Trump’s Continuing Election Fraud Lies.

[flacaltenn]

All you have are unsubstantiated allegations of "ballot harvesting." Back it up. Link me to your sources.

Not working for you until you answer the original questions.. Ballot harvesting is a real thing. ESPECIALLY in smaller city and county elections where it takes little effort to win an election in which few people vote..

We gonna agree FIRST -- that there is NO HONEST JUSTIFICATION for random 3rd parties to be in between a voter and the counting machines..

 

[flacaltenn]

While I'm waiting on JohnLaw to show ANY concern for voting integrity.....

Philly was ground zero for hijinks in 2020 election.. City has a LONG history of jacking elections for Democrats..

DOJ Convicts Former Philly Judge of Elections Who Stuffed Ballots for Bribes

The Justice Department announced Thursday that a former Pennsylvania election official was convicted of accepting $2,500 in bribes to stuff ballots for three Democratic candidates for Common Pleas Court judge in Philadelphia.

Domenick J. Demuro pled guilty in March to the charges in a filing that was unsealed Thursday, the DOJ said. He admitted to being directed by an unnamed political consultant to inflate votes for “clients and preferred candidates” in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 primaries in exchange for “money and other things of value.” While he only cast 27 fraudulent ballots in the 2014 election, 40 votes in May 2015, and 46 in 2016, election results showed that the numbers accounted for over 22 percent of the total votes cast from Demuro’s voting location in 2014, over 15 percent in 2015, and over 17 percent in 2016.

Fact Check: Does Philadelphia Have a 'Rotten History on Election Integrity' as Trump Claims?

One of the city's largest cases of fraud was in 1993, when a federal judge had to overturn the results of a state senate election after it was concluded that Democrats had forged hundreds of absentee ballots.

In 2017, the city had a case of fraud during a special election for a statehouse seat. Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro charged polling-place workers in one location with intimidating voters, casting fake ballots and falsely certifying results.

 

[flacaltenn]

In California which is now more like Soviet Politburo "one-party" machine and in N. Carolina where ballot harvesting has also been found.

How Ballot-Harvesting Became The New Way To Steal An Election

With ballot-harvesting, paper votes are collected by intermediaries, presumably increasing voter turnout but also creating opportunities for mischief.

thefederalist.com

In California, by contrast, Democrats exulted as they credited a quietly passed 2016 law legalizing ballot-harvesting with their recent sweep of House seats in the former Republican stronghold of Orange County, thereby helping them win control of the House. In that case, it was Republican eyebrows that were arched. House Speaker Paul Ryan said what happened in California “defies logic.”

In Orange County, an estimated 250,000 harvested ballots were reportedly dropped off on Election Day alone. County Republican Chairman Fred Whitaker claimed the 2016 law “directly caused the switch from being ahead on election night to losing two weeks later.”

One interaction caught by a Santa Clarita family’s doorbell camera suggested how harvesting can work in practice. A harvester, identifying herself as Lulu, asks for Brandi, and says she is there to collect her ballot, explaining that there is “this new service, but only to, like, people who are supporting the Democratic Party.”

In fact, one TV station interviewed a harvester who claimed she was paid by Leslie McCrae Dowless Jr., a local political operative, between $75 and $100 a week to pick up completed absentee ballots. Dowless has worked for numerous North Carolina politicians of both political parties.

Dowless’s connection to Harris’s campaign, which paid Harris’s employer $428,000 for administrative, staff and grassroots services, is prompting a national look at ballot harvesting, which is considered election fraud because North Carolina law specifically prohibits anyone from collecting ballots.

But evidence is emerging that Dowless wasn’t the only one harvesting in the Tar Heel State. WBTV, a Charlotte station, reviewed 796 official ballot envelopes of votes cast in Bladen County. The review identified 110 that were signed by two women who are listed as having been paid by a PAC connected to the North Carolina Democratic Party.

North Carolina is but one example of dubious ballot-harvesting nationwide. The practice is so common, harvesters even have their own region-specific names. In Florida, they’re known as “boleteros.” In Texas, they’re called “politiqueras.”

 

[JLW]

Not working for you until you answer the original questions.. Ballot harvesting is a real thing. ESPECIALLY in smaller city and county elections where it takes little effort to win an election in which few people vote..

We gonna agree FIRST -- that there is NO HONEST JUSTIFICATION for random 3rd parties to be in between a voter and the counting machines..

So, your question is, “WHY should random strangers EVER BE ALLOWED between a voter and the counting machines??”

