Trickle-Up Recession: The 1% Getting Real About the Permanent Fix for the Economy

[Silhouette]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car.

Link?

 

[Siete]

it doesn't make a damn what the economy has done during a Democrats 2 terms in office .. the whining RW's see it entirely different, facts be damned.

Obama lied, branded deep in the heart and soul of simpletons ... that's what really matters.

 

[Silhouette]

it doesn't make a damn what the economy has done during a Democrats 2 terms in office .. the whining RW's see it entirely different, facts be damned.

Obama lied, branded deep in the heart and soul of simpletons ... that's what really matters.

The 1% crosses both parties. Leave partisan politics out of it.

 

[Silhouette]

Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car.

Link?

Vehicle Loans - USC Credit Union
PSECU - Vehicle Loan Details
Apply for an Auto Loan Online | First Financial Bank
Loan Rates | Baltimore County Federal Credit Union
Central Willamette Community Credit Union
Auto Loans - Aventa Credit Union - The Common Thread

Up to 120% financing

There are dozens more.. let me know if you want more links..

 

[leftwinger]

I don't know you need humans bolting down seats? Someone has to Design, build, program, install, maintain, monitor, order all of those Automation machines. Higher pay, better jobs. This allows all that human labor to be used elsewhere.

Am I way wrong?

 

[Silhouette]

I don't know you need humans bolting down seats? Someone has to Design, build, program, install, maintain, monitor, order all of those Automation machines. Higher pay, better jobs. This allows all that human labor to be used elsewhere.

Am I way wrong?

Yes, the number of people working in building robots, unless those very expensive robots are built to fail predictably on a regular short term basis, is a very limited pool of jobs compared to how many more job man-hours are being robbed over the lifespan of those robots.

You are way wrong. The man-hour math means this economic disease will trickle up to the 1%. The amount of cash-outlay for each robot also adds to that economic peril. Think of how many salaries could be paid off the price of just one of those huge robots retail price, let alone the number of hours it will steal from a number of workers. Again, these robots and offshore jobs do NOT consume vacations, restaurant meals, housing, new cars, sundries and entertainment onshore on a regular, RELIABLE basis (you listening mutual fund investors?).

Detroit committed fiscal suicide in large part thanks to automation. Robots just weren't buying new houses around that area, nor any other product that keeps an economy thriving.

Thanks robots!

Built in 1907 for the luxury car manufacturer Packard Motors. It was the first example of Kahn's functionalist architecture. The 700 meter long plant provided a usable area of 325000 square meters (the equivalent of fifty football fields). Production ceased in 1956 and the site was turned into a business park, which closed in the late 1990s. Today one last company still occupies a tiny area of the park. Yves Marchand & Romain Meffre Photography

 

[Siete]

it doesn't make a damn what the economy has done during a Democrats 2 terms in office .. the whining RW's see it entirely different, facts be damned.

Obama lied, branded deep in the heart and soul of simpletons ... that's what really matters.

The 1% crosses both parties. Leave partisan politics out of it.

can't sorry. The Dem Party isn't the Party spreading totally negative BS about the economy and job growth.

 

[Silhouette]

The simple math and simple logic of the situation means that the economic danger we are in is not "BS". We must put pressure on our legislators to change workforce conditions quickly. Our enemies sit drooling and hoping we will try to "fake it till we make it" with laughable bandaids like 120% LTV car loans. People, wake the fuck up NOW.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't know you need humans bolting down seats? Someone has to Design, build, program, install, maintain, monitor, order all of those Automation machines. Higher pay, better jobs. This allows all that human labor to be used elsewhere.

Am I way wrong?

Yes, the number of people working in building robots, unless those very expensive robots are built to fail predictably on a regular short term basis, is a very limited pool of jobs compared to how many more job man-hours are being robbed over the lifespan of those robots.

You are way wrong. The man-hour math means this economic disease will trickle up to the 1%. The amount of cash-outlay for each robot also adds to that economic peril. Think of how many salaries could be paid off the price of just one of those huge robots retail price, let alone the number of hours it will steal from a number of workers. Again, these robots and offshore jobs do NOT consume vacations, restaurant meals, housing, new cars, sundries and entertainment onshore on a regular, RELIABLE basis (you listening mutual fund investors?).

Detroit committed fiscal suicide in large part thanks to automation. Robots just weren't buying new houses around that area, nor any other product that keeps an economy thriving.

Thanks robots!

Built in 1907 for the luxury car manufacturer Packard Motors. It was the first example of Kahn's functionalist architecture. The 700 meter long plant provided a usable area of 325000 square meters (the equivalent of fifty football fields). Production ceased in 1956 and the site was turned into a business park, which closed in the late 1990s. Today one last company still occupies a tiny area of the park. Yves Marchand & Romain Meffre Photography

The man-hour math means this economic disease will trickle up to the 1%.

Or anyone who owns stock.

Thanks robots!

And horses! People used to plow fields with hand tools. Look at all the jobs lost.
And don't get me started on those bastards....tractors! Threw those poor horses out of work.

