Trump to save money by giving our troops cheaper equipment

[bodecea]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Funny how the draft dodging POS Trump hid from war & wants out troops in war with inferior weapons.

Really Trumpettes? Is this what you voted for?

Really...? This is what you bring......

You really think that we are getting quality for the money we are paying these companies? That the cost over runs, the shoddy work can't be better dealt with than just continuing the same crappy system where they buy politicians, get the government contract then screw us over....you think that you are defending our troops by defending this system...

Please...try again....

Not to mention, that high tech jet fighters are NOT what is required for our current and likely wars. It's not like ISIS is going to contest our air superiority.

Because we'll only ever again be dealing with ISIS-like foes..................................

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Oh well. As long as what he gets is just as good if not better. What is there to whine about?

God bless you and our new leader always!!!

Holly

 

[RealDave]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Funny how the draft dodging POS Trump hid from war & wants out troops in war with inferior weapons.

Really Trumpettes? Is this what you voted for?

Only an ignorant libtard would over pay for anything. What's wrong with getting the best for less? Didn't libtards spend decades complaining about$1,000 hammers ang $500 toilet seats? Trump will fix that while you scream no fair.

So, you think companies will just lower the price because El Dumpster is having a tantrum. These companies need to make a decent profit else they will cut somewhere to make it. Bullying companies by threatening their stock being manipulated is not good practice if you really want the best product.

I wonder, what is the dollar value of the pilot in Trumps cost calculations? The troops on the ground counting on air support? What happens when our pilots driving lesser cost aircraft encounter the Chinese who opted to build the best, not the cheapest.

 

[Flopper]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Funny how the draft dodging POS Trump hid from war & wants out troops in war with inferior weapons.

Really Trumpettes? Is this what you voted for?

He's going to need that money to keep up with the arms race he has just started. Apparently our arsenal of 7300 nuclear warheads are not going to be enough for Trump. He will only be able to level and make unlivable all cities on earth over 100,000. The Good News for Trump is Putin has also expressed his desire to upgrade Russia's arsenal of 8,000 warheads, enough to take out all the medium sizes cities on earth. The other nuclear powers, France, UK, China, Pakistan, India, brings the current worldwide total of nuclear warheads to about 17,000 so there should be enough now to reduce the earth to a burning cinder fit for only insects. Does the idiot really see a need to wipe them out too?

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-35 carries so little ordnance in stealth as to be virtually worthless

 

[eagle1462010]

Actually, yes.

One of my pet peeves for years has been the F-35. Let me explain why. When you go to get your car fixed, the mechanic has a bunch of tools, perhaps thousands of them in a big box. The mechanic does not simply buy a Swiss Army Knife and decide he has all the tools he needs. He wants, and you expect him to have the right tool for the job.

The F-35 is a Swiss Army Knife. It is expected to do all the jobs, and it does, but not better than a dedicated tool for the job in question. It can not do ground support for the troops as well as an A-10. The old aircraft has just been given a new lease on life because testing showed it was better than the F-35 by a large margin. So equipping every squadron in the Air Force with the F-35 would actually reduce the capabilities available to the troops.

But wait, there is more. Most of the missions are being ready flying overhead to provide some intelligence and perhaps ready to strike a target of opportunity or hitting a target or two for close air support of embattled troops. The F-35 has less loitering time than other aircraft already in the system, and less than new aircraft coming into the market.

Let me introduce you to one that would be fantastic for that kind of job.

Home - Textron AirLand

For the cost of one F-35 you could equip half a squadron with these. They are built using mostly off the shelf parts. The wings, avionics, engines, and controls are all from Civillian aircraft in use right now. That means that repairs are going to cost a fraction of what they would be for the F-35. To that end, the cost per hour of operation is going to be about a quarter of the cost of the F-35 to run. So you can buy more of them, and fly them more for the same cash. Sort of like buying a car for the gas mileage, you know more is better.

