Trump can't secure the $454 million bond

[Dante]

Its an 8th Amendment case. A very good one in fact. They didnt like his appraisal so they fined him more money than any company or individual in history? You can act like thats fair, but its not.

The way the penalty (minus the interest) was arrived at was not at all unusual. What was unusual is listed in the ruling -- which people like you constantly ignore. You're a dupe, making political arguments that fail in courts.

 

[Zincwarrior]

It's very possible this case will make it to the SCOTUS. It has to go through the Appellate Dept and NY Court of Appeals first, but if Trump does not get relief he will of course appeal to the SCOTUS. That's probably 2 years out if it goes that way.

SCOTUS has no constitutional interest in this. Trump partisans constantly declaim that "he will take it to SCOTUS. "

But of course, put up the money and appeal. Or don't put up the money, get the assets seized and monetized, and appeal.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Try and take it James... that I would like to see... people showing up for work and James bolting the doors putting them all out of a job.... all while shootings are going on outside in the streets of NY.... she already gets booed everywhere she shows her fat face.... she is the one who will be out of a job soon....

Are you right in the head?
The assets would be resold by a master. Until then the operations would likely continue and afterwards likely continue.

Oh wait, you're threatening violence again. Got it.

 

[para bellum]

But the Madoff convictions stood up.

Madoff pled guilty to 11 counts of Federal Securities Fraud and there were thousands of investors that lost billions of dollars. There wasn't much in the way of "grey area" in that case.

 

[bendog]

Madoff pled guilty to 11 counts of Federal Securities Fraud and there were thousands of investors that lost billions of dollars. There wasn't much in the way of "grey area" in that case.

I didn't bring up Madoff. I suggested finding a different comparison.

 

[martybegan]

But the Madoff convictions stood up.

Still, the problem is that State's case pretty much was that "Trump did it more than the other guys." ANd the problem with that is when does it stop being standard business practice and begins being a crime. There's a legal term called "vagueness." If a person of normal intelligence can't tell, it shouldn't be illegal. The State was arguing, essentially, "well no one would think they could fudge values THAT much."

We'll see. It may not be too far fetched to see Trump "devested" of Bedminster. What happens if the Scrotus says "too vague?" Does NY have to buy back Bedminster from whomever bought it from them after they took it from Trump? LOL

Madoff committed an actual crime. The idea is of "created wealth", not the criminality or lack of criminality behind it.

What the appeals courts will say is you have to prove it first via criminal or normal civil actions BEFORE you can use the law in question, which was what has happened in the past.

 

[para bellum]

SCOTUS has no constitutional interest in this. Trump partisans constantly declaim that "he will take it to SCOTUS. "

Oh absolutely there are 5th, 8th, and 14th amendment issues here. That is very much in the SCOTUS's wheelhouse.

 

[para bellum]

I didn't bring up Madoff. I suggested finding a different comparison.

Oh, sorry. I agree, lol. Madoff is not comparable.

 

[Dante]

It's very possible this case will make it to the SCOTUS. It has to go through the Appellate Dept and NY Court of Appeals first, but if Trump does not get relief he will of course appeal to the SCOTUS. That's probably 2 years out if it goes that way.

No. What would Trump be asking the US Supreme Court to do? Exactly. please...

Most anything may be possible in life, but in all probabilities Trump's appeal(s) on this are going nowhere. It's a state issue. I doubt the federal district court will grant what Trump could ask..

If upheld, Engoron’s ruling will force Trump to give up a sizable chunk of his fortune. Engoron ordered Trump to pay $355m in penalties, but with interest the total has grown to nearly $454m. That total will increase by nearly $112,000 a day until he pays.

Donald Trump appeals $454m New York civil fraud judgment

Former president’s lawyers ask state’s mid-level appeals court to overturn Judge Arthur Engoron’s verdict

www.theguardian.com

 

[Rambunctious]

Are you right in the head?
The assets would be resold by a master. Until then the operations would likely continue and afterwards likely continue.

Oh wait, you're threatening violence again. Got it.

She said she would personally pad lock the doors... she is the one who isn't "right" in the head....

 

[Rambunctious]

The way the penalty (minus the interest) was arrived at was not at all unusual. What was unusual is listed in the ruling -- which people like you constantly ignore. You're a dupe, making political arguments that fail in courts.

No one believes that....

 

[bendog]

Madoff committed an actual crime. The idea is of "created wealth", not the criminality or lack of criminality behind it.

What the appeals courts will say is you have to prove it first via criminal or normal civil actions BEFORE you can use the law in question, which was what has happened in the past.

