of the Tsushima battle

Japanese Fleet

The japanese battleship Mikasa, flagship of the amiral Togo, leader of the japanese naval forces at Tsushima.

The russian battleship Borodino.

The russian battleship Souvorov, flagship of the Amiral Rojdestvenski, destroyed during the battle.

Japanese Amiral Togo

 

[Annie]

Now this PE, I find interesting. The Meiji Revolution is one of the most fascinating in historical terms I think. It was like a whole country devoted to a "Manhattan Project" but on all-encompassing terms.

 

[dilloduck]

Now this PE, I find interesting. The Meiji Revolution is one of the most fascinating in historical terms I think. It was like a whole country devoted to a "Manhattan Project" but on all-encompassing terms.

Too bad they weren't a little nice to the Chinese in the process.

 

[padisha emperor]

Now this PE, I find interesting. The Meiji Revolution is one of the most fascinating in historical terms I think. It was like a whole country devoted to a "Manhattan Project" but on all-encompassing terms.

I agree...
I find it fantastic, and unbelievable.
the Japan during the Meiji time, it would be like France or England have jump in 30 years from the XIth century to the XXth...crazy, simply crazy.

 

[Annie]

I agree...
I find it fantastic, and unbelievable.
the Japan during the Meiji time, it would be like France or England have jump in 30 years from the XIth century to the XXth...crazy, simply crazy.

Complete committment to becoming a modern power, simply to stop the imperialism that threatened its existence. Remarkable.

 

[Annie]

The 5 Charter Oath 1868:



1. Deliberative assemblies shall be widely established and all matters decided by public discussion.

This in fact never really happened. A parliament with no real power was established, and the oligarchy remained in real political control. They did allow more, however, in the way of public assemblies and political discourse.

2. All classes, high and low, shall unite in vigorously carrying out the administration of the affairs of state.

This declaration was important, especially in conjunction with article three. Essentially, it meant that all people could be employed by the government, and that everyone should help the government as much as possible, regardless of position.

3. The common people, no less than the civil and military officials, shall each be allowed to pursue his own calling so that there may be no discontent.

This very important statement abolished the long standing feudal order of Japan, under which all subjects occupied from birth a specific rank within the social and economic structure.

4. Evil customs of the past shall be broken off and everything based upon the just laws of Nature.

This is a blanket declaration of reform.

5. Knowledge shall be sought throughout the world so as to strengthen the foundation of Imperial Rule.

This might seem familiar to anyone who has read about the Taika Reforms: the difference here is that instead of borrowing from China as in the past, Japan would borrow from Western powers, mostly the United States.

 

[Annie]

To my way of thinking, while Japan certainly did borrow heavily from the West in general, I think it's often overlooked by how much they learned at the relatively current Machiavellian behavior of von Bismarck in Germany, regarding unification and the use of war and threat of war.

Japan basically borrowed the infrastructure and behavior of the modern era from Germany, Britain, France and the US; but their behavior in the Pacific and idea of sphere of influence, brilliantly Bismarckian, (they over reached eventually, but Bismarck really never got the chance).

Interesting, no Padisha, that it was France by declaring war on the Confederation in the Franco-Prussian War, that not only led to the Republic, but also laid the groundwork for WWI? Perhaps too, the Paris Commune established during the siege of Paris, inspired the Lenin led revolution towards communism?

 

[padisha emperor]

Japan basically borrowed the infrastructure and behavior of the modern era from Germany, Britain, France and the US; but their behavior in the Pacific and idea of sphere of influence, brilliantly Bismarckian, (they over reached eventually, but Bismarck really never got the chance).

It shows the japanese hability to have a very fast developpment, a quick adaptation.
They assimilated so much things...

They translated Rousseau, and studied the US constitution.
They ask french expert for their laws, particularly the administrative laws.
They ask british experts too.
And for their army, the Japanese took their inspiratio in the french and prussian models, so they had a very operationnal army.
When the experts came back from Europe, they said that the army should have the efficacity of the prussian army, and should be a national army, like the french one.

Interesting, no Padisha, that it was France by declaring war on the Confederation in the Franco-Prussian War, that not only led to the Republic, but also laid the groundwork for WWI? Perhaps too, the Paris Commune established during the siege of Paris, inspired the Lenin led revolution towards communism?

