Trump cannot be Guilty of Obstruction concerning Comey

[Slade3200]

I've been asking all along... If the investigations continue, how were they obstructed? Nothing Trump has done had any effect on the investigations. He may have asked Comey to ease off Flynn or make it clear he wasn't personally under investigation, but that's not obstruction. Asking for Comey's loyalty is also, prima facie, not obstruction!

All true, and I agree, but the timing of firing Comey does make you go hmmm.

What would've been a "good time" to fire an incompetent FBI Director?

Sometime prior to asking him to drop a politically damaging investigation.

And probably before calling him multiple times to compliment him on the great job he was doing

 

[Boss]

I've been asking all along... If the investigations continue, how were they obstructed? Nothing Trump has done had any effect on the investigations. He may have asked Comey to ease off Flynn or make it clear he wasn't personally under investigation, but that's not obstruction. Asking for Comey's loyalty is also, prima facie, not obstruction!

Put on your objectivity hat if you can find it for a second. Trump asked Comey to stay on as director of the FBI, asked for his loyalty, asked for him to let the Flynn thing go, then proceeded to compliment Comey on the excellent job he was doing. Once Trump saw that Comey was not dropping the investigation he fired him. Im not saying that is lock n key obstruction but it is dangerously close. The firing was the action that could be taken as intent to slow, prohibit, discourage they continuation of an investigation that Trump obviously wants to be over. If the investigation had nothing to do with Trumps campaign then I'd agree with your point and Dershowitz's point but its more complicated than that. Do you really not see the issue here?

Once Trump saw that Comey was not dropping the investigation he fired him

That's YOUR presumption but not what Trump said. And again, the firing of Comey had no effect on the investigation whatsoever. In fact, it created a scenario by which Comey becomes a private citizen and no longer subject to the confidentiality required of his position.

Now, put on YOUR objectivity hat... Trump fired Comey because he was incompetent and up until a few days before his firing, you have prominent Democrats on record, calling for his firing on that basis. Nothing about Comey's firing had any effect on the investigation other than to free Comey from being under purview of the AG. If Comey were knowledgeable of any incriminating evidence against Trump, it would've been to Trump's advantage for him to remain as FBI Director under the direct authority of Trump's AG. This absolutely destroys the entire argument.

 

[Slade3200]

I've been asking all along... If the investigations continue, how were they obstructed? Nothing Trump has done had any effect on the investigations. He may have asked Comey to ease off Flynn or make it clear he wasn't personally under investigation, but that's not obstruction. Asking for Comey's loyalty is also, prima facie, not obstruction!

Put on your objectivity hat if you can find it for a second. Trump asked Comey to stay on as director of the FBI, asked for his loyalty, asked for him to let the Flynn thing go, then proceeded to compliment Comey on the excellent job he was doing. Once Trump saw that Comey was not dropping the investigation he fired him. Im not saying that is lock n key obstruction but it is dangerously close. The firing was the action that could be taken as intent to slow, prohibit, discourage they continuation of an investigation that Trump obviously wants to be over. If the investigation had nothing to do with Trumps campaign then I'd agree with your point and Dershowitz's point but its more complicated than that. Do you really not see the issue here?

Once Trump saw that Comey was not dropping the investigation he fired him

That's YOUR presumption but not what Trump said. And again, the firing of Comey had no effect on the investigation whatsoever. In fact, it created a scenario by which Comey becomes a private citizen and no longer subject to the confidentiality required of his position.

Now, put on YOUR objectivity hat... Trump fired Comey because he was incompetent and up until a few days before his firing, you have prominent Democrats on record, calling for his firing on that basis. Nothing about Comey's firing had any effect on the investigation other than to free Comey from being under purview of the AG. If Comey were knowledgeable of any incriminating evidence against Trump, it would've been to Trump's advantage for him to remain as FBI Director under the direct authority of Trump's AG. This absolutely destroys the entire argument.

