Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.

[danielpalos]

but Carrier's parent company, only paid something like 9.5% in corporate income taxes last year, not the 35% marginal corporate tax rate....

so 9.5% was STILL NOT LOW ENOUGH for Carrier to bring it's hundreds of billions that they have stashed in the Cayman Islands, home....

so is zero in taxes, for all the military protection, and roads and highways and airports and postal services and hospitals and schools that train their employees now and for years come..really FAIR?

corporations used to account nearly ALL federal revenues collected at one time, and now it ALL comes on the worker's shoulders? Really? iS THAT truly just/fair? I dunno?

I don't think a president can change tax law, correct? All the employees make money, spread the wealth around and pay taxes so incentives are often offered by governments for that reason.

Having a huge tax base beats the company moving elsewhere. There are also many other taxes associated with running a business than just the federal income, like state, local, etc.

any federal corp tax rate cuts automatically lowers their State corp tax rate, and big corps also work deals with states to pay no local or property taxes....

And you can't count it TWICE.......being the citizen who is paying the fed income taxes, and then give credit to Carrier again for the taxes his WORKER PAID.....

I understand how zero taxes is enticing....BUT REALLY? We, the worker then has to pay for all the services these corporations take advantage of by being here, even if we work for a mom and pop or for ourselves and not working for the corp?

I think making all big corps pay a FLAT RATE tax of 10% or so.... since that is most of their effective tax rates that they pay anyway could help...definitely help them get rid of their gazillion tax lawyer expense through the simplification...

And the problem in the USA is stagnate wages for the worker bees, not necessarily jobs ..but the lack of really good paying jobs or the willingness for employers to raise their wages...and the fall of the ''unions'' means mostly...only lower paying jobs...could it ever be what it once was, for the factory worker? Reality....says no....imo.

How does lowering the federal tax lower the state and local taxes? I don't know what each corporation should pay, but even at zero there's a benefit, plus the owners pay tax as well.

Job pay will not improve until the economy strengthens. Dictating wages isn't the answer since every business is different. Better economy = more competition for workers = better pay and benies.

How do you fund government without tax revenue in modern times?

I'm not going to walk you through the posts.

nothing but right wing fantasy, i got it.

 

[Care4all]

Carrier / UTC = THEIR PARENT COMPANY has only averaged paying 10% in corporate income taxes NOT the 35% marginal corporate tax rate, for the past 15 years with their annual average income of $2.8 Billion....or so.

Carrier/UTC WANTS MORE tax breaks, as in zero taxes for their repatriated profits from overseas... btw, how does this help the USA and help workers get jobs... by companies bringing their money back to the USA to sit in a US bank vs a foreign bank...I don't understand all of that stuff...? Is it the banks that make money off of them bringing their profits made overseas home to the US? It ain't for tax monies, cuz giving them a break of zero percent in taxes is simply zero for the federal govt coffers?

TrumpPence can't make a deal that is not up to them to make, ya know? they have to get their tax breaks through congress and it would not be for Carrier only, but for all corporations...




Trump has pledged repeatedly to keep UTC and Carrier from offshoring jobs, and it now appears that UTC may want a lower tax rate as the price for complying with this demand. Saving middle-class jobs is an important and laudable goal. But policymakers should approach such consequential discussions with all the facts. And the fact is that Carrier’s parent company already pays a relatively low effective tax rate.

As we previously noted, UTC does not have a lot of skin in the game when it comes to federal income taxes. The company paid an effective federal tax rate averaging just 10.3 percent over the 15-year period between 2000 and 2014. And UTC’s most recent annual report shows more of the same: the company paid a federal tax rate of just 9.4 percent on $2.8 billion in U.S. profits last year. This means year after year, the profitable company pays only a fraction of the federal statutory rate of 35 percent.

The company’s push for a corporate tax cut likely has a lot to do with its offshore cash. As of 2015, UTC had a cumulative $29 billion in profits stashed offshore that it claimed it earned abroad and has no intention of repatriating to the United States. The profits, if repatriated, would be subject to the federal corporate tax rate less any taxes it paid to foreign governments.