Is it the cutting edge of technology? No, and it doesn't need to be for about half the missions that the F-35 will be doing. Just as home tool kits normally are not as extensive or as expensive as the Mechanic's tools at the auto shop. You don't need ten grand in Snap On Tools to change the oil, but he does need them to change the seals on all the different cars he will see.

I am not opposed to spending money for what is needed. The F-35 may be a good deep strike fighter bomber, and it is undeniably better than the F-18 for that job. But that expensive plane is not a one size fits all answer to every mission. If we go with other available airframes even with modernization programs for some of them we provide greater capability with less cost for specific missions.

I'm not surprised you would object. If Obama had said that was what was needed, I bet you wouldn't spend a moment arguing that the troops need the more expensive aircraft. My objections are based upon facts, and my support for alternatives are based upon those facts.

But that isn't what you expect, informed and logical information. Nope, all you think is Trump is bad, and anything he proposes is automatically bad. That kind of response is what we normally call knee jerk, and it's useless.

Wow. The extend you go to to defend your orange buddy. versatility...who needs it. Because we always know exactly wjat we will be facing at any location at any time. Donald J Trump does not know shit about military aircraft. He certainly does not know shit about nuclear weapons,.

LOL

Perhaps we should hire another Community organizer.

Perhaps you should have instead on the con man you just did.

Do you know what a community organizer does?

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

 

[koshergrl]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Funny how the draft dodging POS Trump hid from war & wants out troops in war with inferior weapons.

Really Trumpettes? Is this what you voted for?

Really...? This is what you bring......

You really think that we are getting quality for the money we are paying these companies? That the cost over runs, the shoddy work can't be better dealt with than just continuing the same crappy system where they buy politicians, get the government contract then screw us over....you think that you are defending our troops by defending this system...

Please...try again....

Shut up! It's unpatriotic not to waste money on the military!

 

[eagle1462010]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Funny how the draft dodging POS Trump hid from war & wants out troops in war with inferior weapons.

Really Trumpettes? Is this what you voted for?

He's going to need that money to keep up with the arms race he has just started. Apparently our arsenal of 7300 nuclear warheads are not going to be enough for Trump. He will only be able to level and make unlivable all cities on earth over 100,000. The Good News for Trump is Putin has also expressed his desire to upgrade Russia's arsenal of 8,000 warheads, enough to take out all the medium sizes cities on earth. The other nuclear powers, France, UK, China, Pakistan, India, brings the current worldwide total of nuclear warheads to about 17,000 so there should be enough now to reduce the earth to a burning cinder fit for only insects. Does the idiot really see a need to wipe them out too?

It is now down to 4500..........so your numbers are wrong..........

The dangers of our aging nuclear arsenal

READ.............

 

[Flopper]

Wow. The extend you go to to defend your orange buddy. versatility...who needs it. Because we always know exactly wjat we will be facing at any location at any time. Donald J Trump does not know shit about military aircraft. He certainly does not know shit about nuclear weapons,.

LOL

Perhaps we should hire another Community organizer.

Perhaps you should have instead on the con man you just did.

Do you know what a community organizer does?

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

The same way it happened in second half of the 20th century. The US flexes it's muscles and Russia, China, and other nuclear power up the stakes with more weapons, not to be outdone by the US. The administration then claims America will be in great danger if they don't meet these challenges and congress gives the administration zillions of dollars. Other nations, not to be left behind continue the insanity.

 

[rahtruelies]

Actually, yes.

One of my pet peeves for years has been the F-35. Let me explain why. When you go to get your car fixed, the mechanic has a bunch of tools, perhaps thousands of them in a big box. The mechanic does not simply buy a Swiss Army Knife and decide he has all the tools he needs. He wants, and you expect him to have the right tool for the job.

