Trump & Jerusalem: Why is this necessary?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

U.S. government recognition of Jerusalem as capital

Pro's for America = We get nothing, nada, zip

Con's for America = 1.5 billion people PO'ed at us

Why are they PO'ed at us? They know Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and have for decades I hope.

 

[Sunni Man]

Why are they PO'ed at us? They know Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and have for decades I hope.

Incorrect

It will never be accepted. ....

 

[flacaltenn]

U.S. government recognition of Jerusalem as capital

Pro's for America = We get nothing, nada, zip

Con's for America = 1.5 billion people PO'ed at us

Unless it leads to the getting the Palestinians to appoint leadership and negotiate NOW. They hit a high point in "self-governance" peak about 2004(5) when the PA negotiated with Israel for Gaza. Israel dragged EVERYTHING JEWISH or ISRAELI out of Gaza and turned it over with promises of "normalized" relations.

Within a YEAR -- the Pali Authority was in Civil War on the streets of Gaza/West Bank FIGHTING for control. And then the PA just disappeared.

You can't negotiate for self-government with no elected representation. Balls are all in their court. Either step up to "self-governance" that lasts or the solution needs to be a Mandate for "new Palestine" imposed on them and administered by the "neighbors" in the area --- as I said above..

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Blah blah blah "I hatez teh joooooooos!!!' blah blah blah.

Go tweak a crematorium you nazi hack.

Call me anti semite, who in the hell cares, it means nothing.

Much like any of your posts.

Read my lips, I do not care. I agree with many Jews, not the zealot ones.

you don't need to be a zealot to know that you can only object to the existence of Israel or try to de-legitimize jews if you're an anti-semite.

just the way it is.

Call me names, I'm sure hurt, NOT. The jews in Israel are killing and stealing. I do not care about them just because they are part of the bible. I am not an evan.

Who are they killing? You seem to be just as misinformed on this topic as any other. Were you born stupid or have you been practicing after hours?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why are they PO'ed at us? They know Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and have for decades I hope.

Incorrect

It will never be accepted. ....

The general consensus is that the Arabs will officially fuss and fume a little, but they really don't give a shit as to where the US Embassy is located. It is all for public consumption and really means nothing to them.

 

[jillian]

That’s why I used quotes. Palestinians were simply defeated and too weak to hold the lands they are claiming. Yet for some reason we are all supposed to feel sorry for this one tribe that was beaten, above all others that have been conquered throughout human history.

I know... I was merely supporting with data.

I used to have sympathy for them. then I saw Nightline...which did a week long series of discussions on the Israel-pal issue. they had panelists from both sides. the Israelis kept talking about compromise and living together. the pals said Israel didn't even have riparian rights and should be destroyed. not a single pal talked about living together. and they teach their kids to hate with a terrorists Mickey Mouse. When they were offered 98% of what they were demanding and Arafat said he couldn't take the deal or he'd "be drinking tea with Rabin".

so at some point, you can't have sympathy for people who lost despite support from every Arab nation....and refuse to want peace. nothing has changed since Golda Meir ... and pals still hate Israel more than they love their children.

which still doesn't mean this is being done properly.

What is the proper way? To continue to bow and grovel to Muslim demands? You are contradicting yourself. You admit these Muslim dogs have no intentions of peace, yet think they should be coddled. If your beloved Hussein had the balls to do this, you’d be cheering it. But because it is President Trump, you have to automatically oppose it.

you aren't talking to someone who really gives a flying about pal sensibilities. but this guy doesn't have a clue....and has created a dangerous situation. you don't change generations old policy on a whim.

maybe if we still had a state department there would have been smarter ways to do this. (and understand that in principle I always question why Israel is the only country in the world that won multiple wars defending its land and still has its sovereignty questioned).

There is no “smarter way” of doing it. We either recognize Israel and it’s capital, or we don’t. Someone has to stand up to Islamic intimidation, and President Trump is that person. How good was Middle East peace during Bush and Obama? Did not recognizing it help keep Muslims stable and peaceful? Of course not.

