Trickle-Up Recession: The 1% Getting Real About the Permanent Fix for the Economy

[g5000]

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work.

Well, lookee here! Silhouette is calling for the government to set manufacturing and labor controls on the market! Centralized planning.

Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD.

Well, lookee here! Silhouette is calling for labor protectionism!

And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month.

Well, lookee here! Silhouette is calling for single payer health care.


Have I ever mentioned how much the Gnu Right reminds me of the Old Left of the 70s?

 

[g5000]

I think we need the government to ensure horse-and-buggy jobs because these damned automobiles are going to put a lot of workers out of business.

 

[bendog]

I think we need the government to ensure horse-and-buggy jobs because these damned automobiles are going to put a lot of workers out of business.

I agree, yet we allowed textile to be outsourced to child and prison labor, and to countries that not only prevent unions by use of the state but don't even provide basic workers' comp.

And it's both parties. And if one objects, the Wal-Mart mom shoppers will not vote for him.

 

[g5000]

I think we need the government to ensure horse-and-buggy jobs because these damned automobiles are going to put a lot of workers out of business.

I agree, yet we allowed textile to be outsourced to child and prison labor, and to countries that not only prevent unions by use of the state but don't even provide basic workers' comp.

And it's both parties. And if one objects, the Wal-Mart mom shoppers will not vote for him.

Did you know our biggest industry at the beginning was textiles? And we stole the technology from England.

Every developing nation, including ours, has used child labor. They have all, including ours, killed a lot of people in coal mines. They have all, including ours, had atrocious safety standards, if any.

That's why they are called "developing" nations.

But they will not ever get beyond the developing stage if we keep holding them down. Those countries are better off than they were before they had those textile mills. Way better off. Their child mortality is radically dropping.

Textiles are old, low tech. Those jobs SHOULD be outsourced. Our economy is not going to keep growing by sticking with outdated, obsolete industries.

We grow because our greatest strength is innovation. And we need to keep innovating and educating our kids for the jobs of tomorrow, not to be piecework shirtmakers or automaker assembly workers.

 

[Andylusion]

I'm not saying the French Revolution was great or that I would welcome it again. It's just that the rich and arrogant have very short memories...or the inability to read...or skipped history class or something. The elite in France in the Pre-Revolutionary tipping point (a point I believe we are near now, in part with help from our enemies manipulating the economy), failed to assimilate the idea that their wealth was directly tied to the middle class' ability to buy goods and sundries. "If they have no bread, let them eat cake" meant that to the shrinking middle class, the rich were so completely detached from empathy...so completely ignorant of the true struggle the 99% go through every day, that it was infuriating to the boiling point.

My points here being: Do something before it comes to the boiling point. First step: Universal healthcare + higher tariffs on imports manufactured abroad = more jobs. Of course the 1% will temporarily have to do with only 10 mansions, 10 yachts etc. etc. until the middle class is rebuilt and their purchasing power to buy the rich's goods is restored. But I hardly think any of the 1% will even notice that moment in time. How much money does one man need anyway to feel rested and relaxed on a daily basis? A fraction would do for a short time. That's all it would take. In 10 years we could rebuild the American economy fat enough for the 1% to begin really raping good and strong again. Even frat boys have to take a rest from partying and clean up the house before the next party..

First, it's not the wealthy people's job, to make you happy. Nearly all the wealthy, are wealthy because they worked for it. Unlike the French aristocracy, the wealthy of America, are wealthy because they earned it. And I'm sorry, but the one or two counter examples, do not prove the claim.....Second, even France at the time of the revolution, was one of the leading economies of the world. They destroyed themselves. It's not the rich and wealthy's job to prevent you from destroying yourself....Third, those things you just listed, will destroy the country. You claim we haven't read history, and then prove you yourself have not.
You are not going to win this battle. You will lose. Better to wake up yourself, and get your butt work. Stop whining about what others have, and get you some yourself.

