Trump pulling out of Paris Climate Accord

[Derelict_Drvr]

I applaud his speech. Why let China get a free ride until 2030?

America first baby

-Geaux

How China is leading the world in solar energy production

Alt-Right didn't tell you this?

I noticed the article states China is (supposedly, it's Salon reporting after all) the leader in green energy "Production". If it says anything anything about China being a green energy "Technology Developer" I missed it.

As of 2016, the U.S. is the leader in green technology R&D.

 

[OldLady]

To get every country* in the world to agree that we should ALL clean up the environment for the planet's sake was a big accomplishment.

Still, only words. A non-binding agreement. Just talk is all it is. No accountability, no enforcement, no way to verify.

The U.S., the second largest polluter on the planet actually spearheaded the effort.

Then all the better that we step out of it! Still the same bad idea no matter, just another attempt to globalize socialize one-worldize our country.

The countries with economies large enough agreed to help out the countries that are still heating by campfire. This is the spirit of cooperation rarely if ever seen in the history of this planet before. Then, along comes Trump and says "I don't want to pay anything toward this" even though we are the #2 polluter--who cares? It's cheaper to pollute. Our coal miners need jobs. And just like that, we're out. And YOU are PROUD of that?

Yep! First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap, and if all the other countries still want to do it, NOTHING STOPPING THEM! JUST QUIT TRYING TO STICK ME WITH THE BILL! The US Taxpayer is SICK AND TIRED of carry the world on our shoulders. The Accord won't make a damn bit of an effect, it would cost us hugely, and besides, Trump made it clear he would be all open to it if it can be worked out different that we aren't screwed in the ass. DAMN PROUD TO HAVE A PRESIDENT stand up for me like that and take it in the chin because it was the right thing to do for the USA.

First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap,
I don't know where you've been that you DIDN'T know we were the #2 polluter. I've heard some places say we're #1, but I'll go with the EPA and what is said in my local paper this morning.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

Yes but is that adjusted for population???

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

 

[Markle]

So, you think man can spew all kinds of shit into our atmosphere & not change anything? Really?

NASA: "Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. "

Actually, the FACTS are easy to find. The AGW's just refuse to acknowledge them.

The Myth of the Climate Change '97%'

What is the origin of the false belief—constantly repeated—that almost all scientists agree about global warming?
By
JOSEPH BAST And
ROY SPENCER

May 26, 2014 7:34 pm

Last week Secretary of State John Kerry warned graduating students at Boston College of the "crippling consequences" of climate change. "Ninety-seven percent of the world's scientists," he added, "tell us this is urgent."

Where did Mr. Kerry get the 97% figure? Perhaps from his boss, President Obama, who tweeted on May 16 that "Ninety-seven percent of scientists agree: #climate change is real, man-made and dangerous." Or maybe from NASA, which posted (in more measured language) on its website, "Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities."

Yet the assertion that 97% of scientists believe that climate change is a man-made, urgent problem is a fiction. The so-called consensus comes from a handful of surveys and abstract-counting exercises that have been contradicted by more reliable research.

One frequently cited source for the consensus is a 2004 opinion essay published in Science magazine by Naomi Oreskes, a science historian now at Harvard. She claimed to have examined abstracts of 928 articles published in scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and found that 75% supported the view that human activities are responsible for most of the observed warming over the previous 50 years while none directly dissented.

Ms. Oreskes's definition of consensus covered "man-made" but left out "dangerous"—and scores of articles by prominent scientists such as Richard Lindzen, John Christy,Sherwood Idso and Patrick Michaels, who question the consensus, were excluded. The methodology is also flawed. A study published earlier this year in Nature noted that abstracts of academic papers often contain claims that aren't substantiated in the papers.

Read more at:
The Myth of the Climate Change '97%'

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Don't take my word for it---- go look it up and research it out. The Paris Accord is a scam to yet again like all other "deals" set forth in the past, just bilk more money out from the USA like a fat cow and put into the deep pockets of globalists! Want to know why people like Angela Merkel got that funny look on her face? Because for years AMERICAN POLITICIANS LIKE HILLARY CLINTON have been selling out their country for money, for a price, they will "cut you in." Now that Trump is here,. he IS NOT A PLAYER, he cannot be threatened or bribed.

ALL THESE OTHER COUNTRIES in EU and NATO, etc., PART OF THEIR ECONOMY IS LONG BEEN BASED ON SUCKING THE USA for MONEY!! Now that Trump is in, Merkel really meant it that for once, countries like Germany are really going to have to start carrying their own weight. And they are terrified.

Which is why they don't even want to hear anything about renegotiations. Like the UN, Trump will say America will do their part, but other countries have to do theirs. We will not do their part for them, and that's something they don't even want to discuss. They just want our money with a nice name like Paris Accord attached to it.

