True or false: any personal freedom that brings harm to society in general should...

[Billy000]

Gotta love an honest liberal.

Comes right out in the open and says he's against freedom.

And probably half the Constitution.

Gotta love an honest conservative.

Comes right out and says he sees any political ideology in black and white terms.

choices; freedom or tyranny

I choose freedom you chose tyranny


Pick any color you want, you picked tyranny over freedom.

Yeah that's it. I love me some tryranny. I eat it every morning by the mouthful. I make freedom my *****.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one on this page has given anyone of sound mind and reason to adopt libertarian reasoning.

The philosophy is a sham.

 

[PratchettFan]

No one on this page has given anyone of sound mind and reason to adopt libertarian reasoning.

The philosophy is a sham.

All philosophy is a sham. But I will agree that libertarianism is a particularly childish sham.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

There are still other ways to pay for things. I still barter for some things. I plow for friends who hunt in exchange for fresh game meat. I barter with some people for contracting services like carpentry or plumbing.

"Society" has nothing to do with that.

And As i said the only obligation I have is to obey the law. Period.

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

I owe nothing to anyone. Anything I got from "society" was paid for by the taxes I pay as required by law. I will go so far as to say I pay far more in taxes than I receive in services from "society".

Plow with what? A stick? Hunt with what? A rock? Wearing what? Skins from the animal you killed with the rock? You take so much for granted you don't even see it. And I would really like to see you barter for electricity from the power company. That would be entertaining.

You pay your taxes - as required by law. Do try to wrap your mind around the phrase "require by law". That means your obligated. You can think you're not, but that changes nothing.

I am not obligated to obey the law. I can disobey the law if I choose. In fact I disobey laws all the time.

I regularly drive over the posted speed limit.


And "society" did not give me my truck or my plow. "Society" did not invent the internal combustion engine. "Society" does not produce anything. Individuals do.

 

[Uncensored2008]

$2.00? Based on what logic?

Risk/Reward.

Prohibition drives the price up because of the risk involved in smuggling.

If an addicting substance was in high demand, the cost would still be ridiculous.

That must be why an iPhone cost $10,000 - there is high demand.

Oh wait, the damned things are free (and still less value than an Android) with a contract. Guess your theory fails...

Yeah adulterants that would make it more addicting.

Hard to say. But legal drugs would be subject to health and quality controls.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Most of the inventors in history have been INTJs, which makes your argument that we, whoever you think we is, are social even more absurd.

Nunh-UNHHHH

The GLORIOUS PEOPLES COLLECTIVE invented the light bulb, not that capitalist pig Thomas Edison, who stated that he invented because he wanted to be rich...

Just pick up Zinn's rewrite of history, it says so right there....

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Actually, it does obligate you whether you wish to admit it or not. Your are not forced to give more than the law requires you to give, but the law does require you to give. You don't get to live here for free. You obey the laws either by choice or by force, but you are obligated to obey them nonetheless. You talk about paying for things, but how do you pay for them if not through the forms allowed you by society?

There are still other ways to pay for things. I still barter for some things. I plow for friends who hunt in exchange for fresh game meat. I barter with some people for contracting services like carpentry or plumbing.

"Society" has nothing to do with that.

And As i said the only obligation I have is to obey the law. Period.

Without society you are just a hairless ape digging for grubs and trying to keep from getting eaten. Anything beyond that status you owe to society. If need be, you owe your life to society. You can either accept that reality or you can have it forced upon you. Either way comes out the same.

I owe nothing to anyone. Anything I got from "society" was paid for by the taxes I pay as required by law. I will go so far as to say I pay far more in taxes than I receive in services from "society".

Plow with what? A stick? Hunt with what? A rock? Wearing what? Skins from the animal you killed with the rock? You take so much for granted you don't even see it. And I would really like to see you barter for electricity from the power company. That would be entertaining.

You pay your taxes - as required by law. Do try to wrap your mind around the phrase "require by law". That means your obligated. You can think you're not, but that changes nothing.

Society is now responsible for the production of goods?

Heaven help us.

 

[Oddball]

No one on this page has given anyone of sound mind and reason to adopt libertarian reasoning.

The philosophy is a sham.

You don't have a sound mind, so your opinion as to what constitutes reason to one is irrelevant.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

No one on this page has given anyone of sound mind and reason to adopt libertarian reasoning.

The philosophy is a sham.

All philosophy is a sham. But I will agree that libertarianism is a particularly childish sham.

All philosophy is a sham?

Congratulations. You've achieved the surreal.

 

[Oddball]

No. Just human. You can believe otherwise if you please. You can believe you can fly by flapping your arms if you please. But reality is reality, whether you please or not.

Oh, so you're defining being human as bullying anyone and everyone into going along with your notion of what constitutes this "society" thingy.....Might as well stick with the neanderthal thing, if it's workin' for ya.

Whatever delusion gets you by.

"Society" is a delusion, pal.

 

[Oddball]

What is the size of this "society"?...What is its weight?...What color is it?...Does it have a smell?...Where can I find it, so I can inquire if what you and others claim about it is true or not?

Anyone?

Beuller?

 

[Uncensored2008]

pfft. non sequiteur indeed.
and the fact is, thank god we are civilised and dont have to live in the "natural state"
so moot point starkey, try again.
australia is a society of equals,

Or so we are told by the Aborigines...

Another leftist, another load of pure bullshit...

 

[boedicca]

"There is no such thing as society. There are only individuals"​

said the Objectivist Libertarian in the language invented by no single individual but that was developed over time though the intercourse of the millions of individuals that comprised that society that he believed did not exist.