First, it's the wealthy who need to realize their own portfolios are in danger in a shrinking economy...which is shrinking for all the reasons I've brought up..

Second, the French economy was destroyed by the excesses and endless warring of the elite classes to expand their endless lust for their version of "Manifest Destiny". Everyone belonged to the French economy in France. The elite, as always, were the last ones to feel the brutal impact of their own excesses.

Third, there is no battle, only an American economy in peril. It's hard to get one's butt to work when all the jobs have either been shipped overseas or undercut by hiring illegal aliens..or in industries that were T-boned by reckless schemes on Wallstreet. I guarantee I work harder than you and have all my life. I've got a beat up body, healed broken bones and scars to prove it. And all in a field that until 2008 was doing just fine until the swine on Wallstreet gutted my industry. I'm not alone. I've got lots and lots of company and we all are living what's coming your way sooner or later. Have fun playing pretend in the meantime..

AGAIN..... The wealthy are in no danger of anything. I personally have tons of money invested over seas. If the entire US economy goes in the trash, I'll still have a pretty good size portfolio.

Now if I have that, then I promise you, the wealthy are far more diversified than I am. The wealthy are going to be just fine.

The only question is whether YOU and the poor are going to be fine. Two options.... you can allow everyone to grow together.... or the rich can grow their wealth alone.

If you try and hurt them, you are only going to harm yourself.

Ironically, the socialist government in France today, has ruined the country again, and just recently declared an "economic emergency".

France Declares State of Economic Emergency

The left-wing ideology constantly ruins itself. This is just yet another example.

And people have been telling me... "oh your doomed.... you just wait.... it's coming!".... for 10 years..... actually longer.

And yet... somehow I've always managed to find work. Huh. Maybe it's because instead whining... I'm working? Could be..... Just a thought.

 

[g5000]

AGAIN..... The wealthy are in no danger of anything. I personally have tons of money invested over seas. If the entire US economy goes in the trash, I'll still have a pretty good size portfolio.

The French aristocracy had a lot of money stashed out of the country, too. Fat lot of good it did them as they rode in a cheap cart to the guillotine.

 

[Andylusion]

I'm not saying the French Revolution was great or that I would welcome it again. It's just that the rich and arrogant have very short memories...or the inability to read...or skipped history class or something. The elite in France in the Pre-Revolutionary tipping point (a point I believe we are near now, in part with help from our enemies manipulating the economy), failed to assimilate the idea that their wealth was directly tied to the middle class' ability to buy goods and sundries. "If they have no bread, let them eat cake" meant that to the shrinking middle class, the rich were so completely detached from empathy...so completely ignorant of the true struggle the 99% go through every day, that it was infuriating to the boiling point.

My points here being: Do something before it comes to the boiling point. First step: Universal healthcare + higher tariffs on imports manufactured abroad = more jobs. Of course the 1% will temporarily have to do with only 10 mansions, 10 yachts etc. etc. until the middle class is rebuilt and their purchasing power to buy the rich's goods is restored. But I hardly think any of the 1% will even notice that moment in time. How much money does one man need anyway to feel rested and relaxed on a daily basis? A fraction would do for a short time. That's all it would take. In 10 years we could rebuild the American economy fat enough for the 1% to begin really raping good and strong again. Even frat boys have to take a rest from partying and clean up the house before the next party..

First, it's not the wealthy people's job, to make you happy. Nearly all the wealthy, are wealthy because they worked for it. Unlike the French aristocracy, the wealthy of America, are wealthy because they earned it. And I'm sorry, but the one or two counter examples, do not prove the claim.....Second, even France at the time of the revolution, was one of the leading economies of the world. They destroyed themselves. It's not the rich and wealthy's job to prevent you from destroying yourself....Third, those things you just listed, will destroy the country. You claim we haven't read history, and then prove you yourself have not.
You are not going to win this battle. You will lose. Better to wake up yourself, and get your butt work. Stop whining about what others have, and get you some yourself.

