AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Good luck with that. Homo Sapiens has been killing each other as long as we have existed. We are an apex predator and apex predators don’t allow competition for resources.
Zone1 Trump : "and Mr Putin: If you don’t make a deal, we’re gonna give them a lot. We’re gonna give more than they ever got.”
- Thread starter peacefan
- Start date
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
So Russia used million dollar SAMs to kill thousand dollar rockets. Sounds like a great deal for Ukraine.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Look at the source TASS, the official “news agency” (read propaganda dispersal organ) of the Kremlin. Its pronouncements are like Pavel Chekhov’s in the Star Trek TV show. Everything Russian was great and Russia invented everything.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Selling weapons fuel R&D. Once weapons are sold or used, they have to be replaced and/or improved. Look at the Spanish Civil War for examples, the Germans and Italians used it as a test ground to evaluate and then improve their weapons.
peacefan
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #67
yeah, of course there is a link between the sales of weapons and R&D of weapons.
but i think that at best you'll get small incremental change this way.
i'm a big fan of the blitzkrieg principle, because it ensures a battlefield is not contested for too long.
and you can only do blitzkrieg with a sufficient lead in the designs of your weapons.
that's why i'll continue to advocate for a much more R&D based NATO defense policy.
peacefan
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #68
Over 20 countries join G7 declaration on security guarantees for Ukraine — Zelensky
Remote : Sun, 27 Aug 2023 00:55:09 +0300
Local : 2023-08-26(Saturday) 23 : 55 : 09
Found via NicerApp WebOS
i'd like some more clarity on what this 'significant military potential' entails.
(forwarded to whitehouse.gov/contact in a moment)
Remote : Sun, 27 Aug 2023 00:55:09 +0300
Local : 2023-08-26(Saturday) 23 : 55 : 09
Found via NicerApp WebOS
i'd like some more clarity on what this 'significant military potential' entails.
(forwarded to whitehouse.gov/contact in a moment)
peacefan
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #69
Ukrainian forces report breakthrough in counteroffensive
Ukraine's counteroffensive has been a painstaking crawl for months. However, Ukrainian forces believe they have broken through the most difficult of the Russian fortifications in the south and will be able to move forward more quickly. Debora Patta has more.
FYI. is this some hope on the horizon, finally?
Ukraine's counteroffensive has been a painstaking crawl for months. However, Ukrainian forces believe they have broken through the most difficult of the Russian fortifications in the south and will be able to move forward more quickly. Debora Patta has more.
FYI. is this some hope on the horizon, finally?
biden, and nato, have been masterful so far. no one needs trump to blunder in with his bullshit to screw it up.
if trump can end this war he should do so, immediately, as a private citizen, as mr carter and bill richardson and even dennis rodman have done as private citizens to facilitate peace.
that way he could earn that nobel peace prize that he so covets for his collection of "participation trophies."
Tom Paine 1949
Diamond Member
- Mar 15, 2020
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Actually, Trump is — even as a private citizen facing criminal charges for his previous conduct — encouraging Putin to wage his “long war” on Ukraine.
So long as there is any hope that Trump will be the Republican candidate for President and may even win, Putin can see a clear road to an easy “peace” and “victory” that will allow Russia to keep control of all the Ukrainian lands they have taken & held since his 2020 invasion.
Even if Trump is jailed, can’t run, or loses a close election. Putin hopes that chaos and division in the U.S. will wear down the West’s willingness to aid Ukraine. His political survival probably depends on this.
Despite terrible suffering, it does not now appear the Ukrainian state or military is ready to give up the fight, or that Russia can ever hope to realize victory and a “peace” on terms that Russians will consider a victory.
Of course nothing is absolutely certain in war, as in politics generally. Most Western experts and Putin himself, thought Russian troops would take Kiev in a matter of days!
It seems, at least according to a recent statement by Zelensky, that Ukrainians will get an opportunity to vote for their President and other leaders even during this invasion. That may give the world a better idea of how determined — or not — they are to continue fighting to reclaim 20% of their land from the mostly demoralized Russian troops occupying it.
My own feeling is we would be fools to abandon Ukraine now. It is a terrible war … as all wars are. Despite whatever past errors & miscalculations occurred — on all sides — that led to this point, the U.S. cannot let Russia’s aggressive dictatorial state succeed, so long as the Ukrainians show a willingness to fight and defend their sovereignty.