 

[Billy_Bob]

time to withdraw!

Ahhhh!!! That's where Rustic is getting it from!
Not true, though, that the US is alone in committing funds.
In announcing his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, President Trump also said the United States would stop contributing to the Green Climate Fund, a United Nations program that he claimed could eventually cost the country “billions and billions and billions” of dollars.

How much have rich countries pledged?
Industrialized countries have voluntarily pledged $10.3 billion since 2013 to help poorer nations reduce greenhouse gas emissions and address the effects of climate change. The United States has pledged by far the most — $3 billion, twice that of the second-largest pledger, Japan. But on a per-capita basis, many other countries have offered more than the United States. Swedes, for example, will contribute nearly $60 each.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/02/climate/trump-paris-green-climate-fund.html

you missed the word 'pledged'.. none of them have paid squat..

 

[Markle]

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

Your point being?

 

[OldLady]

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

Your point being?

Someone asked if the amount of greenhouse gasses per country had been adjusted for population. I fail to see how that matters when measuring a country's emissions overall.

 

[Rustic]

I believe I heard the ultimate goal was to slow anticipated global warming by 2 degrees. Not .2 degrees.

The maximum expected benefit would be 0.2 degrees, at the cost of trillions. Bad idea.

It is impossible to know what is correct, except that DAMMITALL, cleaning up the environment is a good thing

This wasted money would actual clean the environment. That's why it's so stupid.

The maximum expected benefit would be 0.2 degrees, at the cost of trillions. Bad idea.
Alright, but I need that link, please.

Alright, but I need that link, please

Sorry, I was way off.

The climate impact of all Paris INDC promises is minuscule: if we measure the impact of every nation fulfilling every promise by 2030, the total temperature reduction will be 0.048°C (0.086°F) by 2100.

• Even if we assume that these promises would be extended for another 70 years, there is still little impact: if every nation fulfills every promise by 2030, and continues to fulfill these promises faithfully until the end of the century, and there is no ‘CO₂ leakage’ to non-committed nations, the entirety of the Paris promises will reduce temperature rises by just 0.17°C (0.306°F) by 2100.

Paris climate promises will reduce temperatures by just 0.05°C in 2100 (Press release) | Bjorn Lomborg

Thank you. But the Agreement calls for countries to submit their specific plans by 2020. How did he do these projections when the countries haven't submitted their plans yet?

The climate accord would destroy small businesses in this country… Fact

WHY?

It would put unnecessary regulations that they could not afford their products.

 

[OldLady]

Some good plain old facts in this article from Politifact. No pants on fire lies from the President in his speech withdrawing from the deal. And the .2 degree reduction in global temps is true. However, Pres did cherry pick, as we all like to do, in making his argument. Here if anyone wants to take a look at it.

 

[Rustic]

time to withdraw!

Ahhhh!!! That's where Rustic is getting it from!
Not true, though, that the US is alone in committing funds.
In announcing his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, President Trump also said the United States would stop contributing to the Green Climate Fund, a United Nations program that he claimed could eventually cost the country “billions and billions and billions” of dollars.

How much have rich countries pledged?
Industrialized countries have voluntarily pledged $10.3 billion since 2013 to help poorer nations reduce greenhouse gas emissions and address the effects of climate change. The United States has pledged by far the most — $3 billion, twice that of the second-largest pledger, Japan. But on a per-capita basis, many other countries have offered more than the United States. Swedes, for example, will contribute nearly $60 each.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/02/climate/trump-paris-green-climate-fund.html

But no one's paid yet…

 

[OldLady]

The maximum expected benefit would be 0.2 degrees, at the cost of trillions. Bad idea.
Alright, but I need that link, please.

Alright, but I need that link, please

Sorry, I was way off.

The climate impact of all Paris INDC promises is minuscule: if we measure the impact of every nation fulfilling every promise by 2030, the total temperature reduction will be 0.048°C (0.086°F) by 2100.

• Even if we assume that these promises would be extended for another 70 years, there is still little impact: if every nation fulfills every promise by 2030, and continues to fulfill these promises faithfully until the end of the century, and there is no ‘CO₂ leakage’ to non-committed nations, the entirety of the Paris promises will reduce temperature rises by just 0.17°C (0.306°F) by 2100.

Paris climate promises will reduce temperatures by just 0.05°C in 2100 (Press release) | Bjorn Lomborg

Thank you. But the Agreement calls for countries to submit their specific plans by 2020. How did he do these projections when the countries haven't submitted their plans yet?

The climate accord would destroy small businesses in this country… Fact

WHY?