It’s impossible to know how much of this offshore cash is in the hands of the company’s zero-tax haven subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands or the British Virgin Islands because UTC refuses to disclose this information. (The limited disclosures that have been made by other corporations with offshore cash show these companies are paying single digit tax rates on their foreign profits.) But it seems plausible that when the company warns of “adverse tax consequences” of repatriating from “certain of our subsidiaries,” it has its Caribbean affiliates in mind.

The United States is one of the world’s most advanced democracies, which our federal tax system enables. Infrastructure, public education, health and safety, clean water, safe food, and national defense all require tax dollars—from citizens and corporations. The Unites States simply cannot compete with a zero-percent tax rate, nor should it try.

A company like Carrier, which may be accustomed to stashing money in the Cayman Islands and paying a zero-percent tax rate, certainly would consider the U.S. federal statutory rate “adverse.” But given UTC’s consistent ability to avoid that tax rate over the past 15 years, it’s hard to see why Congress or the incoming Trump administration should prioritize finding a way to cut the company’s taxes even further.

A Few Things to Consider Before Giving Away the Store to Carrier Corp | Tax Justice Blog

See, this is why lefties should never, ever be in charge of anything economic that you want to work.

QUESTION to lefties----------->why would WE want our corporations monies to come back here and sit in a bank as opposed to foreign banks, as asked by a certain popular lefty on here.

ANSWER--------> The lefty, as usual; starts the question with a false premise..............money sitting in the bank! When you have a savings account or some checking accounts, do not the banks pay interest on that money? Do you think they pay that interest just because they can sit in a vault and play with your money, and if they did, how long before they would go broke!

No-no-no lefty economic geniuses, the bank LOANS that cash out to other people, and that is what is called.............the constant velocity of money that makes an economy grow! Imagine, 2 trillion (with a T) that lending institutions can inject into the economy, and gasp..........the fed doesn't have to print it, meaning it won't head straight for the stock and bond markets, it will actually be injected in goods, services, and expansion. I know, a novel concept if you are a lefty.

And before a lefty starts SCREAMING that it is just not fair, I would ask the lefty this other, pertinent, economic question---------->if our system of taxation is as fair as you say it is on corporate taxes, then explain to everyone WHY the only country having problems with re-patriation of money made by its businesses is, that is correct, The United States of America. To believe your lefty economic theory, we would have to assume that companies and corporations do NOT want to bring their money back, just because they don't like us, it has NOTHING to do with how they are taxed when the money enters the country, lol. Now you may be able to fool some other dumb lefties some of the time, but you aren't going to fool most Republicans and moderate Democrats all of the time, hehehehehehe. You people have lost the debate, unless of course you can show our business owners talking about America like most of you far leftists do with pure hate, then maybe we will buy into your talking point. Have a great day_)

You know, not once have I gone after you for being a right winger... and I was CLEAR in my post, that I didn't understand that stuff... you simply could have explained it without ALL of your ''leftist vitriol'' but YOU chose to Go LOW....guess that somehow makes you feel all good inside and about your own human decency! A REAL macho man, eh?

thank you for explaining it...

Do you know what or who do the Cayman banks invest in to make money off of the corps banking there?

And if our banks have more money deposited from corps banking here and less from the fed's creation, will that make the interest banks pay us for our savings deposited with them go up or down?

 

[danielpalos]

The answer is simple, except to righties. simply excise the difference in wages between the Third World and the First World, call it Equalization, and move on to solve other simple problems.

Yep, that's a simple answer alright. Simple answers for simple minds.

any thing else, may be too complicated for the right.

Childish insults are all you have?

nope; just the "gospel Truth".

 

[danielpalos]

Pence did all the tax breaks on the state level as he is still governor. We don't know what Trump promised them.

If a US manufacturer wants tax breaks, just say you are moving your facility to Mexico.

What this entire deal is saying is that we should eliminate corporate income taxes. If we don't & offer the Carriers tax breaks, it will play in international markets as government helping Carrier to produce cheaper products. The same thing we accuse other countries of. These countries could slap a tariff on Carrier for that reason.

