True or false: any personal freedom that brings harm to society in general should...

[PaulS1950]

Yes you have the freedom to break the law...
We as a society have the right to arrest, convict and punish you for your act but you are free to act.

 

[dblack]

Yes you have the freedom to break the law...
We as a society have the right to arrest, convict and punish you for your act but you are free to act.

That oft-repeated proposition is also turd-like. A close second to 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' in the jingoism sweepstakes for idiocy.

Go team!

 

[FA_Q2]

Yes you have the freedom to break the law...
We as a society have the right to arrest, convict and punish you for your act but you are free to act.

I think this confuses the concept of freedom which is action without legal consequence and ability. They have the ability to break the law but not the freedom as there are legal consequences to that action.

 

[PratchettFan]

The individual has no obligation to society.

That is nonsense. Your entire life is built upon the shoulders of those who came before you. The words you type here are products of your society. The machine you type them on are a product of your society. Without society you are almost certainly dead. You are part of it, take advantage of it, suck off its teat, and it is not free.

The nonsense here is that you are giving society credit for the work of individuals.

Really. What individual invented english? You really should make an effort if you want to talk with the adults.

 

[Skull Pilot]

An individual does have reciprocal obligations to his fellow wo/man and to the community in which he lives.

No he doesn't.

A person does not have to do anything for anyone unless he chooses to.

 

[PratchettFan]

Sometimes it is difficult for people to admit/see that certain personal freedoms cause societal harm. Legalizing all drugs for instance, would be very detrimental to society.

Using force against people causes more harm to society. The drug addict causes harm to himself end becomes a burden on his family, but when his habit becomes illegal he resorts to stealing and robbing thereby harming hundreds of people. When he in incarcerated, he becomes a burden on the taxpayers.

The idea that the government can solve social problems by making them illegal is fallacious.

Not all drugs are created equal. Even if it was legal, people would still max out their credit cards to get it. Once they did that, they would steal. The decision to steal would just be delayed.

Theft is against the law and should be punished. Your assumption that something leads to theft is not a valid reason to imprison people, ruin their lives and cost society billions or even trillions of dollars in the process. The war on drugs is a demonstrated and monumental failure. I believe it was Einstein who said doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

 

[editec]

"There is no such thing as society. There are only individuals"​

said the Objectivist Libertarian in the language invented by no single individual but that was developed over time though the intercourse of the millions of individuals that comprised that society that he believed did not exist.

 

[PratchettFan]

An individual does have reciprocal obligations to his fellow wo/man and to the community in which he lives.

No he doesn't.

A person does not have to do anything for anyone unless he chooses to.

If that makes you feel better, then please continue with your delusion. I mean while you continue to use the roads, electrical sytems, water, gas, clothing, language, and pretty much everything in your life you use to stay alive - all the product of that society you owe nothing to - paid for by pieces of paper which have value only because that society says it does. You are an independent individual standing on your own!

 

[freedombecki]

Sometimes it is difficult for people to admit/see that certain personal freedoms cause societal harm. Legalizing all drugs for instance, would be very detrimental to society.

That's why it should be lit up and smoked!

Oh, wait. We're already doing that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

An individual does have reciprocal obligations to his fellow wo/man and to the community in which he lives.

No he doesn't.

A person does not have to do anything for anyone unless he chooses to.

If that makes you feel better, then please continue with your delusion. I mean while you continue to use the roads,

Which i pay for via my taxes

electrical sytems,

Which I pay for via my electric bill and taxes

water,

I have my own well and do not use town water

gas, clothing

Both which I pay for

, language,

Language? really? What do I owe people for language? What do I have to do for other people because i speak the same language?

and pretty much everything in your life you use to stay alive - all the product of that society you owe nothing to

None of those things are given to me by so called "society"

paid for by pieces of paper which have value only because that society says it does. You are an independent individual standing on your own!

Living by the rules of a society does not obligate one to that society. I have absolutely no obligation to "society" other than to obey the laws. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything or give anything to anyone and they have no obligation to me.

 

[PratchettFan]

No he doesn't.

A person does not have to do anything for anyone unless he chooses to.

If that makes you feel better, then please continue with your delusion. I mean while you continue to use the roads,

Which i pay for via my taxes


Which I pay for via my electric bill and taxes


I have my own well and do not use town water

Both which I pay for



Language? really? What do I owe people for language? What do I have to do for other people because i speak the same language?

and pretty much everything in your life you use to stay alive - all the product of that society you owe nothing to

None of those things are given to me by so called "society"

paid for by pieces of paper which have value only because that society says it does. You are an independent individual standing on your own!

Living by the rules of a society does not obligate one to that society. I have absolutely no obligation to "society" other than to obey the laws. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything or give anything to anyone and they have no obligation to me.

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

 

[Oddball]

If that makes you feel better, then please continue with your delusion. I mean while you continue to use the roads,

Which i pay for via my taxes


Which I pay for via my electric bill and taxes


I have my own well and do not use town water

Both which I pay for



Language? really? What do I owe people for language? What do I have to do for other people because i speak the same language?


None of those things are given to me by so called "society"

paid for by pieces of paper which have value only because that society says it does. You are an independent individual standing on your own!