Quantify "society", Mr. Forgot-it-all.

Can I put it in a wheelbarrow?...A pickup truck?...A semi?...A friggin' aircraft carrier?

What is the size of this "society"?...What is its weight?...What color is it?...Does it have a smell?...Where can I find it, so I can inquire if what you and others claim about it is true or not?

Speaking of inventions.......

Society is the Great Mother Spirit Eywa through which we are are all harnessed into one big planetary computer.

 

[bripat9643]

No one on this page has given anyone of sound mind and reason to adopt libertarian reasoning.

The philosophy is a sham.

How would you identify anyone "of sound mind and reason?" That would require you to possess those qualities yourself.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So are resident libertarians believe "philosophy" and "society" are shams.

Such primeval minds, they. Does anyone doubt they will remain in the small minority in this country?

 

[PratchettFan]

There are still other ways to pay for things. I still barter for some things. I plow for friends who hunt in exchange for fresh game meat. I barter with some people for contracting services like carpentry or plumbing.

"Society" has nothing to do with that.

And As i said the only obligation I have is to obey the law. Period.





I owe nothing to anyone. Anything I got from "society" was paid for by the taxes I pay as required by law. I will go so far as to say I pay far more in taxes than I receive in services from "society".

Plow with what? A stick? Hunt with what? A rock? Wearing what? Skins from the animal you killed with the rock? You take so much for granted you don't even see it. And I would really like to see you barter for electricity from the power company. That would be entertaining.

You pay your taxes - as required by law. Do try to wrap your mind around the phrase "require by law". That means your obligated. You can think you're not, but that changes nothing.

I am not obligated to obey the law. I can disobey the law if I choose. In fact I disobey laws all the time.

I regularly drive over the posted speed limit.


And "society" did not give me my truck or my plow. "Society" did not invent the internal combustion engine. "Society" does not produce anything. Individuals do.

Yes. You can disobey the law and even get away with it if you are not caught. If you are caught then the courts will be happy to explain the concept of obligation to you.

You did not make your truck or your plow. No individual did. It is only through the cooperation of individuals (you know, what we call "society") where those things are possible. It is only because of the interaction of transportation systems, communications, monetary transfer systems, that any of that is possible. I understand you don't want to see that as it interferes with some kind of internal fantasy, but that too changes nothing. If you live in this society, take advantage of its benefits, then you are obligated to it. You can either accept that as a moral understanding, like a grownup, or you can have it forced on you, like a child. Either way works for me.

 

[Oddball]

So are resident libertarians believe "philosophy" and "society" are shams.

Nobody is saying that, dimwit.

What has been said is that they are entirely non-corporeal and subjective....They don't exist anywhere but in the "mind" (for lack of a better term in your case) of the person conjuring up what they are.

 

[PratchettFan]

No one on this page has given anyone of sound mind and reason to adopt libertarian reasoning.

The philosophy is a sham.

All philosophy is a sham. But I will agree that libertarianism is a particularly childish sham.

All philosophy is a sham?

Congratulations. You've achieved the surreal.

Quite the opposite. I have acheived the real. Philosophers are lucky. They have no responsibility to implement their ideas. They can ignore the simple fact that it is all about human beings and human beings do not fit into neat little boxes. Philosophy is always very clean and simple, humans are messy and complicated.

 

[Oddball]

All philosophy is a sham. But I will agree that libertarianism is a particularly childish sham.

All philosophy is a sham?

Congratulations. You've achieved the surreal.

Quite the opposite. I have acheived the real. Philosophers are lucky. They have no responsibility to implement their ideas. They can ignore the simple fact that it is all about human beings and human beings do not fit into neat little boxes. Philosophy is always very clean and simple, humans are messy and complicated.

What an outstanding rationalization for knuckle-dragging rule of the mob!

Kudos!

 

[FA_Q2]

Plow with what? A stick? Hunt with what? A rock? Wearing what? Skins from the animal you killed with the rock? You take so much for granted you don't even see it. And I would really like to see you barter for electricity from the power company. That would be entertaining.

You pay your taxes - as required by law. Do try to wrap your mind around the phrase "require by law". That means your obligated. You can think you're not, but that changes nothing.

I am not obligated to obey the law. I can disobey the law if I choose. In fact I disobey laws all the time.

I regularly drive over the posted speed limit.


And "society" did not give me my truck or my plow. "Society" did not invent the internal combustion engine. "Society" does not produce anything. Individuals do.

Yes. You can disobey the law and even get away with it if you are not caught. If you are caught then the courts will be happy to explain the concept of obligation to you.

You did not make your truck or your plow. No individual did. It is only through the cooperation of individuals (you know, what we call "society") where those things are possible. It is only because of the interaction of transportation systems, communications, monetary transfer systems, that any of that is possible. I understand you don't want to see that as it interferes with some kind of internal fantasy, but that too changes nothing. If you live in this society, take advantage of its benefits, then you are obligated to it. You can either accept that as a moral understanding, like a grownup, or you can have it forced on you, like a child. Either way works for me.

‘Obligation’ is not the right word. You freely choose to participate in society and pay for that participation through various means. By demanding that we are obligated, you are essentially saying that there is no options here. I am not obligated as I can leave. I can join another society or leave this one for solitude.

By declaring that ‘society’ gives us the things that we have you are also obscuring the reality here. Society most certainly did not give him the plow – he purchased it and not from society either but from an individual. Society is simply the name of the engine. People are the benefactors here. Society creates nothing and does nothing, the people working together in that society do.