First, it's the wealthy who need to realize their own portfolios are in danger in a shrinking economy...which is shrinking for all the reasons I've brought up..

Second, the French economy was destroyed by the excesses and endless warring of the elite classes to expand their endless lust for their version of "Manifest Destiny". Everyone belonged to the French economy in France. The elite, as always, were the last ones to feel the brutal impact of their own excesses.

Third, there is no battle, only an American economy in peril. It's hard to get one's butt to work when all the jobs have either been shipped overseas or undercut by hiring illegal aliens..or in industries that were T-boned by reckless schemes on Wallstreet. I guarantee I work harder than you and have all my life. I've got a beat up body, healed broken bones and scars to prove it. And all in a field that until 2008 was doing just fine until the swine on Wallstreet gutted my industry. I'm not alone. I've got lots and lots of company and we all are living what's coming your way sooner or later. Have fun playing pretend in the meantime..

You just don't seem capable of getting it.

You NEED the rich people. Need them very badly to create the industry you say we need....and we do need it.

But then how do morons like you ask for it? You demonize them, tell them they're horrible people, they need to die off so someone can do something useful with their money. And THEN you expect them to do something for you?

So they have to get buy being worth only a few hundred million instead of a few billion and don't have to deal with ungrateful wretches like you? Hell I'd call that a win.

Well no, he get's that.... it's just that in the leftwing mythical world.... the rich need us, more than we need the rich.

And the left-wing MUST believe that myth, because that's the only way they can think that cramming their policies down the wealthy's throats, and they'll just make more jobs and more wealth, and make the country great.... will work.

What they refuse to believe, is that the rich really don't need us, as much as we need the rich.

They can leave. They can open up a business in the UK, Canada, Mexico even, Europe, even Asia.... and ditch the US like a bad habit. People do it all the time.

Now they still operate in the US, ONLY because we haven't screwed them over completely. But every year, we hear more socialist crap, and moving more towards that, and all we need to do is look at the "economic emergency" in France to see what our future is.

France created a "wealth tax" of 75%. The result was all the rich packed up and started leaving, taking their companies and jobs, and wealth with them. France panicked, and canceled the wealth tax before it was enacted, but still the mass migration away from the high taxes continues even now.

Every single country that has attempted to punish the rich, has ended up with the rich leaving, and the country devastated.

If the idiots get control of America, the same will happen here.

 

[Silhouette]

Well no, he get's that.... it's just that in the leftwing mythical world.... the rich need us, more than we need the rich.

And the left-wing MUST believe that myth, because that's the only way they can think that cramming their policies down the wealthy's throats,

Stop misquoting me to fit your narrative. 1. I'm not on the left. Read some of my threads. 2. I said we are INTERDEPENDENT both the rich and working classes. You create jobs for us, we consume the products you sell. You are trying to divorce yourself wholly from the working class. And that is impossible, as your snakeskin portfolio will one day tell you. You still "see" a snake lying there in your bank accounts. But in reality it is wiggling free and backing away without your knowledge. One day you will go to grab it and your hand will go right through it. But until then, you will believe that the rich are separate and independent of the working class.

 

[Andylusion]

Well no, he get's that.... it's just that in the leftwing mythical world.... the rich need us, more than we need the rich.

And the left-wing MUST believe that myth, because that's the only way they can think that cramming their policies down the wealthy's throats,

Stop misquoting me to fit your narrative. 1. I'm not on the left. Read some of my threads. 2. I said we are INTERDEPENDENT both the rich and working classes. You create jobs for us, we consume the products you sell. You are trying to divorce yourself wholly from the working class. And that is impossible, as your snakeskin portfolio will one day tell you. You still "see" a snake lying there in your bank accounts. But in reality it is wiggling free and backing away without your knowledge. One day you will go to grab it and your hand will go right through it. But until then, you will believe that the rich are separate and independent of the working class.

