How is it justifiable to, on the one hand, slam the president for not reducing the deficit, but then on the other hand, refuse to up the taxes on the wealthy? How is that even rational? Please explain to me why the Repubs want to have their cake, eat it too, and throw a fit until its done? Anyone out there want to enlighten me?
Trying to understand the Repub view on tax hike for deficit...
- Thread starter AY1234567
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Zander
Platinum Member
It's the spending, stupid.
- Thread starter
- #3
Go on...
RachelMadcow
Rookie
- Mar 29, 2011
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- #4
Democrats create ghettos
Zander
Platinum Member
That's pretty much it bub. The feds take in $2.2 trillion- they do not have an INCOME problem. The spend $3.8 trillion. They have a SPENDING problem.
How do you fix a SPENDING problem??
Mr Liberty
Hater of Socialism
Where is the respect for private property? The government already spends far too much money. The government continues to grow. It doesn't shrink as the private sector does. Revenues drop as the private sector recedes. The average American has to curb individual spending and the government demands more from those who are still producing. How are you blind to the evil in this practice?
Charles_Main
AR15 Owner
Raising taxes will only make them want to keep spending this much. The Government took in over 2 TRILLION dollars in taxes last year. They then spent 3.6 Trillion dollars. We do not need to be spending 3.6 Trillion dollars a year, and if we simply raise taxes to cover the gap, the government will simply keep spending that much and more a year.
I am not opposed to some tax increases, but Obama is insane. 1 Trillion in new taxes? He wants a blank check to continue spending more than 3 Trillion dollars a year. Why in gods name do they need to spend 12,000 dollars a year, per person in this country?
I bet you my next months salary an honest, neutral person using pragmatic Logic would find nearly 1 trillion dollars in savings in the Budget simply by eliminating Waste, and redundancy.
So to put it short, we oppose raising taxes on anyone right now because that will hurt the slow economic Growth we have right now. We oppose raising taxes to fix the current budget crisis because we think the Government is spending more than it should and the answer is to cut spending, not give the Government more money to spend every year.
You have to understand with the way our system works. It will always be easier to spend more than it will be to spend less. Our politicians Build, Maintain and measure their power by spending cash. Once a spending program is in place you play hell to end them. Even when they are no longer needed. Like the Rural Electrification program. Which still to this day has a several Million dollar budget to "Bring electricity to rural America" yet it is pretty hard to find any place in the us where there is a need for juice but no company willing to sell it. That program is from the 30's and has been no longer needed since the early 60's by most honest assessments yet we spend on it each year still. Keeping bureaucrats in unneeded Jobs in order to avoid laying anyone off. Oh My.
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
Um...Maybe because "the wealthy" didn't run up a $14 trillion debt.
Truthseeker420
Gold Member
spectrumc01
I give you....the TRUTH
I would be more than happy to discuss cuts at home after we have cut all of our foriegn aid spending. It is unfathomable and unacceptable to ask the american public to make cuts when we are subsidizing foriegn countries.
kyzr
Diamond Member
Exactly right. The Feds should be able to live in $2.0-trillion and not a dime more. That $2T was their budget until recently, and now its $3.8-trillion???? IMHO we need another Grace Commission to rip the hell out of DC and wring out $2T that we don't need.
Mr Liberty
Hater of Socialism
Excellent point. The rich have never taken anything from me. The poor have taken much.
spectrumc01
I give you....the TRUTH
If you have a poor person and a rich person and you need to have $20.00 which one do you ask for it from? the rich guy or the poor guy? By cutting programs that people depend on to live you take away their means which pushes them into crime. so now we pay for their room and board in prison in stead.
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
Ask?!?!????
Since when did the IRS or the federal socialistic welfare state monstrosity it feeds ever ask for money from the peasants?
Mr Liberty
Hater of Socialism
Sure, I strongly support we stop subsidizing foriegn countries. I have never supported foreign aid or providing for the defense of any foreign country. Now, what social programs are you willing to part with?
Zander
Platinum Member
That's why we have family, friends, and charities- to help the needy. We also have prisons for criminals who commit crimes. Government is not your mommy.
Anachronism
Rookie
- Banned
- #17
This is actually pretty simple....
The cause of the deficit is not a lack of tax revenue. The cause of the deficit is the American Government spending more money than it has available to it. Kind of like the old axiom.... "How can I be out of money, I still have checks left?!?!"
I make a pretty fair living, a little more than $60K a year. I have certain fiscal responsibilities, paying for my rent, my car, food, and other essentials. After that is done I have a certain amount of "disposable" income that I can spend or save. Depending on what I do with that disposable income, I may find myself in a position where I cannot purchase things that I WANT because I don't have the money. At that point I can either go into DEBT (borrow from friends, credit cards, loans, etc...); take money from the essentials; or choose not to make the purchase.