It's not wrong, but not the only grounds...Don't you think that before the Paris Commune, there is Marx. There is the russian problems..... ?

And for WWI, don't you believe that the growth of the Prussian might, also at sea, and the colonial tensions, were at the origin of this war ?

But what's the link with japan under Meiji and Tsushima ?

 

[Annie]

It shows the japanese hability to have a very fast developpment, a quick adaptation.
They assimilated so much things...

They translated Rousseau, and studied the US constitution.
They ask french expert for their laws, particularly the administrative laws.
They ask british experts too.
And for their army, the Japanese took their inspiratio in the french and prussian models, so they had a very operationnal army.
When the experts came back from Europe, they said that the army should have the efficacity of the prussian army, and should be a national army, like the french one.








It's not wrong, but not the only grounds...Don't you think that before the Paris Commune, there is Marx. There is the russian problems..... ?

Agreed, Marx proceeded, about 1840's I believe. Yet the commune adopted much of what he had in the Manifesto, laying a plan for Lenin to consider during his off years.

And for WWI, don't you believe that the growth of the Prussian might, also at sea, and the colonial tensions, were at the origin of this war ?

Certainly Germany/Prussia played a prominent role, but nothing like Versailles treaty implied. One must not forget, that is how nationalism arose by a feigned 'glorious past' of most of Europe in the empire building years. As you said, Germany/Prussia accelerated the process. The French were miffed at Alsace, no?

But what's the link with japan under Meiji and Tsushima ?

You're right, I get caught up in the years leading up to the war and see so many connections-Bismarck and the Meiji for instance.

 

[padisha emperor]

Certainly Germany/Prussia played a prominent role, but nothing like Versailles treaty implied. One must not forget, that is how nationalism arose by a feigned 'glorious past' of most of Europe in the empire building years. As you said, Germany/Prussia accelerated the process. The French were miffed at Alsace, no?

what does mean "miffed" ? i search it, but I didn't found.


For me, the franco-german war of 18770-71 did that Prussia became a great power. And then, the aim of Bismarck and William the first, the Kaiser, was possible. So, Germany, who succed to Prussia after the proclamation of the IInd Reich in Versailles, did all to provoke he war : tensions in Morocco, to separate the French and the English, runs with UK to have the best fleet, agressive behavior......
And if you add the feeling of revenge in France, to take back Alsace and Moselle, you have an explosive situation : the smallest fire would make all burning. It was the assassination of the Archiduke of Austria in Sarajevo.

 

[Annie]

what does mean "miffed" ? i search it, but I didn't found.


For me, the franco-german war of 18770-71 did that Prussia became a great power. And then, the aim of Bismarck and William the first, the Kaiser, was possible. So, Germany, who succed to Prussia after the proclamation of the IInd Reich in Versailles, did all to provoke he war : tensions in Morocco, to separate the French and the English, runs with UK to have the best fleet, agressive behavior......
And if you add the feeling of revenge in France, to take back Alsace and Moselle, you have an explosive situation : the smallest fire would make all burning. It was the assassination of the Archiduke of Austria in Sarajevo.

First:

miff ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mf)
n.
A petulant, bad-tempered mood; a huff.
A petty quarrel or argument; a tiff.

tr.v. miffed, miff·ing, miffs
To cause to become offended or annoyed.

[Possibly expressive of disgust.]

About WWI. Agreed on the explosiveness between Germany/France. There also was the naval race between Germany/England. Then there was Japan in the wings, wanting the land they thought they should have had from the war with Russia and itching to gain more dominance in the Pacific.

It wasn't the assassination as much as the alliance system-causing the domino effect and hubris-that led to such virulent nationalism in the first place.

 

[padisha emperor]

here we are totally on the same place, we have the same mind. see, it's possible !!

Thanks for the "miffed" meaning.

 

[Annie]

here we are totally on the same place, we have the same mind. see, it's possible !!

Thanks for the "miffed" meaning.

LOL Once every 6 months!

 

[Unkotare]

Togo's turn not only spelled defeat for the Russian fleet but the Czarist government itself.