Trump Is Overturning the World Order That America Built

[TimFitz]

Change isn’t always bad

Empty assertion.

 

[jknowgood]

So when did we declare a state of war against Russia?

Did I miss that or something?

When Putin told Obama to kiss his ass, after Obama told him to wait till after the election. So he could sell us out better. The loons loved Putin, till that moment.

 

[jknowgood]

Empty assertion.

Isn't that what Obama ran on?

 

[CosmicRocker]

Europe has to raise it's own defenses, and not just rely on NATO.. Most of these countries rely on US bases. we cant afford to be worlds cop anymore. They can decide if Rusia is a threat enough to pay for EU army or not. I think NATO is enough, but if we pull out bases, then Europe either is OK with that or they conscript their own army

 

[TimFitz]

Trump isn't overturning anything, he is getting the EU to spend 3% on defense, like we are.

Trump has been attacking NATO and kissing Putin’s ass since 2015.

He took Putin’s side in front of them in Helsinki. The whole world noticed.

His bullying about defense spending by NATO countries met with some success. But Trump continues to publicly claim that NATO owes us something. He seems to think like a gangster, treating alliances as if he was running a protection racket.

He endorsed the Russian invasion of Ukraine, to the horror of the entire western world.

Now, in the face of Trump’s retreat from world leadership, NATO members ARE increasing their military spending, not in response to Trump’s jingoistic bullying, but in response to Trump’s retreat and his open support for the Russian invasion and the Russian dictator.

You appear to be naive or blind enough to believe that there are no long term consequences ,so Trump can continue insulting and bullying our Allie’s, while openly siding with the dictator who launched the biggest war since 1945.

This is what you support.

Trump is undermining NATO at every turn. He is driving deep wedges of division and retreat from American leadership throughout the world.

The US has a golden opportunity to support Ukraine, and end Russia’s role as a global superpower.

Instead, Trump is squandering the opportunity and retreating before Putin and doing his bidding. Enabling the ascent of a new Russian empire.

Dividing NATO from the US has beeen a Russian foreign policy goal since 1949,

Trump is delivering it to Putin on a silver tray.

You support that too.

Beijing is watching. So are Tokyo and Taiwan.

 

[kyzr]

Trump has been attacking NATO and kissing Putin’s ass since 2015. He took Putin’s side in front of them in Helsinki. The whole world noticed.
His bullying about defense spending by NATO countries met with some success. But Trump continues to publicly claim that NATO owes us something. He seems to think like a gangster, treating alliances as if he was running a protection racket.

Trump claims that NATO members need to meet their financial commitments before we meet our Article-5 commitments.

He endorsed the Russian invasion of Ukraine, to the horror of the entire western world.
Now, in the face of Trump’s retreat from world leadership, NATO members ARE increasing their military spending, not in response to Trump’s jingoistic bullying, but in response to Trump’s retreat and his open support for the Russian invasion and the Russian dictator.

He did not endorse Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Trump gave Ukraine Javelin anti-tank missiles when Obama only gave them MREs and blankets. Trump finally got EU countries to meet their commitments, and stop taking advantage of the US military.

You appear to be naive or blind enough to believe that there are no long term consequences, so Trump can continue insulting and bullying our Allies, while openly siding with the dictator who launched the biggest war since 1945. This is what you support.
Trump is undermining NATO at every turn. He is driving deep wedges of division and retreat from American leadership throughout the world.

Trump had a peace deal lined up and Zelensky fucked it up. The US spends 3.3% of GDP on defense, its about fucking time EU countries match us.

The US has a golden opportunity to support Ukraine, and end Russia’s role as a global superpower.
Instead, Trump is squandering the opportunity and retreating before Putin and doing his bidding. Enabling the ascent of a new Russian empire.

Zelensky walked away from the mineral rights deal

Dividing NATO from the US has been a Russian foreign policy goal since 1949,
Trump is delivering it to Putin on a silver tray. You support that too.

You can say dividing NATO, Stoltenberg would say Trump is strengthening NATO

Beijing is watching. So are Tokyo and Taiwan.

Good.

 

[TimFitz]

Progressives never accept reasons for anything that does not jive with the Progressive Socialist Party Cult. The real cult. You can see it with the money hidden in our corrupted government.

Cultist projecting again. How lame.

 

[whitehall]

If America built the current world order we did a poor job of it. Democrat icon FDR created the "Iron Curtain" that the world lived with for half a century. LBJ created the mess in Vietnam and Biden's incoherent foreign policy enriched enemies of the United States.

 

[TimFitz]

Trump claims that NATO members need to meet their financial commitments before we meet our Article-5 commitments.