The Government works in a similar way. There are certain essential services that the Federal Government is required to maintain. They're listed in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. The difference is that legally speaking, the US Government is not supposed to have any "disposable" or "discretionary" spending. It's not on the list of things they can do. However, over time the Government has ignored the rules and spent with reckless abandon on those discretionary items, by claiming that some of them are legitimate items and ignoring the rules for the other stuff. Even worse, they are constantly borrowing from themselves and foreign governments to finance this inappropriate spending.
To that end, it is the SPENDING, not the taxes that get the US Government into trouble. If you or I only have $100 in the bank, we can't get $300 out of the ATM. The US Government CAN, and HAS, with no intent to pay it back, nevermind a plan to do so.
The fix to this problem is actually already starting to be put in place, with the US House of Representatives new rule that all spending bills MUST include an affadavid as to which of the 18 specific items in Article I, Section 8 the power to spend that money comes under. IF the Republican majority maintains that rule and enforces it, it should be a very small step towards starting to fix things. I'm not holding my breath on it actually happening, though.
Truthseeker420
Gold Member
Are you joking? corporate welfare is one of our biggest reasons for the national debt.
- Moderator
- #19
Not really hard to understand.
Those who work in America, even at the low end of the spectrum, pay nearly 1/3 of their income to the government. In other words, they are litterally working until April before they break even with their taxes. Is it right that anyone should have to work for 4 months for the government, essentially as slaves? Does it matter if they are super wealthy or super poor? Is it right for any person to be oppressed like this?
Now, take into account that those who are wealthy have the ability to move more easily than those who are not. They can afford to pick up and leave a higher tax jurisdiction to move to a place with lesser taxes. They can move their wealth from a higher tax jurisdiction to a lower tax one. When we increase taxes, those who have wealth transfer from a wealth creation mode to a wealth protection mode. They move themselves and their wealth into other nations/states that have less of a tax burden or atleast move their wealth into low risk/tax investments.
By doing this, the government ends up getting less revenue that it might previously have recieved in a growing economy at a lesser rate because there are less wealthy people to tax. Additionally, because the wealthy are moving the money and themselves into other less burdensome jurisdictions, the burden for the taxes increasingly shifts to those who have less money.
In the end, increasing taxes of all people ends up hurting the poor and decreasing revenues. It ends up slowing the economy. Less revenues without equally less spending = higher deficit & more debt.
The problem with this nation is clearly not revenues. We have over 2 Trillion in revenues. We are spending 3+ Trillions. The problem is that we are spending a heck of alot more than we are taking in. If we take in 1 trillion more in revenues, we know through sad experience that our politicians will spend 2 trillion more.
It's a neverending cycle that leads to bankruptcy and economic ruin if we don't address the spending problem our representatives have.
And the biggest obstacle to fixing this problems is ourselves. If we as a individuals don't stop taking money from the government through handouts and start living within our means and learn to govern & provide for ourselves, we will not fix anything.
Those who work in America, even at the low end of the spectrum, pay nearly 1/3 of their income to the government. In other words, they are litterally working until April before they break even with their taxes. Is it right that anyone should have to work for 4 months for the government, essentially as slaves? Does it matter if they are super wealthy or super poor? Is it right for any person to be oppressed like this?
Now, take into account that those who are wealthy have the ability to move more easily than those who are not. They can afford to pick up and leave a higher tax jurisdiction to move to a place with lesser taxes. They can move their wealth from a higher tax jurisdiction to a lower tax one. When we increase taxes, those who have wealth transfer from a wealth creation mode to a wealth protection mode. They move themselves and their wealth into other nations/states that have less of a tax burden or atleast move their wealth into low risk/tax investments.
By doing this, the government ends up getting less revenue that it might previously have recieved in a growing economy at a lesser rate because there are less wealthy people to tax. Additionally, because the wealthy are moving the money and themselves into other less burdensome jurisdictions, the burden for the taxes increasingly shifts to those who have less money.
In the end, increasing taxes of all people ends up hurting the poor and decreasing revenues. It ends up slowing the economy. Less revenues without equally less spending = higher deficit & more debt.
The problem with this nation is clearly not revenues. We have over 2 Trillion in revenues. We are spending 3+ Trillions. The problem is that we are spending a heck of alot more than we are taking in. If we take in 1 trillion more in revenues, we know through sad experience that our politicians will spend 2 trillion more.
It's a neverending cycle that leads to bankruptcy and economic ruin if we don't address the spending problem our representatives have.
And the biggest obstacle to fixing this problems is ourselves. If we as a individuals don't stop taking money from the government through handouts and start living within our means and learn to govern & provide for ourselves, we will not fix anything.
- Moderator
- #20
Foreign aid would be a good start. but it really will barely touch our problem. The problem is with our entitlement mentality. We need to break that.
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