I had thought that I had seen you making more right-wing arguments in the past.

That said, you in this thread have promoted a purely left-wing argument.

In fact, even the "class warfare" verbage you are using, is left-wing.

Right-wing there is no "working-class". Everyone works. The CEO of my last company, came in at 6 AM every morning, and was the last person to leave the company at night. First one there, last one to leave.

And there is ALWAYS people to buy product. I was reading about a company started up in China in the 80s. China had billions of people earning a whooping $2 a day. So in your theory, they certainly shouldn't have any wealthy people making billions of dollars... right? Who can buy the product?

Here's what happened.... a guy started collecting corrugated metal sheets from junk yards. He then cleaned them up, and sold them as metal roofing. With the money he earned he purchased better metal roofs, and sold those.

Now he is a billionaire, selling to people who by our standards are in poverty.

Here's what's going to happen. If you screw over the rich, they'll simply find someone else to sell to. There is always someone else to sell to.

If you ruin this country so incomes fall, then GM will make cheaper crappy cars, that people can afford.

The rich will simply make lesser products that you can afford at your new lower standard of living.

They will win.... you will lose.

They will always win. Always. Guarantee it.

 

[Silhouette]

Your lack of empathy is apparent. At least you're owning it..

 

[Silhouette]

The rich will simply make lesser products that you can afford at your new lower standard of living.

They will win.... you will lose.

They will always win. Always. Guarantee it.

What exactly is it they "win"? Please be as specific as you can in your answer.

 

[9aces]

AGAIN..... The wealthy are in no danger of anything. I personally have tons of money invested over seas. If the entire US economy goes in the trash, I'll still have a pretty good size portfolio.

The French aristocracy had a lot of money stashed out of the country, too. Fat lot of good it did them as they rode in a cheap cart to the guillotine.

Well they have private jets these days, so I don't expect you'd see too many not with a drink with an umbrella in it on some beach if it looks like things are going south.

 

[Silhouette]

AGAIN..... The wealthy are in no danger of anything. I personally have tons of money invested over seas. If the entire US economy goes in the trash, I'll still have a pretty good size portfolio.

The French aristocracy had a lot of money stashed out of the country, too. Fat lot of good it did them as they rode in a cheap cart to the guillotine.

Well they have private jets these days, so I don't expect you'd see too many not with a drink with an umbrella in it on some beach if it looks like things are going south.

Rape and run.... Gotta love the 1% completely anti-patriotic mentality. Of course in the old days the nation was quite familiar with some folks who took advantage of the Union and attempted to undermine her in similar fashion. "Anti-patriotic" is the same as "seditious" and they knew how to take care of the problem really quick and without fuss.

I'm not suggesting the treacherous anti-American 1% be thrown in prison for life or strung up by their silk neckties. I'm merely suggesting imposing stiff tariffs on their imported goods using overseas labor (gutting American jobs/the economy by extension) and very stiff fines if any of them are caught stateside hiring illegals. Every business owner knows about overhead. It's time they pay the normal amount like everyone else has to in order to support our country's economy. Just because other countries have OK'd legal slavery doesn't mean this one has to. If the 1% want the 99% to consume their goods, they'd better make sure they're able to.

Pure capitalism with morality used to work. Pure capitalism without morality is destroying our country. Either mandate going to church on Sunday for all the 1% or impose tariffs. Maybe that's the solution?

 

[Andylusion]

Your lack of empathy is apparent. At least you're owning it..

Empathy in business, doesn't work. Why? Because *YOU* the customer, do not exercise empathy. When I was in high school, there was a grocery store chain called "Big Bear". You can look them up if you want.

They paid pretty good wages for an entry level job. I specifically went to Big Bear, because it paid more than the other stores. Today Big Bear doesn't exist. Why? Because the other stores had the same products at a cheaper price.