The madoff thing is irrelevant.

The issue is whether a person of avg intelligence would realize that what Trump was doing was a crime. Imo that is debateable. Because:

1) If it wasn't obviously illegal ... why didn't everyone overvalue, then undervalue, the same pieces of property to gain tax/insurance advantages?

OR

2) IF every developer does it too, but to lesser extents, then how could Trump know he crossed some none explicitly set out in statute, line?

I hate trump. I hope he dies broke, and his kids are broke, and so are his ex-wives, and I hope the central park five get to piss in his face as he lies dying ..... but still ...... if we don't give louts like Trump equal rights, assholes like Trump will continue to shit on people weaker than themselves.

 

[Godboy]

Again, the SC will have nothing to do with this case. The State of NY decided there was fraud committed in this case, and he got fined. He can appeal but if he wants a stay, he'll have to pony up the cash.

Its a violation of the 8th Amendment. The Supreme Court will take it up.

 

[para bellum]

No. What would Trump be asking the US Supreme Court to do? Exactly. please...

Vacate the decision based on lack of due process and excessive fines, obviously.

 

[martybegan]

The madoff thing is irrelevant.

The issue is whether a person of avg intelligence would realize that what Trump was doing was a crime. Imo that is debateable. Because:

1) If it wasn't obviously illegal ... why didn't everyone overvalue, then undervalue, the same pieces of property to gain tax/insurance advantages?

OR

2) IF every developer does it too, but to lesser extents, then how could Trump know he crossed some none explicitly set out in statute, line.

it's relevant to the idea pushed by the other posters of the "potential money" lost by the bank, who didn't even claim they were defrauded. People that were actually defrauded weren't given that money.

Why do people start high as the seller and low as the buyer when haggling over anything?

 

[Dante]

Madoff pled guilty to 11 counts of Federal Securities Fraud and there were thousands of investors that lost billions of dollars. There wasn't much in the way of "grey area" in that case.

The judge said in his ruling that the former president’s “complete lack of contrition” bordered on pathological.

"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological,” he said. He also noted that Mr. Trump had not committed violent crimes and also conceded that “Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff.” Still, he wrote, “defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways.”

NYT:
Even though the lenders made money from Mr. Trump, they were the purported victims in the case, with Ms. James arguing that without his fraud, they could have made even more.

The financial penalty reflects those lost profits, with nearly half of the $355 million — $168 million — representing the interest that Mr. Trump saved, and the remaining sum representing his profit on the recent sale of two properties, money that the judge has now clawed back from Mr. Trump and corporate entities he owns.

 

[Dante]

Vacate the decision based on lack of due process and excessive fines, obviously.

No. He'd have to be challenging the law itself. STOP MAKING SHIT UP

 

[martybegan]

The judge said in his ruling that the former president’s “complete lack of contrition” bordered on pathological.

"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological,” he said. He also noted that Mr. Trump had not committed violent crimes and also conceded that “Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff.” Still, he wrote, “defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways.”

NYT:
Even though the lenders made money from Mr. Trump, they were the purported victims in the case, with Ms. James arguing that without his fraud, they could have made even more.

The financial penalty reflects those lost profits, with nearly half of the $355 million — $168 million — representing the interest that Mr. Trump saved, and the remaining sum representing his profit on the recent sale of two properties, money that the judge has now clawed back from Mr. Trump and corporate entities he owns.

Which is even more proof this is nothing more than a political hit job.

You really suck at making your case and backing your shit up. May I suggest the Hello Kitty message board as more your speed?

 

[Dante]

it's relevant to the idea pushed by the other posters of the "potential money" lost by the bank, who didn't even claim they were defrauded. People that were actually defrauded weren't given that money.

Why do people start high as the seller and low as the buyer when haggling over anything?

Clue:

The judge determined that Trump, top officials at the Trump Organization, and his companies submitted "blatantly false financial data" to accountants in order to borrow more money at more favorable interest rates.

"When confronted at trial with the statements, defendants' fact and expert witnesses simply denied reality, and defendants failed to accept responsibility or to impose internal controls to prevent future recurrences," Engoron wrote.

He said the frauds in the case "leap off the page and shock the conscience."

Judge in Trump's New York fraud case orders him to pay $354 million in penalties, plus millions more in interest

The judge's ruling bars former President Donald Trump from conducting business in New York for three years. Trump has vowed to appeal.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Dante]

Which is even more proof this is nothing more than a political hit job.

You really suck at making your case and backing your shit up. May I suggest the Hello Kitty message board as more your speed?

Huh? Political hit job?