Living by the rules of a society does not obligate one to that society. I have absolutely no obligation to "society" other than to obey the laws. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything or give anything to anyone and they have no obligation to me.

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

Ah..."Society" of by and for compulsion, at gunpoint if necessary...How neanderthal.

Sounds like a twisted religious cult more than anything else.

 

[Oddball]

"There is no such thing as society. There are only individuals"​

said the Objectivist Libertarian in the language invented by no single individual but that was developed over time though the intercourse of the millions of individuals that comprised that society that he believed did not exist.

Quantify "society", Mr. Forgot-it-all.

Can I put it in a wheelbarrow?...A pickup truck?...A semi?...A friggin' aircraft carrier?

 

[MisterBeale]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p2SpckZ6uPs#!"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p2SpckZ6uPs#![/ame]​

 

[Skull Pilot]

If that makes you feel better, then please continue with your delusion. I mean while you continue to use the roads,

Which i pay for via my taxes


Which I pay for via my electric bill and taxes


I have my own well and do not use town water

Both which I pay for



Language? really? What do I owe people for language? What do I have to do for other people because i speak the same language?


None of those things are given to me by so called "society"

paid for by pieces of paper which have value only because that society says it does. You are an independent individual standing on your own!

Living by the rules of a society does not obligate one to that society. I have absolutely no obligation to "society" other than to obey the laws. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything or give anything to anyone and they have no obligation to me.

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

There are still other ways to pay for things. I still barter for some things. I plow for friends who hunt in exchange for fresh game meat. I barter with some people for contracting services like carpentry or plumbing.

"Society" has nothing to do with that.

And As i said the only obligation I have is to obey the law. Period.

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

I owe nothing to anyone. Anything I got from "society" was paid for by the taxes I pay as required by law. I will go so far as to say I pay far more in taxes than I receive in services from "society".

 

[Oddball]

"There is no such thing as society. There are only individuals"​

said the Objectivist Libertarian in the language invented by no single individual but that was developed over time though the intercourse of the millions of individuals that comprised that society that he believed did not exist.

Quantify "society", Mr. Forgot-it-all.

Can I put it in a wheelbarrow?...A pickup truck?...A semi?...A friggin' aircraft carrier?

What is the size of this "society"?...What is its weight?...What color is it?...Does it have a smell?...Where can I find it, so I can inquire if what you and others claim about it is true or not?

Speaking of inventions.......

 

[PratchettFan]

Which i pay for via my taxes


Which I pay for via my electric bill and taxes


I have my own well and do not use town water

Both which I pay for



Language? really? What do I owe people for language? What do I have to do for other people because i speak the same language?


None of those things are given to me by so called "society"



Living by the rules of a society does not obligate one to that society. I have absolutely no obligation to "society" other than to obey the laws. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything or give anything to anyone and they have no obligation to me.

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

Ah..."Society" of by and for compulsion, at gunpoint if necessary...How neanderthal.

Sounds like a twisted religious cult more than anything else.

No. Just human. You can believe otherwise if you please. You can believe you can fly by flapping your arms if you please. But reality is reality, whether you please or not.

 

[Oddball]

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

Ah..."Society" of by and for compulsion, at gunpoint if necessary...How neanderthal.

Sounds like a twisted religious cult more than anything else.

No. Just human. You can believe otherwise if you please. You can believe you can fly by flapping your arms if you please. But reality is reality, whether you please or not.

Oh, so you're defining being human as bullying anyone and everyone into going along with your notion of what constitutes this "society" thingy.....Might as well stick with the neanderthal thing, if it's workin' for ya.

 

[PratchettFan]

Which i pay for via my taxes


Which I pay for via my electric bill and taxes


I have my own well and do not use town water

Both which I pay for



Language? really? What do I owe people for language? What do I have to do for other people because i speak the same language?


None of those things are given to me by so called "society"



Living by the rules of a society does not obligate one to that society. I have absolutely no obligation to "society" other than to obey the laws. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything or give anything to anyone and they have no obligation to me.

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

There are still other ways to pay for things. I still barter for some things. I plow for friends who hunt in exchange for fresh game meat. I barter with some people for contracting services like carpentry or plumbing.

"Society" has nothing to do with that.

And As i said the only obligation I have is to obey the law. Period.

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

I owe nothing to anyone. Anything I got from "society" was paid for by the taxes I pay as required by law. I will go so far as to say I pay far more in taxes than I receive in services from "society".

Plow with what? A stick? Hunt with what? A rock? Wearing what? Skins from the animal you killed with the rock? You take so much for granted you don't even see it. And I would really like to see you barter for electricity from the power company. That would be entertaining.

You pay your taxes - as required by law. Do try to wrap your mind around the phrase "require by law". That means your obligated. You can think you're not, but that changes nothing.

 

[PratchettFan]

Ah..."Society" of by and for compulsion, at gunpoint if necessary...How neanderthal.

Sounds like a twisted religious cult more than anything else.

No. Just human. You can believe otherwise if you please. You can believe you can fly by flapping your arms if you please. But reality is reality, whether you please or not.

Oh, so you're defining being human as bullying anyone and everyone into going along with your notion of what constitutes this "society" thingy.....Might as well stick with the neanderthal thing, if it's workin' for ya.

Whatever delusion gets you by.