It doesn't really destroy the argument, Trump making a rash emotional decision without thinking it through also would explain it. And from the way they WH handled the aftermath of the firing, i'd say that was a likely explanation.

Trump said that firing Comey "eased great pressure" in regards to the Russia investigation. How do you not think that it was the reason for his firing. It was obviously because of something he said in his testimony to Congress... which was about the Russia investigation. Are you really not seeing it?

 

[Boss]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

 

[Boss]

It doesn't really destroy the argument, Trump making a rash emotional decision without thinking it through also would explain it. And from the way they WH handled the aftermath of the firing, i'd say that was a likely explanation.

Trump said that firing Comey "eased great pressure" in regards to the Russia investigation. How do you not think that it was the reason for his firing. It was obviously because of something he said in his testimony to Congress... which was about the Russia investigation. Are you really not seeing it?

I don't think his decision was rash or emotional. I think he fired Comey, as he said, because Comey was incompetent. And days before his firing, prominent Democrats agreed and were calling for Comey to be fired for incompetence.

Yes, Trump cited the Russia investigation along with Hillary's email investigation, the IRS scandal and other things as well.... it was a collection of incompetence by Comey that resulted in his firing. And AGAIN.... prima facie.... the firing of the FBI Director has NO EFFECT on any ongoing investigation.... Are you REALLY saying that you think Trump didn't know that?

 

[Slade3200]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

So you actually expect us to believe that the Director of the FBI has no impact on the investigations conducted by the FBI? Are you nuts? Why do you think Trump went to Comey to shut it down?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

In this 4 minute video.

Constitution professor Alan Dershowitz explains how Trump is within his presidential rights, and not obstruction of justice, when it comes to Comey. ......

A president can not tell the FBI who to prosecute or not to prosecute that is just crazy..


QUESTION OF INTENT

Yes, we know how good Comey is with intent. But Trump didn't tell him to not prosecute, nor does the FBI prosecute anybody. Like all lefties you know nothing that hasn't been spoon fed to you by your mind masters.

Trump did exactly what Nixon did and tried to interfere or influence the FBI investigation ... Maybe what the lefties have been saying all along about Trump and the Russian's connections have truth to it as well..

We are just beginning to see the heads roll...

You keep regurgitating the same garbage hoping to make this Watergate. Nixon broke laws and tried to cover them up. It isn't remotely the same. You are lying.

We will see... Cover -ups may have happened with the Russian connections in his cabinet and campaign.

So now what?

 

[Slade3200]

It doesn't really destroy the argument, Trump making a rash emotional decision without thinking it through also would explain it. And from the way they WH handled the aftermath of the firing, i'd say that was a likely explanation.

Trump said that firing Comey "eased great pressure" in regards to the Russia investigation. How do you not think that it was the reason for his firing. It was obviously because of something he said in his testimony to Congress... which was about the Russia investigation. Are you really not seeing it?

I don't think his decision was rash or emotional. I think he fired Comey, as he said, because Comey was incompetent. And days before his firing, prominent Democrats agreed and were calling for Comey to be fired for incompetence.

Yes, Trump cited the Russia investigation along with Hillary's email investigation, the IRS scandal and other things as well.... it was a collection of incompetence by Comey that resulted in his firing. And AGAIN.... prima facie.... the firing of the FBI Director has NO EFFECT on any ongoing investigation.... Are you REALLY saying that you think Trump didn't know that?

What Dems call for has nothing to do with this discussion. Trump asked Comey to stay on as the director so his actions during the Hillary investigation were obviously not the reason for the firing or he would have fired him in January. According to Comey Trump had called him and complimented him on his job performance multiple times. I think its pretty obvious that Trump fired Comey because he wouldn't play ball. I'm not stating that as a fact, it is my opinion, but it is pretty damn obvious.

 

[candycorn]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

You'd have to have common sense to understand it. You're not qualified.