If the Ukrainians themselves ever decide they have no choice but trade “land for — a temporary — peace” then we are obliged to help them achieve that much … from a position of military equality, with an intact army able to protect itself from future Russian attacks.
So far the Biden Administration has done a fine job with the cards it was dealt. NATO is more united and stronger than I — or Putin — ever expected, and the Ukrainians have proven they have staying power and a thirst for freedom and independence.
Donald Trump has always showed fulsome admiration for dictators like Putin, XiJinping and Kim Jung-un, and contempt for liberal democracy, Europe & NATO. He hasn’t changed a bit … except he is now more bitter and more unstable than ever.
So long as there is any hope that Trump will be the Republican candidate for President and may even win, Putin can see a clear road to an easy “peace” and “victory” that will allow Russia to keep control of all the Ukrainian lands they have taken & held since his 2020 invasion.
Even if Trump is jailed, can’t run, or loses a close election. Putin hopes that chaos and division in the U.S. will wear down the West’s willingness to aid Ukraine. His political survival probably depends on this.
Despite terrible suffering, it does not now appear the Ukrainian state or military is ready to give up the fight, or that Russia can ever hope to realize victory and a “peace” on terms that Russians will consider a victory.
Of course nothing is absolutely certain in war, as in politics generally. Most Western experts and Putin himself, thought Russian troops would take Kiev in a matter of days!
It seems, at least according to a recent statement by Zelensky, that Ukrainians will get an opportunity to vote for their President and other leaders even during this invasion. That may give the world a better idea of how determined — or not — they are to continue fighting to reclaim 20% of their land from the mostly demoralized Russian troops occupying it.
My own feeling is we would be fools to abandon Ukraine now. It is a terrible war … as all wars are. Despite whatever past errors & miscalculations occurred — on all sides — that led to this point, the U.S. cannot let Russia’s aggressive dictatorial state succeed, so long as the Ukrainians show a willingness to fight and defend their sovereignty.
If the Ukrainians themselves ever decide they have no choice but trade “land for — a temporary — peace” then we are obliged to help them achieve that much … from a position of military equality, with an intact army able to protect itself from future Russian attacks.
So far the Biden Administration has done a fine job with the cards it was dealt. NATO is more united and stronger than I — or Putin — ever expected, and the Ukrainians have proven they have staying power and a thirst for freedom and independence.
Donald Trump has always showed fulsome admiration for dictators like Putin, XiJinping and Kim Jung-un, and contempt for liberal democracy, Europe & NATO. He hasn’t changed a bit … except he is now more bitter and more unstable than ever.
Last edited:
Trump finally reveals how he thinks he could end Russia’s war in Ukraine in a day
The former president boasted about his relationships to the Russian and Ukrainian presidentswww.independent.co.uk
i know very well that i've got only 1 out of 8+ billion of a voice here, but i like this plan.
Putin and his comerades only respect superior strength (much like the Chinese and the Muslims, by the way, and even ourselves - such 'enforced respect' seems a constant on this planet even).
i'm being serious : let's amend the NATO charter (if possible, of course) to let countries join while at war with another nation.
i really see no good reason for the opposite to be the law.
and let's support Ukraine with troops.
blitzkrieg has at least one advantage : a quick stabilization of the streets and fields.
i think Europe, if Trump gets elected and attempts to put anything like discussed in this post of mine into practice,
should fully support the war effort in Ukraine as well with more funds spent, an approval for that NATO charter amendment i just proposed in this post, and European boots driving the Russians out of Ukraine.
in matters of war, half-comitted support is often seen by the receiving side as a form of betrayal. that's really not how you want to embrace millions of people into your country unions.
the US freed Europe from the Nazis. now the EU + US + their allies should donate money time, and effort to combat the (Middle-)Eastern Alliance (China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Brazil, South Africa, etc) on all fronts they open.
because in all of my years of online peace activism (with a sometimes hawkish stance, admitted), i've never discovered any of the oppressed in that MEA have a solid foundation for their complaints about the west.
and recently i came to terms with the fact that both Biden and Trump are incredibly right on this after all. the people of Eastern Europe, when offered a well-informed choice about joining the EU and NATO, chose the EU and NATO.
if that means Russia's sphere of influence towards the south-west retreats to their national borders rather than that of their attempt to restart the USSR under a new name (Russian Federation, if i'm not mistaken),
then so be it.
they can expand towards China. police it against muslim extremism and other serious crime too, please. we do that in other places around the world then.
if we're going to take the Black Sea, let's do it with decisive force.
but in my opinion, not in this half-motivated way we've been seeing during -mark my words- what will be known as the starting years of the Ukrainian war.
we can count on our own conspiracy communities (and media industries), and our constitutional right to end the reign of any government that betrays the people in some way, to keep our governments honest enough for an actually sane, kind international order to be established.