This is not about NATO defense spending. It is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Trump’s open attempts to weaken Ukraine and deliver it to Moscow..

He did not endorse Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Trump gave Ukraine Javelin anti-tank missiles when Obama only gave them MREs and blankets. Trump finally got EU countries to meet their commitments, and stop taking advantage of the US military.

Yes, he did.

Trump calls Putin 'genius' and 'savvy' for Ukraine invasion

The former president's praise for Putin comes at a perilous geopolitical moment in Europe.

www.politico.com

The very Javelin missiles Trump bragged about were in the package Trump held up for nearly a year, before trying a crude blackmail scheme on Zelinsky.

NSTO members have provided far more support for Ukraine than the US has.

Trump had a peace deal lined up and Zelensky fucked it up. The US spends 3.3% of GDP on defense, its about fucking time EU countries match us.

This is entirely false.

Indeed Trump’s envoys were told the Russians were not interested in a peace deal before they went to the staged show in Saudi Arabia.

Putin ‘Not Interested' in Peace Deal, Trump Envoy Sidelined in Talks, Saudi Wanted Ukraine Presence - News18

As US and Russia hold talks on ending the Ukraine war, intelligence from US and close allies shows that Putin still wants to control all of Ukraine. “We have zero intelligence that Putin is interested in a real peace deal right now,” a US congressional official told NBC news.Putin is sending...

www.news18.com

Rubio arrived in Saudi Arabia empty handed.

The Trump “peacekeeping effort fell flat in Moscow. The Kremlin probably instructed the Americans on which ways to pressure and isolate Ukraine for Putin’s benefit.

Which is what zTrump is doing.

Zelensky walked away from the mineral rights deal

Trump tried to shove a “deal” in which Ukraine surrendered mineral rights to American companies and pay $500 million. Trump offered Zelinsky nothing in return for this deal. Zelinsky negotiated the blackmail way down and Trump indicated there would be an agreement.

Then, on the 28th, Vance and Trump sandbagged Zelinsky on live global television. They blew off their own deal. And Trump praised Putin (again) in the bargain.

You can say dividing NATO, Stoltenberg would say Trump is strengthening NATO

No, he would not.

Anyway, he is the Finance Minister of Norway.

Good.

 

[eagle1462010]

Just like clockwork, Trump's cult defends Putin and Russia............AGAIN.

I wouldnt piss on Russia if they were on fire, but im not a willing throw money at Ukraine we have to borrow to give.

That IS NOT IN OUR SELF INTEREST.

Europe needs to.

 

[kyzr]

This is not about NATO defense spending. It is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Trump’s open attempts to weaken Ukraine and deliver it to Moscow..

You said "Trump has been attacking NATO and kissing Putin’s ass since 2015."
I said "Trump said that NATO members need to meet their commitments before Trump commits to Article-5. When Stoltenberg was NATO secretary he said Trump "strengthened NATO".

'Trump is having an impact': NATO head credits president's tough talk for $100B boost

Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary general, said Trump is helping the alliance adapt to "a more unpredictable world."

www.usatoday.com

Now you're saying its about Russia's invasion of Ukraine and that Trump is weakening Ukraine to deliver it to Moscow. The truth is that Trump had a deal arranged to get US miners into Ukraine protected by the US military, and Zelensky walked away from it.

Yes, he did.

From your link:
"He (Putin) used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.”
Trump was not endorsing Putin capturing Ukraine.

The very Javelin missiles Trump bragged about were in the package Trump held up for nearly a year, before trying a crude blackmail scheme on Zelinsky.

Wrong. The $39m Javelins went thru. The $400m package was delayed, but was released on time.

Trump admin approves new sale of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine

The Trump administration has approved the $39M sale of defensive lethal weapons to Ukraine, according to two U.S. officials and another source familiar with the plan.

abcnews.go.com

NATO members have provided far more support for Ukraine than the US has.

EU Assistance to Ukraine (in U.S. Dollars)

Last updated April 9, 2025. To view a PDF version, please click here. The European Union (EU) and our 27 Member States remain united and determined in our unprecedented support for Ukraine. Since the start of the war, the EU and our Member States have made available close to $155 billion* in...

www.eeas.europa.eu

The EU gave $100b in aid and $45b in loans
The US gave $175b in aid, so the US gave $75b more.
So you are wrong again.