Reminds me of the mobster who assaulted the witness the day before the witness was going to testify. "I didn't stop him from talking, I shot him in both kneecaps". He changed his mind on his own.

Trump tried to bully the investigators by firing their boss. It's been his MO for his entire life.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Comey testimony: Trump has constitutional authority to stop investigation of any person, Dershowitz says

Alan M. Dershowitz, a law professor at Harvard, wrote on FoxNews.com Wednesday that President Trump has the constitutional right to direct his FBI director to stop an investigation of anyone “by simply pardoning that person.”

“Throughout American history-- from Adams to Jefferson to Lincoln to Roosevelt to Kennedy to Obama-- presidents have directed (not merely requested) the Justice Department to investigate, prosecute (or not prosecute) specific individuals or categories of individuals,” Dershowitz wrote. “It is only recently that the tradition of an independent Justice Department and FBI has emerged. But traditions, even salutary ones, cannot form the basis of a criminal charge.”
Comey testimony: Trump has constitutional authority to stop investigation of any person, Dershowitz says

Then why was Nixon impeached?

He wasnt impeached.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

So you actually expect us to believe that the Director of the FBI has no impact on the investigations conducted by the FBI? Are you nuts? Why do you think Trump went to Comey to shut it down?

Trump went to Comey to shut what down? Employees surfing porn while on the job? What in the hell are you ranting about?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

You'd have to have common sense to understand it. You're not qualified.

Reminds me of the mobster who assaulted the witness the day before the witness was going to testify. "I didn't stop him from talking, I shot him in both kneecaps". He changed his mind on his own.

Trump tried to bully the investigators by firing their boss. It's been his MO for his entire life.

When you've lost Chris Matthews......

 

[Old Rocks]

In this 4 minute video.

Constitution professor Alan Dershowitz explains how Trump is within his presidential rights, and not obstruction of justice, when it comes to Comey. ......

A president can not tell the FBI who to prosecute or not to prosecute that is just crazy..


QUESTION OF INTENT

Yes, we know how good Comey is with intent. But Trump didn't tell him to not prosecute, nor does the FBI prosecute anybody. Like all lefties you know nothing that hasn't been spoon fed to you by your mind masters.

Trump did exactly what Nixon did and tried to interfere or influence the FBI investigation ... Maybe what the lefties have been saying all along about Trump and the Russian's connections have truth to it as well..

We are just beginning to see the heads roll...

You keep regurgitating the same garbage hoping to make this Watergate. Nixon broke laws and tried to cover them up. It isn't remotely the same. You are lying.

You are correct, it is far more serious than Watergate.

James Clapper: Trump-Russia Investigation Worse Than Watergate

James Clapper: Russia Investigation Worse Than Watergate
The former Director of National Intelligence said the 1970-era scandal “pales” in comparison to what the U.S. is confronting now.

James Clapper, the former Director of National Intelligence, said the Watergate scandal that brought down the Nixon presidency “pales” in comparison to allegations of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia during the 2016 presidential election.

“I lived through Watergate. I was on active duty then in the Air Force, I was a young officer. It was a scary time,” Clapper told reporters Wednesday at Australia’s National Press Club in Canberra, adding that “if you compare the two that Watergate pales, really, in my view, compared to what we’re confronting now.”

 

[Old Rocks]

Comey testimony: Trump has constitutional authority to stop investigation of any person, Dershowitz says

Alan M. Dershowitz, a law professor at Harvard, wrote on FoxNews.com Wednesday that President Trump has the constitutional right to direct his FBI director to stop an investigation of anyone “by simply pardoning that person.”

“Throughout American history-- from Adams to Jefferson to Lincoln to Roosevelt to Kennedy to Obama-- presidents have directed (not merely requested) the Justice Department to investigate, prosecute (or not prosecute) specific individuals or categories of individuals,” Dershowitz wrote. “It is only recently that the tradition of an independent Justice Department and FBI has emerged. But traditions, even salutary ones, cannot form the basis of a criminal charge.”
Comey testimony: Trump has constitutional authority to stop investigation of any person, Dershowitz says

God, but you butt licking 'Conservatives' long for a dictator. The Director of the FBI owes his allegiance and loyalty to the Constitution and the law, not to a President.