The F-35 is a Swiss Army Knife. It is expected to do all the jobs, and it does, but not better than a dedicated tool for the job in question. It can not do ground support for the troops as well as an A-10. The old aircraft has just been given a new lease on life because testing showed it was better than the F-35 by a large margin. So equipping every squadron in the Air Force with the F-35 would actually reduce the capabilities available to the troops.

But wait, there is more. Most of the missions are being ready flying overhead to provide some intelligence and perhaps ready to strike a target of opportunity or hitting a target or two for close air support of embattled troops. The F-35 has less loitering time than other aircraft already in the system, and less than new aircraft coming into the market.

Let me introduce you to one that would be fantastic for that kind of job.

Home - Textron AirLand

For the cost of one F-35 you could equip half a squadron with these. They are built using mostly off the shelf parts. The wings, avionics, engines, and controls are all from Civillian aircraft in use right now. That means that repairs are going to cost a fraction of what they would be for the F-35. To that end, the cost per hour of operation is going to be about a quarter of the cost of the F-35 to run. So you can buy more of them, and fly them more for the same cash. Sort of like buying a car for the gas mileage, you know more is better.

Is it the cutting edge of technology? No, and it doesn't need to be for about half the missions that the F-35 will be doing. Just as home tool kits normally are not as extensive or as expensive as the Mechanic's tools at the auto shop. You don't need ten grand in Snap On Tools to change the oil, but he does need them to change the seals on all the different cars he will see.

I am not opposed to spending money for what is needed. The F-35 may be a good deep strike fighter bomber, and it is undeniably better than the F-18 for that job. But that expensive plane is not a one size fits all answer to every mission. If we go with other available airframes even with modernization programs for some of them we provide greater capability with less cost for specific missions.

I'm not surprised you would object. If Obama had said that was what was needed, I bet you wouldn't spend a moment arguing that the troops need the more expensive aircraft. My objections are based upon facts, and my support for alternatives are based upon those facts.

But that isn't what you expect, informed and logical information. Nope, all you think is Trump is bad, and anything he proposes is automatically bad. That kind of response is what we normally call knee jerk, and it's useless.

Wow. The extend you go to to defend your orange buddy. versatility...who needs it. Because we always know exactly wjat we will be facing at any location at any time. Donald J Trump does not know shit about military aircraft. He certainly does not know shit about nuclear weapons,.

LOL

Perhaps we should hire another Community organizer.

Perhaps you should have instead on the con man you just did.

Do you know what a community organizer does?

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

dave its kinda obvious you are a still butthurting klintoon troll

 

[2aguy]

LOL

Perhaps we should hire another Community organizer.

Perhaps you should have instead on the con man you just did.

Do you know what a community organizer does?

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

The same way it happened in second half of the 20th century. The US flexes it's muscles and Russia, China, and other nuclear power up the stakes with more weapons, not to be outdone by the US. The administration then claims America will be in great danger if they don't meet these challenges and congress gives the administration zillions of dollars. Other nations, not to be left behind continue the insanity.

Russia invaded Ukraine...China is building Islands in the South China Sea...they are actually flexing their muscles and they are each improving their militaries and nuclear capabilites....the blame America first bullshit was a lie in the past and it is a lie now....

 

[eagle1462010]

LOL

Perhaps we should hire another Community organizer.

Perhaps you should have instead on the con man you just did.

Do you know what a community organizer does?

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

The same way it happened in second half of the 20th century. The US flexes it's muscles and Russia, China, and other nuclear power up the stakes with more weapons, not to be outdone by the US. The administration then claims America will be in great danger if they don't meet these challenges and congress gives the administration zillions of dollars. Other nations, not to be left behind continue the insanity.

I served during part of the Cold War and I know it sparked an arms race back then........but that Cold War has already been started by Obama and his policies with Russia in Syria.....................

Putin and China are increasing production already..........

FInally, Our existing Nuclear stockpile is old and outdated.....I posted an article where they can't even shut the dang hatches due to freaking rust...........Not to mention having to fire the weapons from a 3.5 inch FLOPPY DISK...........