This is entirely false. Indeed Trump’s envoys were told the Russians were not interested in a peace deal before they went to the staged show in Saudi Arabia. Rubio arrived in Saudi Arabia empty handed.
The Trump “peacekeeping effort fell flat in Moscow. The Kremlin probably instructed the Americans on which ways to pressure and isolate Ukraine for Putin’s benefit. Which is what Trump is doing.
Trump tried to shove a “deal” in which Ukraine surrendered mineral rights to American companies and pay $500 million. Trump offered Zelinsky nothing in return for this deal. Zelinsky negotiated the blackmail way down and Trump indicated there would be an agreement. Then, on the 28th, Vance and Trump sandbagged Zelinsky on live global television. They blew off their own deal. And Trump praised Putin (again) in the bargain.

The outline of the "peace deal" in Ukraine was that the US would negotiate a ceasefire and boundaries, the EU would send in "peacekeepers", the US would send in miners to mine the rare metals and share the profits with Ukraine to rebuild, and the miners would be protected by the US military. Apparently Zelensky talked to democrats who advised Zelensky to insist on US "security guarantees" which killed the deal. Putin could never accept US troops or NATO troops in Ukraine, making Ukraine a defacto NATO member. Keeping Ukraine independent is as good a deal as we can get while Putin is still alive.
So take the deal, or the EU can keep sending money and military aid to Ukraine, at least until they run out of soldiers.

 

[TimFitz]

You said "Trump has been attacking NATO and kissing Putin’s ass since 2015."
I said "Trump said that NATO members need to meet their commitments before Trump commits to Article-5. When Stoltenberg was NATO secretary he said Trump "strengthened NATO".

'Trump is having an impact': NATO head credits president's tough talk for $100B boost

Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary general, said Trump is helping the alliance adapt to "a more unpredictable world."

www.usatoday.com

he was pandering to Trump, hoping that a little flattery might set back Trump’s plans to betray aukraine to the Russians,

Now you're saying it’s about Russia's invasion of Ukraine and that Trump is weakening Ukraine to deliver it to Moscow. The truth is that Trump had a deal arranged to get US miners into Ukraine protected by the US military, and Zelensky walked away from it.

This is entirely false. There was. NO commitment that US military would “protect American miners”. Trump promised absolutely nothing. The world knows that too.

From your link:
"He (Putin) used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.”
Trump was not endorsing Putin capturing Ukraine.

In the same article, Trump called the invasion a “genius move”. Thw whole world knows this, even if you pretend you don’t.

Wrong. The $39m Javelins went thru. The $400m package was delayed, but was released on time.

Trump admin approves new sale of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine

The Trump administration has approved the $39M sale of defensive lethal weapons to Ukraine, according to two U.S. officials and another source familiar with the plan.

abcnews.go.com

EU Assistance to Ukraine (in U.S. Dollars)

Last updated April 9, 2025. To view a PDF version, please click here. The European Union (EU) and our 27 Member States remain united and determined in our unprecedented support for Ukraine. Since the start of the war, the EU and our Member States have made available close to $155 billion* in...

www.eeas.europa.eu

The EU gave $100b in aid and $45b in loans
The US gave $175b in aid, so the US gave $75b more.
So you are wrong again.

The outline of the "peace deal" in Ukraine was that the US would negotiate a ceasefire and boundaries, the EU would send in "peacekeepers", the US would send in miners to mine the rare metals and share the profits with Ukraine to rebuild, and the miners would be protected by the US military. Apparently Zelensky talked to democrats who advised Zelensky to insist on US "security guarantees" which killed the deal. Putin could never accept US troops or NATO troops in Ukraine, making Ukraine a defacto NATO member. Keeping Ukraine independent is as good a deal as we can get while Putin is still alive.
So take the deal, or the EU can keep sending money and military aid to Ukraine, at least until they run out of soldiers.

You made most of this up.

Whatever made Trump think he could play Neville Chamberlain, and hand Ukraine to Moscow on a plate. He excluded Ukraine from the start and only deals with the Russians.

Whatever made Trump think that he could dictate EU supplied peacekeepers without talking to them.

This BS about “Democrats” “advising” Zelinsky demanding security guarantees is a right wing lie. It came from X, the land of a Russian trolls, crackpots and political operators peddling Trump talking points. It is a lie.

Ukraine is a free and independent nation. Dispite what Putin and his stooge aTrump think.

It will decide its own future. Trump will twist in the wind with his phony “peacekeeper BS”

Meanwhile he will continue to do Putin’s bidding.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

I wouldnt piss on Russia if they were on fire, but im not a willing throw money at Ukraine we have to borrow to give.

Trump and his cult sure don't have that attitude towards Israel.
Why is that?
And we have been borrowing $$$ for them, for decades.

That IS NOT IN OUR SELF INTEREST.

Israel is?

Europe needs to.

They will.