Good grief. Your editorializing is just dumb.
PeterPilot
Diamond Member
- Jan 17, 2023
- 2,891
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Gawd A'Mighty, this sounds remarkably like how all the "experts" were speaking in our 10th year in Vietnam. Hell yes, defoliate the jungles with Agent Orange, bring superior fire power, etc etc ad nauseam. So much BS, which Trump is skilled at delivering.Trump finally reveals how he thinks he could end Russia’s war in Ukraine in a day
The former president boasted about his relationships to the Russian and Ukrainian presidents
i know very well that i've got only 1 out of 8+ billion of a voice here, but i like this plan.
Putin and his comerades only respect superior strength (much like the Chinese and the Muslims, by the way, and even ourselves - such 'enforced respect' seems a constant on this planet even).
i'm being serious : let's amend the NATO charter (if possible, of course) to let countries join while at war with another nation.
i really see no good reason for the opposite to be the law.
and let's support Ukraine with troops.
blitzkrieg has at least one advantage : a quick stabilization of the streets and fields.
i think Europe, if Trump gets elected and attempts to put anything like discussed in this post of mine into practice,
should fully support the war effort in Ukraine as well with more funds spent, an approval for that NATO charter amendment i just proposed in this post, and European boots driving the Russians out of Ukraine.
in matters of war, half-comitted support is often seen by the receiving side as a form of betrayal. that's really not how you want to embrace millions of people into your country unions.
the US freed Europe from the Nazis. now the EU + US + their allies should donate money time, and effort to combat the (Middle-)Eastern Alliance (China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Brazil, South Africa, etc) on all fronts they open.
because in all of my years of online peace activism (with a sometimes hawkish stance, admitted), i've never discovered any of the oppressed in that MEA have a solid foundation for their complaints about the west.
and recently i came to terms with the fact that both Biden and Trump are incredibly right on this after all. the people of Eastern Europe, when offered a well-informed choice about joining the EU and NATO, chose the EU and NATO.
if that means Russia's sphere of influence towards the south-west retreats to their national borders rather than that of their attempt to restart the USSR under a new name (Russian Federation, if i'm not mistaken),
then so be it.
they can expand towards China. police it against muslim extremism and other serious crime too, please. we do that in other places around the world then.
if we're going to take the Black Sea, let's do it with decisive force.
but in my opinion, not in this half-motivated way we've been seeing during -mark my words- what will be known as the starting years of the Ukrainian war.
we can count on our own conspiracy communities (and media industries), and our constitutional right to end the reign of any government that betrays the people in some way, to keep our governments honest enough for an actually sane, kind international order to be established.
PeterPilot
Diamond Member
- Jan 17, 2023
- 2,891
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Trump the Israeli is a clown. One day he says the US is out of ammo, which is essentially true and applies to NATO as a whole, and the next days he says he's going to give Ukraine whatever it wants. I'm voting for the other Jew with the Green Party.
Trump talks like a 10 yr old because thats the intelligence level of the average American masstard and as far as
reading a script,,,,you must be referring to the retarded village idiot in the whitehouse now when he has his teleprompter on. When Trump was discussing issues with Barak Hussein X,,,,Hussein could say nothing involving any depth of knowledge and Trump was spitting facts from memory.
Most speakers use flash cards to keep on Topic.
If Trump is talking about furthering the Fake War in Ukraine , it means that he finally caved into the Davos cabals wishes which means, they will allow him to be president again.
Expect 75 million more "Newcomers' per UN's orders for the USA. Harris let in 25 million and whoever wins will let in the remaining 75 million.