Carrier had tax incentives & used government money for training programs & had to pay back a couple million when they opted to move. What ever Trump & Pence have them must have been a whole lot more.

here is the beauty about other countries slapping a tariff on any U.S business that sells their products over seas.
The U.S is in a situation now where we import more than we export, if some pissant country wants to start playing the tariff game, who is in the best position to actually cause financial harm to the other? We need to flip that whole thing around anyway, its time that the U.S dollar stays in the U.S. We need to produce and use our own oil instead of sending billions to the middle east for theirs, we need to start making our own happy meal toys, our clothing our electronics, we need to put a stop to those filthy illegals sending what is estimated at 20 billion a year back to their home countries.
The U.S will not recover until we stop being nothing more than the international bank for the rest of the world
Basically, its our turn.

yet, the right doesn't mind being the international and exorbitantly expensive, superpower.

obama doubled the debt and added 10 trillion.

Fail.

we used to have massive federal budget surpluses, until the republicans got into office.

obama isn't a republican.

Fail.

i know that; why don't you know what I am referring to? not enough attention taxes to support your contention?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fourteen hundred people work at that plant and now their jobs are safe.

Leas than 1,000 of the jobs were saved.
The Right NEVER tells the whole truth!!!

Oh so I guess we should have just let all those people be unemployed because there weren't enough of them for you

No, the Right shouldn't have claimed that 1400 jobs were saved when they weren't.
The Right has to lie even about good news!!!!

Yeah the left NEVER lies or exaggerates

Mommy, mommy he did it too.

Well when you ignore the faults of one and exaggerate the faults of others you get what you get

 

[Iceweasel]

here is the beauty about other countries slapping a tariff on any U.S business that sells their products over seas.
The U.S is in a situation now where we import more than we export, if some pissant country wants to start playing the tariff game, who is in the best position to actually cause financial harm to the other? We need to flip that whole thing around anyway, its time that the U.S dollar stays in the U.S. We need to produce and use our own oil instead of sending billions to the middle east for theirs, we need to start making our own happy meal toys, our clothing our electronics, we need to put a stop to those filthy illegals sending what is estimated at 20 billion a year back to their home countries.
The U.S will not recover until we stop being nothing more than the international bank for the rest of the world
Basically, its our turn.

yet, the right doesn't mind being the international and exorbitantly expensive, superpower.

obama doubled the debt and added 10 trillion.

Fail.

we used to have massive federal budget surpluses, until the republicans got into office.

obama isn't a republican.

Fail.

i know that; why don't you know what I am referring to? not enough attention taxes to support your contention?

You're a popcorn fart.

 

[Care4all]

Pence did all the tax breaks on the state level as he is still governor. We don't know what Trump promised them.

If a US manufacturer wants tax breaks, just say you are moving your facility to Mexico.

What this entire deal is saying is that we should eliminate corporate income taxes. If we don't & offer the Carriers tax breaks, it will play in international markets as government helping Carrier to produce cheaper products. The same thing we accuse other countries of. These countries could slap a tariff on Carrier for that reason.

Carrier had tax incentives & used government money for training programs & had to pay back a couple million when they opted to move. What ever Trump & Pence have them must have been a whole lot more.

here is the beauty about other countries slapping a tariff on any U.S business that sells their products over seas.
The U.S is in a situation now where we import more than we export, if some pissant country wants to start playing the tariff game, who is in the best position to actually cause financial harm to the other? We need to flip that whole thing around anyway, its time that the U.S dollar stays in the U.S. We need to produce and use our own oil instead of sending billions to the middle east for theirs, we need to start making our own happy meal toys, our clothing our electronics, we need to put a stop to those filthy illegals sending what is estimated at 20 billion a year back to their home countries.
The U.S will not recover until we stop being nothing more than the international bank for the rest of the world
Basically, its our turn.

in our manufacturing heyday, it was a heyday because the US not only manufactured widgets for us, but for the rest of the world as well....there was no China manufacturing etc

 

[owebo]

Pence did all the tax breaks on the state level as he is still governor. We don't know what Trump promised them.

If a US manufacturer wants tax breaks, just say you are moving your facility to Mexico.