Likely because they paid slightly lower wages than Big Bear. *YOU* the customers, went to the cheaper store. Where was your empathy? Why didn't you pay a higher price, so that those employees could be paid a higher price?

The company that operates based on empathy, ends up out of business. And all those employees that you 'empathized' with, are now unemployed earning ZERO. That's where your empathy leads.

Let me tell you about real empathy. I knew a girl, whose worthless scum sucking mother, divorced her husband, and shacked up with a boyfriend. This boy friend tried to get into this girls panties. When she refused, she came home from college, she found the boy friend had caught her pet cat, cut it into bits, and strung the bits to the ceiling of her bed room.

Since that time, I have supported with regular charitable giving, programs that help run away girls, and abused girls, to give them a safe place to live, job training if needed, and counseling. That's where empathy comes into play.

The rich will simply make lesser products that you can afford at your new lower standard of living.

They will win.... you will lose.

They will always win. Always. Guarantee it.

What exactly is it they "win"? Please be as specific as you can in your answer.

They will be successful and more wealthy. I can't be more specific, because how they win is drastically different between any individual. The wealthy of Cuba, setup businesses in the US, and remained wealthy, while Cuba became a 3rd world country. They won.... the Cuba socialists lost.

The wealthy of Russia, have fled Putin, and ended up setting up business in the UK.

They won, Russia lost.

The wealthy of Venezuela, over a million of them in a country of only 30 Million, left the country to create business in Colombia, or the US, or else where.

They won... Chavez and his soak the rich socialists lost.

Investment is like water flowing down to the best area to pool. If you make the US less profitable, because of taxes, regulations, protectionism, labor laws, and so on.... then the water will simply flow somewhere else, and they will have the jobs, the wealth, and the growth.

And again, killing the rich... if you want to identify yourself with murders... ok.... but that still doesn't make you wealthy. Russia, before the soviets got control, was an exporter of food. After they killed off all the rich and wealthy, who knew how to make the business work... they were on the brink of starvation.

Wealth is dynamic. Not static. You steal a expensive luxury car from a wealthy person, and "redistribute the wealth" to a poor person, who can't take care of it, or afford the gas, or pay for maintenance... Pretty soon, that car is a $3,000 beater.

When Che got control of Cuba, he is supposed to have called in the owner of the sugar cane plantations, and asked him to run the plantations under the communists. Even Che knew that the wealthy were the ones who knew how to make the business work. The man told Che off, and turned his back on him (surprised the benevolent doctor didn't kill him like he did everyone else), and left for the US. The sugar cane crops quickly fell, just like the rest of Cuba's economy.

Again, the wealthy win.... Che and Cuba lost.

 

[Andylusion]

AGAIN..... The wealthy are in no danger of anything. I personally have tons of money invested over seas. If the entire US economy goes in the trash, I'll still have a pretty good size portfolio.

The French aristocracy had a lot of money stashed out of the country, too. Fat lot of good it did them as they rode in a cheap cart to the guillotine.

Well they have private jets these days, so I don't expect you'd see too many not with a drink with an umbrella in it on some beach if it looks like things are going south.

Rape and run.... Gotta love the 1% completely anti-patriotic mentality. Of course in the old days the nation was quite familiar with some folks who took advantage of the Union and attempted to undermine her in similar fashion. "Anti-patriotic" is the same as "seditious" and they knew how to take care of the problem really quick and without fuss.

I'm not suggesting the treacherous anti-American 1% be thrown in prison for life or strung up by their silk neckties. I'm merely suggesting imposing stiff tariffs on their imported goods using overseas labor (gutting American jobs/the economy by extension) and very stiff fines if any of them are caught stateside hiring illegals. Every business owner knows about overhead. It's time they pay the normal amount like everyone else has to in order to support our country's economy. Just because other countries have OK'd legal slavery doesn't mean this one has to. If the 1% want the 99% to consume their goods, they'd better make sure they're able to.