THE DEEP STATE HATED TRUMP BECAUSE THEY WANT ANOTHER COLD WAR WITH RUSSIA; Trump was against this.
peacefan
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #79
and the deep state is not the only party involved in the secret aspects of policy making.
the mass media, x.com and facebook.com, not to mention tiktok, are all involved i think.
but a country can not defend itself if it doesn't have a secret and a public side to it's policies.
so i'm fine with it.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
I don't know, peacefan. I think you may have missed Trump's point. He deosn't want to send U.S. forces to fight for Ukraine. He wants the war to be over, so the loss of their blood and our treasure can stop.Trump finally reveals how he thinks he could end Russia’s war in Ukraine in a day
The former president boasted about his relationships to the Russian and Ukrainian presidents
i know very well that i've got only 1 out of 8+ billion of a voice here, but i like this plan.
Putin and his comerades only respect superior strength (much like the Chinese and the Muslims, by the way, and even ourselves - such 'enforced respect' seems a constant on this planet even).
i'm being serious : let's amend the NATO charter (if possible, of course) to let countries join while at war with another nation.
i really see no good reason for the opposite to be the law.
and let's support Ukraine with troops.
blitzkrieg has at least one advantage : a quick stabilization of the streets and fields.
i think Europe, if Trump gets elected and attempts to put anything like discussed in this post of mine into practice,
should fully support the war effort in Ukraine as well with more funds spent, an approval for that NATO charter amendment i just proposed in this post, and European boots driving the Russians out of Ukraine.
in matters of war, half-comitted support is often seen by the receiving side as a form of betrayal. that's really not how you want to embrace millions of people into your country unions.
the US freed Europe from the Nazis. now the EU + US + their allies should donate money time, and effort to combat the (Middle-)Eastern Alliance (China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Brazil, South Africa, etc) on all fronts they open.
because in all of my years of online peace activism (with a sometimes hawkish stance, admitted), i've never discovered any of the oppressed in that MEA have a solid foundation for their complaints about the west.
and recently i came to terms with the fact that both Biden and Trump are incredibly right on this after all. the people of Eastern Europe, when offered a well-informed choice about joining the EU and NATO, chose the EU and NATO.
if that means Russia's sphere of influence towards the south-west retreats to their national borders rather than that of their attempt to restart the USSR under a new name (Russian Federation, if i'm not mistaken),
then so be it.
they can expand towards China. police it against muslim extremism and other serious crime too, please. we do that in other places around the world then.
if we're going to take the Black Sea, let's do it with decisive force.
but in my opinion, not in this half-motivated way we've been seeing during -mark my words- what will be known as the starting years of the Ukrainian war.
we can count on our own conspiracy communities (and media industries), and our constitutional right to end the reign of any government that betrays the people in some way, to keep our governments honest enough for an actually sane, kind international order to be established.
Let's look at his words:
Mr Trump was asked for his specific plan to bring the war to an end in an interview with Fox News host Maria Bartiromo on “Sunday Morning Futures” over the weekend.
His asserted that it would boil down to his established relationships with Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“I know Zelensky very well, I know Putin very well—even better—and I had a very good relationship with both of them,” he said.
He said he would tell Mr Zelensky: “No more, you gotta make a deal,” and Mr Putin: “If you don’t make a deal, we’re gonna give them a lot. We’re gonna give more than they ever got.”
This is exactly what I thought his plan was. To quote General Patton: It's so obvious a blind man could see it in a minute.
The point is that Trump can talk this way to Putin and Zelinsky because they will know that he means what he says. The fact that Trump does not constantly criticize Putin means that Putin can listen to him and not lose face. Zelinsky will lose a little face, because he will have to give up some territory for the Ruskies to be willing to make the deal.
But, Zelinsky chose to be in this spot. He could have allowed an election when election time came, and maybe he would not even be president.
I can't agree with your idea of the U.S. sending troops to make sure Zelinsky wins it all. I don't see how that benefits us, and frankly, not how it benefits the Ukranians, given that they've lost democracy anyway. I sure don't want countries to be able to join NATO, but only after they are attacked. It would be like letting people wait until their houses catch fire before buying fire insurance.
Trump means the idea of sending more military aid to Ukraine to be the threat that brings Russia to the table to negotiate in good faith. He certainly won't start another new war to become a twenty year quagmire. That's what the Twoparties like to do.
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