First, please let’s define “random strangers.” If by “random strangers“ you mean any person who walks off the street and picks up ballots at a drop box, I agree with you. If by “random strangers” you mean a volunteer or volunteers who work for the local elections office assigned to ballot retrieval, then I disagree with you. Someone has to pick up the ballots.


All absentee ballots from the 1850s onward have depended on a middle man somewhere along the route. My first vote in 1976 for Gerald Ford was via absentee ballot. Some one had to send me the ballot. Some one received the ballot and someone counted the ballot. In other words there have always been middlemen in the election process. Prior to touch screen voting, we all depended on someone to count our votes.

These election Volunteers who performed these duties were totally unknown to me. Despite my not knowing who they are I have no doubt my vote was counted.

As far as ballot harvesting, which may be the focus of your question. goes there is controversy with these laws. We do have to be on the guard for potential fraud. Studies have found that ballot collection has had no effect on elections.

Editorial: No, Republicans didn't lose in California because of ballot harvesting. But the practice is concerning

Rather than take responsibility for their losses, Republicans have seized on a new state law that allows third parties to collect and turn in other people’s mail ballots to explain why they were so badly defeated in California races on Nov. 6.

www.latimes.com

Nonetheless we should be careful how it is utilized. The idea of anyone, not a family member or associated with the elections office or a credible civic organization, going to your house to pick up ballots is something to be leery of. Interesting enough the only credible evidence of fraud in ballot harvesting is from a GOP operative in North Carolina.

‘See also for a good discussion on ballot harvesting or collection:

Is ballot collection, or ‘ballot harvesting,’ good for democracy? We asked 5 experts

The U.S. Supreme Court is considering whether a ban on the third-party collection of mail-in ballots is legal. The practice is allowed in 26 states.

theconversation.com

 

[JLW]

Because we're all still waiting for you John to present us with the proof of the lies!

WHO DEBUNKED ALL THESE LIES?

Where can I see the official transparent government report where independent investigators dissected all of the claims, evidence, witnesses, video and affidavits associated with a president reporting that a national election was corrupt and rigged, and found it all baseless so that the country could put all of this behind us all and restore our confidence in our election integrity?

How many millions were spent on the investigation? How many hundreds of days?

Let me ask you this, how many lawsuits contesting the election results did Trump win? Was it not Trump’s own administration officials who called the election the safest in history? Are not Trump’s attorneys facing disbarment proceedings because of their lies of election fraud and abuse of process?

 

[EMH]

You can live your virtual on-line life dismissing ALL sources that dont agree with your POV.. That's at your peril and strictly for your convenience. On message boards for discussion -- that scores ZERO points lately because there's no discussion possible with the fractured and divided media..

You SCORE POINTS by disassembling the bias and misrepresentations and tearing them up with facts and logic and reason. Otherwise no one here LEARNS anything, Even if they choose to ignore it, you've contributed to planting doubt about their CHOICES of media..

The endless clamoring for a link is typical of a leftist dusted in debate here...


All the Dems here know the Dems cheated. Many participated.....

 

[Chillicothe]

"....there is NO HONEST JUSTIFICATION for random 3rd parties to be in between a voter and the counting machines..

As the poster John Law has articulated --- depends on the meaning of 'random'.

I can think of a whole bunch of ballot 'collection' middlemen as being practical and useful. At a nursing home. At a hospital. At a jail. Shuts-ins, disabled, swamped with child responsibilities, swamped with work responsibilities, too busy, too unmotivated. All are legitimate reasons that a qualified vetted individual could gather properly completed ballots and deliver to the appropriate counters.

The determinant is: Does the individual who casts the ballot have a right to vote?

If they do, then it is incumbent upon our governance to allow or make available safe means that enable them to cast that vote legitimately.


Is illegal harvesting bad. Yes.
Is legal and appropriate harvesting bad. No

 

[EMH]

Let me ask you this, how many lawsuits contesting the election results did Trump win? Was it not Trump’s own administration officials who called the election the safest in history? Are not Trump’s attorneys facing disbarment proceedings because of their lies of election fraud and abuse of process?

A black appealing to all KKK judges gets the same treatment.

Zionist Jew traitors masquerading as judges here did that.

They never allowed any evidence to be presented. You know that, so you beat it like a drum, and all that proves is that you know what happened and you are an active participant in it...

 

[Colin norris]

We will see your tears on Friday, the beginning of the end of traitor Joe's bullshit tenure as one who stole the office...

You're gonna be disappointed. Joe will be going nowhere and you know it.
All you have is hope and it was never a good contraception and it won't work in this case.