This state of disrepair is RIDICULOUS................These dang facilities are holding our freaking Nukes...........and this needs to be fixed.........PERIOD.....

 

[JimH52]

Why is trump trying to rethink an established procurement process. His stupid shoot from the hip Tweets will certainly start another war.

 

[The Breeze]

Why is trump trying to rethink an established procurement process. His stupid shoot from the hip Tweets will certainly start another war.

An established procurement process that is rife with cost over runs, waste fraud and abuse.

 

[RealDave]

Perhaps you should have instead on the con man you just did.

Do you know what a community organizer does?

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

The same way it happened in second half of the 20th century. The US flexes it's muscles and Russia, China, and other nuclear power up the stakes with more weapons, not to be outdone by the US. The administration then claims America will be in great danger if they don't meet these challenges and congress gives the administration zillions of dollars. Other nations, not to be left behind continue the insanity.

I served during part of the Cold War and I know it sparked an arms race back then........but that Cold War has already been started by Obama and his policies with Russia in Syria.....................

Putin and China are increasing production already..........

FInally, Our existing Nuclear stockpile is old and outdated.....I posted an article where they can't even shut the dang hatches due to freaking rust...........Not to mention having to fire the weapons from a 3.5 inch FLOPPY DISK...........

This state of disrepair is RIDICULOUS................These dang facilities are holding our freaking Nukes...........and this needs to be fixed.........PERIOD.....

We should update & modernize our nuclear weapon facilities.

But not expand our arsenal. That is stupid & against standing agreements

 

[skookerasbil]

The OP obviously is unfamiliar with the concept of "gold plating"......been going on since the late 40's in the defense industry.

duh

Im laughing..........the level of duh in these forums the last 6 weeks has been stoopid.

 

[eagle1462010]

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

The same way it happened in second half of the 20th century. The US flexes it's muscles and Russia, China, and other nuclear power up the stakes with more weapons, not to be outdone by the US. The administration then claims America will be in great danger if they don't meet these challenges and congress gives the administration zillions of dollars. Other nations, not to be left behind continue the insanity.

I served during part of the Cold War and I know it sparked an arms race back then........but that Cold War has already been started by Obama and his policies with Russia in Syria.....................

Putin and China are increasing production already..........

FInally, Our existing Nuclear stockpile is old and outdated.....I posted an article where they can't even shut the dang hatches due to freaking rust...........Not to mention having to fire the weapons from a 3.5 inch FLOPPY DISK...........

This state of disrepair is RIDICULOUS................These dang facilities are holding our freaking Nukes...........and this needs to be fixed.........PERIOD.....

We should update & modernize our nuclear weapon facilities.

But not expand our arsenal. That is stupid & against standing agreements

Not just the facilities.............the weapons platforms are on average 27 years old.......do you want a misfire due to old wiring............

 

[SavannahMann]

Why is trump trying to rethink an established procurement process. His stupid shoot from the hip Tweets will certainly start another war.

Nova did a show on Battle of the X planes. One of the cost gains was a plane that could be used by all three services. But they aren't interchangeable, or comparable really. The Air Force Plane is the basic plane. We can call it the A model, because that is what the good folks in the Pentagon call it. Then we move along to the B model, the version for the Navy. That had bigger wings for better low speed handling required for Carrier Landings. It has heavier landing gear required for Carrier Landings, and it has reinforced structure required for Carrier Landings. We retired the USS Enterprise because it coudn't be retrofitted with the bigger heavier steam catapult needed to launch the heavier F-35. We required a waiver from Congress to go below the mandated number of operational carriers to do that because the next carrier wasn't actually operational, or floating, or even nearly done with construction yet.

Then we have the C model, the replacement for the Harrier that everyone is agog over. We built a brand new Helicopter Assault ship that would take these awesome stealth fighters the Marines had. Of course, it's also very different from the A or B models, and it actually shares about 40% of the parts of the A or B model, so again commonality is non existent really.