 

[busybee01]

A former counsel to the Watergate investigation says there is enough there to warrant a obstruction of justice charge against Trump if Mueller wanted one. There are different opinions.

Yeah..no. If the democrats have the votes they can impeach regardless of Trump not doing anything wrong....

Not true.
The grounds for impeachment are:
"The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors."
Impeachment in the United States - Wikipedia

Now where has there been proven Treason by Trump? Or proven "bribery", or other high crimes and misdemeanors".
Now Bill Clinton was impeached for Perjury and obstruction of justice.

The Congress defines what a High Crime and Misdemeanor is.

 

[Old Rocks]

Then why was Nixon impeached?

Uhm... Nixon wasn't impeached.

And if you talk to experts.....they will tell you they could not have won an impeachment against Nixon....

Really? Then why did he resign? Nixon was toast, just as Goldwater explained to him.

 

[Old Rocks]

A former counsel to the Watergate investigation says there is enough there to warrant a obstruction of justice charge against Trump if Mueller wanted one. There are different opinions.

Yeah..no. If the democrats have the votes they can impeach regardless of Trump not doing anything wrong....

The only way that the Democrats could impeach the fat senile old orange clown is if a considerable number of Republicans also voted to impeach. How many people has the clown offended in the GOP?

 

[Boss]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

So you actually expect us to believe that the Director of the FBI has no impact on the investigations conducted by the FBI? Are you nuts? Why do you think Trump went to Comey to shut it down?

He didn't go to Comey to shut it down. He asked Comey to let Flynn go because Flynn had done nothing wrong and didn't deserve to be subjected to an investigation. He asked Comey to expedite the process and get the investigation complete and to let it be known that he, himself, was not the subject of criminal investigation.

What you keep on doing is interjecting your OPINIONS where there are no facts. You're speculating and trying to pass conjecture off as known fact when it's not. You can't prosecute people on suspicions and innuendo. You need concrete evidence and you don't have any.

 

[Slade3200]

Firing the director of the body investigating him or his campaign

Did that action obstruct the investigation, yes or no?

Yes--it was clearly intended to.

Please explain how that is so? We have testimony from the Deputy Director that completely contradicts this. FBI Investigations are not conducted by the Director. He simply directs the department. Their investigations and work continue in his absence. What if Comey died? Would that end all the investigations the FBI was currently working on? Of course not!

The investigations have continued on unabated since Comey's firing.... plain factual truth of the matter that Comey's firing didn't impede or obstruct anything. You have to be a complete moron not to understand that.... but then, look who we're talking to here!

So you actually expect us to believe that the Director of the FBI has no impact on the investigations conducted by the FBI? Are you nuts? Why do you think Trump went to Comey to shut it down?

Trump went to Comey to shut what down? Employees surfing porn while on the job? What in the hell are you ranting about?

Back to the playground with you. There is an investigation going on in case you didn't hear

 

[Old Rocks]

A president can not tell the FBI who to prosecute or not to prosecute that is just crazy..


QUESTION OF INTENT

Yes, we know how good Comey is with intent. But Trump didn't tell him to not prosecute, nor does the FBI prosecute anybody. Like all lefties you know nothing that hasn't been spoon fed to you by your mind masters.

Trump did exactly what Nixon did and tried to interfere or influence the FBI investigation ... Maybe what the lefties have been saying all along about Trump and the Russian's connections have truth to it as well..

We are just beginning to see the heads roll...

You keep regurgitating the same garbage hoping to make this Watergate. Nixon broke laws and tried to cover them up. It isn't remotely the same. You are lying.

We will see... Cover -ups may have happened with the Russian connections in his cabinet and campaign.

So now what?

Mueler.