We recognize Israel, and its capital Tel Aviv, we give what 4.8 billion a year to them.

how many billions have been given to the terrorist supporting pals?

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

and hint: instead of the terrorists of Hamas building infrastructure and government and taking care of their people, they use it for missiles.

and let's not forget all the billions that suha Arafat put into her French bank account.

 

[Flash]

Why is necessary? Two words - Deus Vult

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It solidifies our relationship with Israel. Unlike the last president, he is showing a commitment to them.

So - and this is a serious question - after any number of people die and suffer in the terrorist attacks this specific move causes, it will be okay to say, "well, we were able to solidify our relationship with Israel, so these are worth it"?
.

given that iran and others want to nuke israel off the map, does it make a difference what you to save a hundred lives when people are threatening them all?

....and would Muslim leaders really destroy the entire Middle East because Mohmed dreamed he went to Jerusalem?

I respect Arabs, but in their culture pressing claims as a buffer against their opponents going for the real interests you care about is a common and respected tactic.

Besides, Trump being a good and successful bidnessman, he has likely polled all the major players he gives a flying fart about behind the scenes already.

That might be why the Saudi Crown Prince has cleaned house in Arabia.

How many times has trump declared bankruptcy. SA is anti this move.

None. Have a nice day!

 

[jillian]

Why is necessary? Two words - Deus Vult

cause what we need is another crusade by crazy religious zealots

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

clearly in the questions i have asked i don't know enough and clearly i simply don't agree with your assessment in "Death or More Death".

Subscribe to read
2015 is one of the most violent times in the region it would seem.

2013 they felt it couldn't get worse and yet, it did.

end of the above article:
“The conditions under which 2014 developed did not change,” Ms Scheller said. “The less governance there is, the more chaos and devastation and the less prospect for any settlement that will lead to quick results.”

so are we establishing MORE governance there by doing this? from this article it would be what is needed to calm down the violence.

you continue to say that doing this will cause there to be MORE violence and i don't disagree at all. AT ALL.

but i do ask *WHEN* would be a good time to do this and there simply is no answer. not from you or me or anyone that i can find. there is clearly a stall by the arab states to NOT make this decision and NOT promote peace and there is nothing on the horizon that will bring them to the table to talk and end this.

NOTHING.

so - i ask again *when* would there be a good time to do this? if your stance is *never do it, people will get hurt* great. say so. i disagree but would respect your views.

I have no idea when the best time for this would be. None. The question posed in the thread is, "Why is this necessary?", not "when should this be done?".

So, if we have no choice but to do this, and it must be done right now, and we see net positive coming from it, then it must be done, right now. I just don't see that as the situation.

Since this was not a burning issue a few days ago, I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if this is more political than altruistic.
.

i'm not saying *NOW* is the right time to do it. i'm asking for a better time.

if there will *never* be a good or better time for it then the choice is do it or drop it completely.

or - keep waiting for a time that will never come.

trump made it a promise to end the wait and he's keeping that promise. i can certainly understand the apprehension that it will not stop the violence in the middle east but nothing will. you can either deal with it as a part of life to move ahead or deal with it it in fear and cower, waiting for a time that will never come.

that just seems to sum it up to me but i'm still trying to learn all i can about it. that's all.

Well, then do it now and buckle up. I hope it will have been worth it.
.

like anything will be to some, not to others. queue the additional fighting.

I think you meant "cue".

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

For the last time, Palestinians want peace.

They want a piece of Jerusalem, a piece of Nazareth, a piece of Bethlehem, ................

They have all of Bethlehem. It is in the West Bank.

 

[Borillar]

You don't do the right thing because it is easy

You do the right thing because it is the right thing to do

This has been promised to jews for a long time and Trump is the first POTUS with the balls to do it.

Who promised what to the Jews?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Who in the hell promised them??

Clinton got it started back in the 90s.

Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995

The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995[1] is a public law of the United States passed by the 104th Congress on October 23, 1995. It was passed for the purposes of initiating and funding the relocation of the Embassy of the United States in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, no later than May 31, 1999, and attempted to withhold 50 percent of the funds appropriated to the State Department specifically for "Acquisition and Maintenance of Buildings Abroad" as allocated in fiscal year 1999 until the United States Embassy in Jerusalem had officially opened.[2] The act also called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city and for it to be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel. Israel's declared capital is Jerusalem, but this is not internationally recognized, pending final status talks in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The United States has withheld recognition of the city as Israel's capital. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[3] and the House (374–37).[4]

Since passage, the law has never been implemented

Very good. I was wondering why nobody remembered that. They did back off a little bit after the congress passed it bu tthey put a loophole in there at the time that said that if it wasn't certified every 6 months there would be a 6 month delay. But they've been doing that ever since. They've just recertifying it every 6 months since then.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That’s why I used quotes. Palestinians were simply defeated and too weak to hold the lands they are claiming. Yet for some reason we are all supposed to feel sorry for this one tribe that was beaten, above all others that have been conquered throughout human history.

I know... I was merely supporting with data.

I used to have sympathy for them. then I saw Nightline...which did a week long series of discussions on the Israel-pal issue. they had panelists from both sides. the Israelis kept talking about compromise and living together. the pals said Israel didn't even have riparian rights and should be destroyed. not a single pal talked about living together. and they teach their kids to hate with a terrorists Mickey Mouse. When they were offered 98% of what they were demanding and Arafat said he couldn't take the deal or he'd "be drinking tea with Rabin".

so at some point, you can't have sympathy for people who lost despite support from every Arab nation....and refuse to want peace. nothing has changed since Golda Meir ... and pals still hate Israel more than they love their children.

which still doesn't mean this is being done properly.

What is the proper way? To continue to bow and grovel to Muslim demands? You are contradicting yourself. You admit these Muslim dogs have no intentions of peace, yet think they should be coddled. If your beloved Hussein had the balls to do this, you’d be cheering it. But because it is President Trump, you have to automatically oppose it.

you aren't talking to someone who really gives a flying about pal sensibilities. but this guy doesn't have a clue....and has created a dangerous situation. you don't change generations old policy on a whim.

maybe if we still had a state department there would have been smarter ways to do this. (and understand that in principle I always question why Israel is the only country in the world that won multiple wars defending its land and still has its sovereignty questioned).

There is no “smarter way” of doing it. We either recognize Israel and it’s capital, or we don’t. Someone has to stand up to Islamic intimidation, and President Trump is that person. How good was Middle East peace during Bush and Obama? Did not recognizing it help keep Muslims stable and peaceful? Of course not.

We recognize Israel, and its capital Tel Aviv, we give what 4.8 billion a year to them.

Israel's capital is Jerusalem. I have been there. Have you?

 

[Sunni Man]

The U.S. government has just reinforced this verse form the Quran, and all Muslims should harken to it's sage advice. ....

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

 

[jillian]

Perhaps Christians should have Israel, we use to control it.

yes, heaven forbid there be one jewish state among the dozen of muslim ones.

 

[jillian]

The U.S. government has just reinforced this verse form the Quran, and all Muslims should harken to it's sage advice. ....

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

you mean muslims don't get to run a jewish country? no, they don't.

 

[PredFan]

It solidifies our relationship with Israel. Unlike the last president, he is showing a commitment to them.

So - and this is a serious question - after any number of people die and suffer in the terrorist attacks this specific move causes, it will be okay to say, "well, we were able to solidify our relationship with Israel, so these are worth it"?
.

So, we are suppose to make policy in the US based on not pissing off terrorists?

 

[Natural Citizen]

how many billions have been given to the terrorist supporting pals?

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

and hint: instead of the terrorists of Hamas building infrastructure and government and taking care of their people, they use it for missiles.

and let's not forget all the billions that suha Arafat put into her French bank account.

As a general reminder, Israel created Hamas to counteract Arafat.

 

[Penelope]

Perhaps Christians should have Israel, we use to control it.

yes, heaven forbid there be one jewish state among the dozen of muslim ones.

Why not go an live in Jerusalem. Let us Christians have our own country.