It would put unnecessary and regulations that they could not afford their products.

Well, don't worry about that now, Rustic. Pres is rolling back those pesky regulations as quick as he can. We may be choking in the fumes of noxious smog, but we'll be RICH!

 

[Rustic]

Here are some real facts on the Paris Accord, which aims at attacking carbon levels. First, CO2 is plant food, second, carbon is part of life, you, me, animals, plants, rocks, everything is MADE out of carbon. The Earth self-regulates the amount of carbon, storing the extra within.

The Paris Accord will reduce CO2 in the air? Do you know that 99.97% of the air you breath is NOT CO2? Just how do you reduce CO2 by 2/10th of a percent when it isn't even that much in TOTAL now? Ask an Accord Believer to explain that one? Just what is CO2 that just a TRACE of it (necessary to all life) could destroy our planet, but volcanoes and super-volcanoes do not???

For those who may not know, the atmosphere really is as follows:

78% Nitrogen
21% Oxygen (from Plants mainly, essential for the animal life)

_That is 99% of your total atmosphere right there!_

That only leaves 1% left, as a combination of /trace gases./

These trace gases can be further broken down into the Noble gases and IR
storing gases which help to moderate our climate.

Of that 1% trace gas left over, _9/10ths_ of that is ARGON, a harmless,
inert gas.

That leaves roughly 0.1%, or about 1/10th of 1/100th of the atmosphere
left.

The other remaining inert noble gases (combined total of 0.002% total
atmosphere) are Neon, Helium, Krypton, Xenon, and also Hydrogen.

Of the remaining (combined total less than 1/10th of 1%, or 000.098% of
the atmosphere) atmosphere left over, these are the IR storing
components, such as Water Vapor, Carbon Dioxide, Methane, Nitrous
Oxide and Ozone, /combined/.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

Don't take my word for it---- go look it up and research it out. The Paris Accord is a scam to yet again like all other "deals" set forth in the past, just bilk more money out from the USA like a fat cow and put into the deep pockets of globalists! Want to know why people like Angela Merkel got that funny look on her face? Because for years AMERICAN POLITICIANS LIKE HILLARY CLINTON have been selling out their country for money, for a price, they will "cut you in." Now that Trump is here,. he IS NOT A PLAYER, he cannot be threatened or bribed.

ALL THESE OTHER COUNTRIES in EU and NATO, etc., PART OF THEIR ECONOMY IS LONG BEEN BASED ON SUCKING THE USA for MONEY!! Now that Trump is in, Merkel really meant it that for once, countries like Germany are really going to have to start carrying their own weight. And they are terrified.

Imagine if Europe had to pay for their own decent military… If we were to drop out of being the world police what would they do?

 

[OldLady]

time to withdraw!

Ahhhh!!! That's where Rustic is getting it from!
Not true, though, that the US is alone in committing funds.
In announcing his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, President Trump also said the United States would stop contributing to the Green Climate Fund, a United Nations program that he claimed could eventually cost the country “billions and billions and billions” of dollars.

How much have rich countries pledged?
Industrialized countries have voluntarily pledged $10.3 billion since 2013 to help poorer nations reduce greenhouse gas emissions and address the effects of climate change. The United States has pledged by far the most — $3 billion, twice that of the second-largest pledger, Japan. But on a per-capita basis, many other countries have offered more than the United States. Swedes, for example, will contribute nearly $60 each.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/02/climate/trump-paris-green-climate-fund.html

But no one's paid yet…

Have we?
Don't matter now, right? We're out of it. We're too poor to be involved. Hey--with all this money Trump is saving us, maybe he can skip those cuts to Meals on Wheels and stuff!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The U S A was supposed to decrease hugely while other countries keep rolling right along for decades
America haters just lost big time

Move to Europe if they have it so much together the way you think

To be honest, I don't believe any of these posters here for the Accord are really that upset about the climate. It's been shown over and over again how for one, it would cost us a ton of money we don't have, and two, it wouldn't make all that much of a difference in the climate anyway.

What they are upset about is Trump slapping DumBama in the face. Obama was their Lord and Savior, and they worship the very ground he ever walked on. Any undoing of DumBama will be met with the very same response as the Accords.

 

[Rustic]

Alright, but I need that link, please

Sorry, I was way off.

The climate impact of all Paris INDC promises is minuscule: if we measure the impact of every nation fulfilling every promise by 2030, the total temperature reduction will be 0.048°C (0.086°F) by 2100.

• Even if we assume that these promises would be extended for another 70 years, there is still little impact: if every nation fulfills every promise by 2030, and continues to fulfill these promises faithfully until the end of the century, and there is no ‘CO₂ leakage’ to non-committed nations, the entirety of the Paris promises will reduce temperature rises by just 0.17°C (0.306°F) by 2100.