You lot of dunces have been peddling the lie the election will be turned over. The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

35 states voted GOP state house and state senate.

Traitor Joe won none of those.

AZ falls Friday.

That will force audits in reluctant Zionist/left states like MI and NH.

Traitor Joe lost 35 states and then engaged in the worst election fraud ever.

Everyone defending that is a traitor.

Trumpers lie.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Trump's legacy is TWO impeachments, ignoring/denying Covid, and being the biggest sore loser in history.

Trump's legacy is twice failed to win the popular vote, twice impeached, voted out of office as a failed, incompetent ‘president.’

 

[toobfreak]

Raffensperger findings may go against your narrative, but those are the facts.

Good work, Slaw-baby! You dug up another conspiratory RINO to team up with the Left to get DJT out by hook or crook, and those are his claims, but you are so eager to accept them, that tells me these are anything but facts!

NO ONE NEEDS TO LISTEN TO TRUMP, one only needs to examine the voluminous facts. That election of a year ago stinks to high heaven with unexplained inconsistencies, impossible odds, prefaced by over a year of legal wrangling by the DNC to get radical law changes put into place all across this country long before anyone even heard of the word Covid before, combined with the fact that a long bevy of secretive, radically left organizations have already come forward and bragged about how they all coordinated a massive effort with millions of people to steer the election toward cheating Trump out of a reelection.

It is all a matter of irefutable history now. Joe Biden is an installed coercive puppet regime, and everything he has done since being in office stands as clear proof of that.

 

[toobfreak]

Let me ask you this, how many lawsuits contesting the election results did Trump win?

None of that proves anything when you look at the circumstances rather than just the results.

Was it not Trump’s own administration officials who called the election the safest in history?

And just how the **** would any of them know? And again, you have denounced these people 10,000 times as liars and cheats, but THIS TIME, they are telling us the pure truth? Really John?

Are not Trump’s attorneys facing disbarment proceedings because of their lies of election fraud and abuse of process?

Won't be the first time a union worked to cover up the facts to sanitize itself.

Once again, not only is all of your "evidence" entirely circumstantial requiring leaps of presumption to try to bridge where you are trying to go, you do it as a diversion here to continue not answering any of the questions put to you!

 

[Chillicothe]

"Zionist Jew traitors masquerading as judges here did that.........They never allowed any evidence to be presented."

Ah, good poster EMH (one of my all-time favs).....here's how it works during Adult Swim time:

• Name names.
• Name the court jurisdiction.
• Give us the ruling by the judge you name.

Not my rules, good poster EMH. It is how the real world of real people works. Honest.
The forum is mildly confident you can adapt to that world.

But first, start by naming names. Name court jurisdictions.

Good luck.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Voter ID laws do not discriminate among ages and races. Neither do bans on ballot harvesting.

Wrong.

“Strict photo identification laws have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of Hispanics, Blacks, and mixed-race Americans.

In an article in the Washington Post summarizing their research, the authors expound on the political conclusions of their work:

‘By instituting strict voter ID laws, states can alter the electorate and shift outcomes toward those on the right. Where these laws are enacted, the influence of Democrats and liberals wanes and the power of Republicans grows. Unsurprisingly, these strict ID laws are passed almost exclusively by Republican legislatures.’”

How Voter ID Laws Discriminate Against Racial Minorities

A new study finds evidence that strict voting laws do suppress the ballot by race.

www.theatlantic.com

Moreover, voter ID laws are unwarranted and unnecessary, ‘solutions’ in search of a ‘problem’ that doesn’t exist.

Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth

The president has continued to claim voter fraud was a problem in the 2016 election. A look at the facts makes clear fraud is rare, and does not happen on a scale even close to necessary to “rig” an election.

www.brennancenter.org

 

[toobfreak]

Strict photo identification laws have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of Hispanics, Blacks, and mixed-race Americans.

THEN PRODUCE THE ACTUAL VICTIMS, DICKWEED! Put them on television with a mic in their hand to tell their story! Quit telling us about all these poor victims we never see nor can anyone produce! Just like you could never produce a single person who actually changed their vote because a few people from Russia ran a few ads on Facebook! Just like you keep telling us about a great lie and how all these thousands of bits of evidence of election fraud have all been debunked but can never tell us by who or how? Or where you read it!

Time and again, people have stopped and asked Blacks if they have ever had any trouble getting a voter card or other ID and they look at you like you are nuts.