Watch The F-35B Hover To A Landing On A Ship

So we had to spend another hundred million dollars upgrading the ship we actually built for the planes because the original design was suffering a small problem. It was melting the deck of the ship designed to take the plane. Really.

Tell me again about the sanctity of this procurement process you seem all excited about. Wouldn't a ship that can't do the very thing we demanded it be able to do when we bought it be a problem? Woudn't planes advertised to have commonality of parts to simplify the resupply and repair system have a small problem when we consider that in fact, most of the planes aren't actually very common?

Have you ever read or seen the movie based upon the book Pentagon Wars? That is the procurement process in action. It really hasn't changed since the time of the story behind the book.

 

[SavannahMann]

LOL

Well yeah after watching one screw everything up for 8 years unless you are dumb enough to believe the whole damned middle east is on fire now........Libya blows......and ISIS has grown to over 30 countries now.............

Perhaps we can get some more Red Crayons and paints more lines in the Syrian dessert...........that will show them..................

Another Trump voter thinking it is better to have dictators & tyrants rule. No wonder you voted for Trump.

But hey, soon Trump will have us flying surplus Japanese Zeros & dropping nukes.

So why should anyone care?

Explain how he would appropriate the funds for making these changes and getting the funds................Will he have a blank check like Obama to do as he pleases?????? Don't think so...................

So the checks and balances still exist under Trump as they have for every other President before him............He doesn't just say it and POOF it's done...................

You are making up shit you can't support..............and again..............A ONE LINE TWEET AND IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD......

The same way it happened in second half of the 20th century. The US flexes it's muscles and Russia, China, and other nuclear power up the stakes with more weapons, not to be outdone by the US. The administration then claims America will be in great danger if they don't meet these challenges and congress gives the administration zillions of dollars. Other nations, not to be left behind continue the insanity.

I served during part of the Cold War and I know it sparked an arms race back then........but that Cold War has already been started by Obama and his policies with Russia in Syria.....................

Putin and China are increasing production already..........

FInally, Our existing Nuclear stockpile is old and outdated.....I posted an article where they can't even shut the dang hatches due to freaking rust...........Not to mention having to fire the weapons from a 3.5 inch FLOPPY DISK...........

This state of disrepair is RIDICULOUS................These dang facilities are holding our freaking Nukes...........and this needs to be fixed.........PERIOD.....

We should update & modernize our nuclear weapon facilities.

But not expand our arsenal. That is stupid & against standing agreements

What agreements? Bush pulled us out of SALT. What agreements are you talking about?

 

[Flopper]

Donald Trump says he will dump the new fighter that Lockheed is working on & replace it with something cheaper.

Funny how the draft dodging POS Trump hid from war & wants out troops in war with inferior weapons.

Really Trumpettes? Is this what you voted for?

He's going to need that money to keep up with the arms race he has just started. Apparently our arsenal of 7300 nuclear warheads are not going to be enough for Trump. He will only be able to level and make unlivable all cities on earth over 100,000. The Good News for Trump is Putin has also expressed his desire to upgrade Russia's arsenal of 8,000 warheads, enough to take out all the medium sizes cities on earth. The other nuclear powers, France, UK, China, Pakistan, India, brings the current worldwide total of nuclear warheads to about 17,000 so there should be enough now to reduce the earth to a burning cinder fit for only insects. Does the idiot really see a need to wipe them out too?

It is now down to 4500..........so your numbers are wrong..........

The dangers of our aging nuclear arsenal

READ.............

If we have only 4800 warheads instead of 7300 warheads, no one is going to notice once Trump gives the command to launch and most of the large cities in both countries are piles of ashes.

The Chinese have only about 250 warheads, but as one Chinese military strategist said, ten times the number of warheads does not create ten times the deterrent.