Paris climate promises will reduce temperatures by just 0.05°C in 2100 (Press release) | Bjorn Lomborg

Thank you. But the Agreement calls for countries to submit their specific plans by 2020. How did he do these projections when the countries haven't submitted their plans yet?

The climate accord would destroy small businesses in this country… Fact

WHY?

It would put unnecessary and regulations that they could not afford their products.

Well, don't worry about that now, Rustic. Pres is rolling back those pesky regulations as quick as he can. We may be choking in the fumes of noxious smog, but we'll be RICH!

Your hero Obama, tried to run us up here in the northern plains right out of the area with fucked up frivolous regulations. Although he has never stepped foot up here so he has no clue what's best for this area - good riddance to the shit stain.

 

[Rustic]

time to withdraw!

Ahhhh!!! That's where Rustic is getting it from!
Not true, though, that the US is alone in committing funds.
In announcing his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, President Trump also said the United States would stop contributing to the Green Climate Fund, a United Nations program that he claimed could eventually cost the country “billions and billions and billions” of dollars.

How much have rich countries pledged?
Industrialized countries have voluntarily pledged $10.3 billion since 2013 to help poorer nations reduce greenhouse gas emissions and address the effects of climate change. The United States has pledged by far the most — $3 billion, twice that of the second-largest pledger, Japan. But on a per-capita basis, many other countries have offered more than the United States. Swedes, for example, will contribute nearly $60 each.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/02/climate/trump-paris-green-climate-fund.html

But no one's paid yet…

Have we?
Don't matter now, right? We're out of it. We're too poor to be involved. Hey--with all this money Trump is saving us, maybe he can skip those cuts to Meals on Wheels and stuff!

We can't spend on something that gives us nothing back, the federal government does that for too much.

 

[Rustic]

The U S A was supposed to decrease hugely while other countries keep rolling right along for decades
America haters just lost big time

Move to Europe if they have it so much together the way you think

To be honest, I don't believe any of these posters here for the Accord are really that upset about the climate. It's been shown over and over again how for one, it would cost us a ton of money we don't have, and two, it wouldn't make all that much of a difference in the climate anyway.

What they are upset about is Trump slapping DumBama in the face. Obama was their Lord and Savior, and they worship the very ground he ever walked on. Any undoing of DumBama will be met with the very same response as the Accords.

It all comes back to them being control freaks... they can't tolerate anyone that disagrees with them.

 

[Rustic]

To get every country* in the world to agree that we should ALL clean up the environment for the planet's sake was a big accomplishment.

Still, only words. A non-binding agreement. Just talk is all it is. No accountability, no enforcement, no way to verify.

The U.S., the second largest polluter on the planet actually spearheaded the effort.

Then all the better that we step out of it! Still the same bad idea no matter, just another attempt to globalize socialize one-worldize our country.

The countries with economies large enough agreed to help out the countries that are still heating by campfire. This is the spirit of cooperation rarely if ever seen in the history of this planet before. Then, along comes Trump and says "I don't want to pay anything toward this" even though we are the #2 polluter--who cares? It's cheaper to pollute. Our coal miners need jobs. And just like that, we're out. And YOU are PROUD of that?

Yep! First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap, and if all the other countries still want to do it, NOTHING STOPPING THEM! JUST QUIT TRYING TO STICK ME WITH THE BILL! The US Taxpayer is SICK AND TIRED of carry the world on our shoulders. The Accord won't make a damn bit of an effect, it would cost us hugely, and besides, Trump made it clear he would be all open to it if it can be worked out different that we aren't screwed in the ass. DAMN PROUD TO HAVE A PRESIDENT stand up for me like that and take it in the chin because it was the right thing to do for the USA.

First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap,
I don't know where you've been that you DIDN'T know we were the #2 polluter. I've heard some places say we're #1, but I'll go with the EPA and what is said in my local paper this morning.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

Yes but is that adjusted for population???

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

You really should stop believing in fairy tales… Polar bears are not drowning

 

[Rustic]

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

Your point being?

Someone asked if the amount of greenhouse gasses per country had been adjusted for population. I fail to see how that matters when measuring a country's emissions overall.

Fossil fuels generally come from rural areas, where the air is clean and your pantries are filled. You green freaks should walk your talk by not burning any fossil fuels yourselves. And quit being fucked up control freaks telling other people what to think.

 

[OldLady]

Okay. You guys have given your pitch, and now you're out of ammunition so you're going into stupid mode.
Good discussion anyway. I learned some stuff. I still think it was goddamned stupid to pull out of the deal, but I understand a bit more about how the agreement worked. All moot now.