Pure capitalism with morality used to work. Pure capitalism without morality is destroying our country. Either mandate going to church on Sunday for all the 1% or impose tariffs. Maybe that's the solution?

Here we go... the "patriotic" claim. You do realize you are using an argument that is exactly the same that an abusive husband makes to his battered beaten wife?

You can't leave... you have to stay and take me kicking and beating, and punching you.... because if you leave you are not loyal to the family!

You rich people can't leave the country! You have to stay and take us attacking, taxing, insulting, accusing, and regulating you into poverty..... because if you leave you are unpatriotic!

Patriotism is not a defacto given. I'm only patriotic, as long as the country I'm from is worth the patriotism. The moment it becomes something that isn't worthy of patriotism, I won't be patriotic anymore.

It's like asking why so many Jews were being so unpatriotic about Germany, and leaving in the 1930s. I just don't understand those unpatriotic jews! Why are they deserting their country?

And ironically, the rationals the Nazis used to justify attacking the Jews, is almost identically to the rationals you are using to attack the rich in this argument.

 

[Silhouette]

Your lack of empathy is apparent. At least you're owning it..

Empathy in business, doesn't work. Why? Because *YOU* the customer, do not exercise empathy. When I was in high school, there was a grocery store chain called "Big Bear". You can look them up if you want.

They paid pretty good wages for an entry level job. I specifically went to Big Bear, because it paid more than the other stores. Today Big Bear doesn't exist. Why? Because the other stores had the same products at a cheaper price.

I did the same thing until the economy tanked and I was forced to choose between buying slightly more expensive milk and paying the phone bill... I didn't create those conditions of "amorality". The 1% did on Wallstreet. Own your shit.

 

[9aces]

Your lack of empathy is apparent. At least you're owning it..

Empathy in business, doesn't work. Why? Because *YOU* the customer, do not exercise empathy. When I was in high school, there was a grocery store chain called "Big Bear". You can look them up if you want.

They paid pretty good wages for an entry level job. I specifically went to Big Bear, because it paid more than the other stores. Today Big Bear doesn't exist. Why? Because the other stores had the same products at a cheaper price.

I did the same thing until the economy tanked and I was forced to choose between buying slightly more expensive milk and paying the phone bill... I didn't create those conditions of "amorality". The 1% did on Wallstreet. Own your shit.

The 1% didn't create this. The 99% wanting to be able to do more with less did.

Supply...demand. Neither knows nor cares about your perception of what is moral, or what is not.

 

[Silhouette]

The 1% didn't create this. The 99% wanting to be able to do more with less did.

Supply...demand. Neither knows nor cares about your perception of what is moral, or what is not.

Who created the "with less" part of the statement you just made?

 

[Andylusion]

Your lack of empathy is apparent. At least you're owning it..

Empathy in business, doesn't work. Why? Because *YOU* the customer, do not exercise empathy. When I was in high school, there was a grocery store chain called "Big Bear". You can look them up if you want.

They paid pretty good wages for an entry level job. I specifically went to Big Bear, because it paid more than the other stores. Today Big Bear doesn't exist. Why? Because the other stores had the same products at a cheaper price.

I did the same thing until the economy tanked and I was forced to choose between buying slightly more expensive milk and paying the phone bill... I didn't create those conditions of "amorality". The 1% did on Wallstreet. Own your shit.

Can I blame you for stuff, without any evidence supporting it? It's your fault I lost my job in 2010. Own your sh!t.

By the way, I went two years without phone service, because I didn't have money to pay for it. It's your fault.

 

[Andylusion]

The 1% didn't create this. The 99% wanting to be able to do more with less did.

Supply...demand. Neither knows nor cares about your perception of what is moral, or what is not.

Who created the "with less" part of the statement you just made?

You people did. You created this. Everything that has happened is your fault. Is that the exact same level of argument you have trying to blame the rich? Is that argument only valid when you use it, and no one else?