 

[basquebromance]

Trump lies like he breathes air

 

[JLW]

So, your question is, “WHY should random strangers EVER BE ALLOWED between a voter and the counting machines??”

First, please let’s define “random strangers.” If by “random strangers“ you mean any person who walks off the street and picks up ballots at a drop box, I agree with you. If by “random strangers” you mean a volunteer or volunteers who work for the local elections office assigned to ballot retrieval, then I disagree with you. Someone has to pick up the ballots.


All absentee ballots from the 1850s onward have depended on a middle man somewhere along the route. My first vote in 1976 for Gerald Ford was via absentee ballot. Some one had to send me the ballot. Some one received the ballot and someone counted the ballot. In other words there have always been middlemen in the election process. Prior to touch screen voting, we all depended on someone to count our votes.

These election Volunteers who performed these duties were totally unknown to me. Despite my not knowing who they are I have no doubt my vote was counted.

As far as ballot harvesting, which may be the focus of your question. goes there is controversy with these laws. We do have to be on the guard for potential fraud. Studies have found that ballot collection has had no effect on elections.

Editorial: No, Republicans didn't lose in California because of ballot harvesting. But the practice is concerning

Rather than take responsibility for their losses, Republicans have seized on a new state law that allows third parties to collect and turn in other people’s mail ballots to explain why they were so badly defeated in California races on Nov. 6.

www.latimes.com

Nonetheless we should be careful how it is utilized. The idea of anyone, not a family member or associated with the elections office or a credible civic organization, going to your house to pick up ballots is something to be leery of. Interesting enough the only credible evidence of fraud in ballot harvesting is from a GOP operative in North Carolina.

‘See also for a good discussion on ballot harvesting or collection:

Is ballot collection, or ‘ballot harvesting,’ good for democracy? We asked 5 experts

The U.S. Supreme Court is considering whether a ban on the third-party collection of mail-in ballots is legal. The practice is allowed in 26 states.

theconversation.com

I will amend my answer somewhat when it comes to ballot harvesting/collection. My primary source is Ballot harvesting laws by state - Ballotpedia.

Ballot Harvesting is not illegal in most states though the laws vary from state to state:

Here are the state breakdowns:

As can be seen ballot collection is legal in most states regardless of which political party controls the state.

As of August 2020, only one state Alabama required only the voter return the ballot. That may have changed due to the election fraud lie.

Despite the rant of Flacaltenn, nearly all states that permitted ballot collection saw little fraud, except for Instance, by GOP operatives in North Carolina. Furthermore, at least 24 states have laws similar to California’s that has Flacaltenn so upset. Many of those state’s are GOP controlled. As I said some of those GOP states may have modified those laws because of the election fraud lie.

So as to Flacaltenn’s concern about “random strangers”, yes as I wrote the question is one as to who is a random stranger. However, if a person from a civic organization or volunteer from a party I belong to comes to my house to pick up my ballot because I am unable to do because of health issues, then why should he not be able to do so. What fraud can possibly occur if it is from an organization that agrees with me politically?

Yes, we need to be on guard for improprieties regarding ballot collection, but it is not rife with fraud or corruption as some make it out to be.

 

[22lcidw]

One simply has to sit back an admire the articulateness and command of the language as is so often demonstrated by MAGAHats.
Are such supporters as above representative of all Trump supporters? In educational level? In maturity? In informed insight? In their reveling in using some naughty words? In short, is poster Hang-on-Sloopy the archetypical Trumper? Is he simply type-cast for that role?

My avatar ain't one to judge. Rather we'll let the MAGAHats embrace his style of enthusiasm for Trump-ism.

YMMV

Your sickness is that you must be satisfied by people genuflecting to your ways of how living must be for all. While your Prog Saul Alinsky agenda pushes the man Trump all the times and his ways, it is his agendas that were good for us all if you believe in the United States as being a free and sovereign nation. We are so far gone now within a half century that we know we have produced a shadow on the land and it is getting darker and we want more of it. You want real socialism and world government. Then reduce the pensions and benefits of all retirees from big unions, teamsters, government employment to start. That will free up untold trillions of dollars for your social experiments. Freeze the wages of the same in active employment in all ways for a few years also. Over several years the reductions will enhance all of the programs you need. Socialism is not cheap. Socialism may have peasant people ended up tax at near 70% at some point. Some cold water on your face there.

 

[EMH]

You're gonna be disappointed. Joe will be going nowhere and you know it.
All you have is hope and it was never a good contraception and it won't work in this case.

You lot of dunces have been peddling the lie the election will be turned over. The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

This one participated in the steal...