 

[22lcidw]

Cultist projecting again. How lame.

Always with the Saul Alinsky/Cloward-Piven retorts while people become poorer in real terms. That inflation is real. And we are not a rising nation anymore.

 

[eagle1462010]

Trump and his cult sure don't have that attitude towards Israel.
Why is that?
And we have been borrowing $$$ for them, for decades.

Israel is?

They will.

About fucking time

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

About fucking time

BS.

Countries That Have Committed the Most Aid to Ukraine​

U.S. News & World Report
https://www.usnews.com › News › Best Countries
The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $124 billion in aid to Ukraine. The types of aid committed vary by country.

The majority of committed support by country has come from the United States, whose total aid commitment is valued at about $128 billion. The U.S. is followed by the United Kingdom and Germany for highest commitments overall. The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $124 billion in aid to Ukraine.

 

[eagle1462010]

BS.

Countries That Have Committed the Most Aid to Ukraine​

View attachment 1087969
U.S. News & World Report
https://www.usnews.com › News › Best Countries




The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $124 billion in aid to Ukraine. The types of aid committed vary by country. The U.S. is flexing its ...

Countries That Have Committed the Most Aid to Ukraine​

View attachment 1087970
U.S. News & World Report
https://www.usnews.com › News › Best Countries
The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $124 billion in aid to Ukraine. The types of aid committed vary by country.

The majority of committed support by country has come from the United States, whose total aid commitment is valued at about $128 billion. The U.S. is followed by the United Kingdom and Germany for highest commitments overall. The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $124 billion in aid to Ukraine.

Most never honored the 2%. Especially Germany. Leaching off us for their security, and demanding we go in to face the bear and a possible Nuclear War.

You want WWIII, be my guest. Go in and kill the bear

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Most never honored the 2%. Especially Germany.

BS.

Who's at 2 percent? Look how NATO allies have increased ...​

Atlantic Council
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org › blogs › econographics
As the NATO Summit gets underway in Washington, 23 of 32 allies now meet the defense spending target of 2 percent of GDP.

Leaching off us for their security, and demanding we go in to face the bear and a possible Nuclear War.

We also have a US airbase in Germany. (Ramstein)

You want WWIII, be my guest. Go in and kill the bear

Better to appease them, like Trump.

 

[kyzr]

he was pandering to Trump, hoping that a little flattery might set back Trump’s plans to betray Ukraine to the Russians,

NATO was strengthened by Trump to the tune of $100b more military spending, that is a FACT. Read the article.

This is entirely false. There was. NO commitment that US military would “protect American miners”. Trump promised absolutely nothing. The world knows that too.

Americans are protected by the US military, period, full stop.

In the same article, Trump called the invasion a “genius move”. The whole world knows this, even if you pretend you don’t.

That may have been when the world thought that Russia would capture Ukraine in 3-days. That would have been a "genius move", as it turns out, Russia is still fighting 3-years later and Trump is working to end the war instead of wasting more money on it.

You made most of this up.
Whatever made Trump think he could play Neville Chamberlain, and hand Ukraine to Moscow on a plate. He excluded Ukraine from the start and only deals with the Russians.
Whatever made Trump think that he could dictate EU supplied peacekeepers without talking to them.

Nonsense. LIAR. Trump had a deal lined up to save Ukraine and Zelensky walked away from it, at the White House.
LIAR. The EU committed peacekeepers.

Human shield. Can European peacekeepers ensure security in Ukraine?

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

This BS about “Democrats” “advising” Zelinsky demanding security guarantees is a right wing lie. It came from X, the land of a Russian trolls, crackpots and political operators peddling Trump talking points. It is a lie.

You type LIES. Here is the TRUTH.

Disaster in the Oval Office: Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn).

nypost.com

Ukraine is a free and independent nation. Despite what Putin and his stooge Trump think.
It will decide its own future. Trump will twist in the wind with his phony “peacekeeper BS”. Meanwhile he will continue to do Putin’s bidding.

The longer the war goes on the less independent Ukraine gets. Zelensky needs to take Trump's peace deal or watch Russia capture Ukraine, what's left of it.

 

[luiza]

That world order was promoting democracy and defending our democratic allies against fascist authoritarian thugs such as Putin.

We remember those horrible cold War times where the US Terrorist State placed over 750 missions and bases world wide .
And how many thousands (?) of Bio Labs ?

The bullies and despots who invaded countries and got others to do their bidding .
Killing millions .

Every country hated the US then?
Has anything changed in this Land of Fat People who are so violent that they seem like a mutated Variation of Homo Sapiens ?

Let's have some Truth Troll Bot , Celia .