What this entire deal is saying is that we should eliminate corporate income taxes. If we don't & offer the Carriers tax breaks, it will play in international markets as government helping Carrier to produce cheaper products. The same thing we accuse other countries of. These countries could slap a tariff on Carrier for that reason.

Carrier had tax incentives & used government money for training programs & had to pay back a couple million when they opted to move. What ever Trump & Pence have them must have been a whole lot more.

here is the beauty about other countries slapping a tariff on any U.S business that sells their products over seas.
The U.S is in a situation now where we import more than we export, if some pissant country wants to start playing the tariff game, who is in the best position to actually cause financial harm to the other? We need to flip that whole thing around anyway, its time that the U.S dollar stays in the U.S. We need to produce and use our own oil instead of sending billions to the middle east for theirs, we need to start making our own happy meal toys, our clothing our electronics, we need to put a stop to those filthy illegals sending what is estimated at 20 billion a year back to their home countries.
The U.S will not recover until we stop being nothing more than the international bank for the rest of the world
Basically, its our turn.

in our manufacturing heyday, it was a heyday because the US not only manufactured widgets for us, but for the rest of the world as well....there was no China manufacturing etc

Did you have a point other than heyday? Looks like the best is yet to come in manufacturing here....

 

[danielpalos]

yet, the right doesn't mind being the international and exorbitantly expensive, superpower.

obama doubled the debt and added 10 trillion.

Fail.

we used to have massive federal budget surpluses, until the republicans got into office.

obama isn't a republican.

Fail.

i know that; why don't you know what I am referring to? not enough attention taxes to support your contention?

You're a popcorn fart.

just right wing forms of reasoning?

 

[rightwinger]

On the surface, I would have to congratulate Trump
He did what he said he would do

But until this becomes a trend, I can't be sure if it was just a stunt that will not be repeated or whether it is only a temporary reprieve for the workers

 

[LoneLaugher]

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/b...-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?_r=0

Abra Cadabra! Trump's magic is here! The Donald has convinced Carrier Heating and Air Conditioning to stay in the US!

Just think of the jobs that will be returning/staying once he is president. I would guess even Obama himself is impressed!

What did Carrier get to make that decision?

Trump's magic?

Just like you praised obozo for the low unemployment? Trump is already driving you insane huh?

Nope. I'm hopefulj that he can deliver at least as well.

 

[TNHarley]

Fourteen hundred people work at that plant and now their jobs are safe.

Leas than 1,000 of the jobs were saved.
The Right NEVER tells the whole truth!!!

Trump is gonna eat yo babiiiies!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Whoa! You sound like a guy who knows stuff! I'd better read your posts.

I'm sorry snowflake, have I triggered you?

You've said and done nothing. Maybe you want to outline the screwing that GM gave us?

And...that snowflake thing......it gives you away.

Net loss of 11 billion, what a deal.

Taxpayers Don't Have Government Motors To Kick Around Any More

From your link:

"A study released Monday by the Center for Automotive Research concluded that the government bailout of GM spared 1.2 million jobs in 2009 and preserved $39.4 billion in personal and social insurance tax collections in 2009 and 2010. “Any complete cost-benefit assessment of the federal assistance to GM in its restructuring must consider the total net returns to the public investment…” researchers Sean McAlinden and Debra Maranger Menk wrote in “The Effect on the U.S. Economy of the Successful Restructuring of General Motors.”"

You failed again. What a shock.

Whoa! You sound like a guy who knows stuff! I'd better read your posts.

I'm sorry snowflake, have I triggered you?

You've said and done nothing. Maybe you want to outline the screwing that GM gave us?

And...that snowflake thing......it gives you away.

Net loss of 11 billion, what a deal.

Taxpayers Don't Have Government Motors To Kick Around Any More

From your link:

"A study released Monday by the Center for Automotive Research concluded that the government bailout of GM spared 1.2 million jobs in 2009 and preserved $39.4 billion in personal and social insurance tax collections in 2009 and 2010. “Any complete cost-benefit assessment of the federal assistance to GM in its restructuring must consider the total net returns to the public investment…” researchers Sean McAlinden and Debra Maranger Menk wrote in “The Effect on the U.S. Economy of the Successful Restructuring of General Motors.”"

You failed again. What a shock.

So it's different when Trump intervenes to save jobs? How very hypocritical of you, what a shock.

We are all hypocrites. But, I am hoping Trump brings back manufacturing jobs. Very consistent.

 

[rightwinger]

Pence did all the tax breaks on the state level as he is still governor. We don't know what Trump promised them.

If a US manufacturer wants tax breaks, just say you are moving your facility to Mexico.

What this entire deal is saying is that we should eliminate corporate income taxes. If we don't & offer the Carriers tax breaks, it will play in international markets as government helping Carrier to produce cheaper products. The same thing we accuse other countries of. These countries could slap a tariff on Carrier for that reason.

Carrier had tax incentives & used government money for training programs & had to pay back a couple million when they opted to move. What ever Trump & Pence have them must have been a whole lot more.

here is the beauty about other countries slapping a tariff on any U.S business that sells their products over seas.
The U.S is in a situation now where we import more than we export, if some pissant country wants to start playing the tariff game, who is in the best position to actually cause financial harm to the other? We need to flip that whole thing around anyway, its time that the U.S dollar stays in the U.S. We need to produce and use our own oil instead of sending billions to the middle east for theirs, we need to start making our own happy meal toys, our clothing our electronics, we need to put a stop to those filthy illegals sending what is estimated at 20 billion a year back to their home countries.
The U.S will not recover until we stop being nothing more than the international bank for the rest of the world
Basically, its our turn.

in our manufacturing heyday, it was a heyday because the US not only manufactured widgets for us, but for the rest of the world as well....there was no China manufacturing etc

In our manufacturing heyday, we were the only post WWII economy prepared to ramp up production and sell to a global market destroyed by war. That heyday lasted until the 1970s when Germany, Japan and later S Korea returned to the market
With the emergence of China and India we have intense competition around the globe

We are no longer the only game in town. We can never return to the manufacturing base we had after the war

Trump claiming he can do it does not make it so

 

[danielpalos]

we need to increase the cost of US labor, so capitalists will seek gains from automation and machines, not John Henry.

 

[rightwinger]

we need to increase the cost of US labor, so capitalists will seek gains from automation and machines, not John Henry.

Wages have been stagnant for decades, yet, capitalists have still moved towards automation to replace workers.
They do it because it is cheaper than paying for workers and will continue to automate regardless of the wages workers agree to
John Henry's problem was not that he got paid too much

 

[danielpalos]

we need to increase the cost of US labor, so capitalists will seek gains from automation and machines, not John Henry.

Wages have been stagnant for decades, yet, capitalists have still moved towards automation to replace workers.
They do it because it is cheaper than paying for workers and will continue to automate regardless of the wages workers agree to
John Henry's problem was not that he got paid too much

some on the left believe in solving simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

 

[Skull Pilot]

we need to increase the cost of US labor, so capitalists will seek gains from automation and machines, not John Henry.

Wages have been stagnant for decades, yet, capitalists have still moved towards automation to replace workers.
They do it because it is cheaper than paying for workers and will continue to automate regardless of the wages workers agree to
John Henry's problem was not that he got paid too much

Wages in especially the lower paying sectors is stagnant because of technology.

What used to take very high skill levels and many hours to produce can now be done at the push of a button by a person with absolutely no skill whatsoever.
Now that's the bad news but the good news is that same tech has created far more jobs than those hurt by it

 

[Claudette]

we need to increase the cost of US labor, so capitalists will seek gains from automation and machines, not John Henry.

Wages have been stagnant for decades, yet, capitalists have still moved towards automation to replace workers.
They do it because it is cheaper than paying for workers and will continue to automate regardless of the wages workers agree to
John Henry's problem was not that he got paid too much

Wages in especially the lower paying sectors is stagnant because of technology.

What used to take very high skill levels and many hours to produce can now be done at the push of a button by a person with absolutely no skill whatsoever.
Now that's the bad news but the good news is that same tech has created far more jobs than those hurt by it

I agree. Technology has made progress by leaps and bounds.

I worked in the manufacturing sector and its been going since the 60's. I doubt it will be coming back but you never know.

 

[BlindBoo]

Aren't they still cutting a thousand US jobs?