Damn farmers. Growing more food for less money. Fuckers!!!

 

[9aces]

Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car.

Link?

Vehicle Loans - USC Credit Union
PSECU - Vehicle Loan Details
Apply for an Auto Loan Online | First Financial Bank
Loan Rates | Baltimore County Federal Credit Union
Central Willamette Community Credit Union
Auto Loans - Aventa Credit Union - The Common Thread

Up to 120% financing

There are dozens more.. let me know if you want more links..

I'd hoped you were wrong, guess not. The loan bubble gets bigger.

 

[Andylusion]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

Without offshoring, we would have fewer jobs, and be in a much worse mess.

Foreign bank accounts do not save on taxes. I've searched and search for this mythical foreign bank tax loop hole, and found absolutely nothing credible to support it's existence. If you have real evidence, I'd love to read it.

If you put in place stiff tariffs on all imported manufactured goods, you will wipe out the US economy. You will doom this country, and everyone in it to a second great depression. Guarantee it, 100%. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Universal health care would not divert money into the economy. It would divert more money than we paid in premiums into tax to the Federal Government. The cost in taxes in nearly every single country that has universal health care, is greater than how much we in insurance.

Consumer spending would decrease, not increase.

My portfolio has not shrunk. I'm way up over last year.

You are looking at people wanting to buy something they don't have money for... and assuming that means anything other than individuals are acting irresponsibly. It's not the governments job to make your life better. It's not the government job to make sure you are not so dumb, as to buy a car with a loan that's 120% of the value of the car. It's not president Obama's job, to make sure you don't act like an idiot with your finances.

 

[Rustic]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

We all know socialism has never worked in all of history... May the insanity continue

 

[Silhouette]

Without offshoring, we would have fewer jobs, and be in a much worse mess.

.

Yes, because less Americans working = a stronger economy. Got it... I took math in elementary school. So, no wool over my eyes.

 

[Andylusion]

Without offshoring, we would have fewer jobs, and be in a much worse mess.

.

Yes, because less Americans working = a stronger economy. Got it... I took math in elementary school. So, no wool over my eyes.

Yes, because without offshoring = less Americans working.

This isn't that difficult a concept, unless you are still in elementary school.

The primary reason companies off shore productions, is because it's not profitable to have the production done domestically.

The reasons for this could be health care mandates.... taxes... minimum wage hikes and other cost of labor drivers (unemployment compensation for example).

Regardless of the reasons, without off shoring, those companies would simply close.

I personally have lived this. While I would not count one single example as conclusive.... I have worked dozens of manufacturing jobs. From industrial printers, to computers, to circuit boards, to random stuff that I don't even know what it was for.

All of these, every single manufacturing job I have ever worked, was built on imported manufactured goods. Without those imported goods, I would not have had a job.

What you advocate, would put millions of Americans out of work.

Moreover, the last time the US implemented a purely protectionist policy, the result was the Great Depression. Even if you try to deny that the protectionism was the cause, you can't ignore the fact that there was no economic boast from the protectionism.

Before protectionism roaring 20s, after protectionism, depression 30s. That's a fact.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car.

Link?

Gone are the days of the 3 and 4 year car loan for a large percentage of Americans.
With soaring prices on vehicles and dwindling income people are signing 6 and 7 year loans.
Thats fucken nuts!! You're pretty much guaranteed to end up backasswards on the loan.
This is a symptom of what the OP is talking about,and it's only going to get worse.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I don't know you need humans bolting down seats? Someone has to Design, build, program, install, maintain, monitor, order all of those Automation machines. Higher pay, better jobs. This allows all that human labor to be used elsewhere.

Am I way wrong?

Yes in that there are fewer decent paying jobs.
Obviously automation is designed to make the manufacturer more money and that translates into fewer workers.

I'm no liberal by any stretch and I believe in free markets but there is going to be an adjustment period and it's going to suck.

 

[ScienceRocks]

And this is why the richest populations with the largest middle classes all have some kind of government regulations and minimum wages. Central America, southern Asia and Africa all have massive poor populations as the rich take it all and they have very little of this. In all these cases the rich hog it all and fuck everyone else!!! Same is occurring here the past 30 years under Reaganism.

Funny indeed. Loserterianism is from the pits of hell. History proves it wrong, current realities prove it wrong and that is just the way it is.

 

[Andylusion]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car.

Link?

Gone are the days of the 3 and 4 year car loan for a large percentage of Americans.
With soaring prices on vehicles and dwindling income people are signing 6 and 7 year loans.
Thats fucken nuts!! You're pretty much guaranteed to end up backasswards on the loan.
This is a symptom of what the OP is talking about,and it's only going to get worse.

I have huge problem with this logic.

The whole reason prices have gone up, is because of buyers. Buyers demand cars that are more expensive than they can afford. If no one bought a car they couldn't pay cash for, the prices of cars would go down. But that would require you buy a less expensive car. People don't want to do that. So this crying over buying cars you can't afford, for loans you can't pay back, is not the car companies fault. It's the public's fault. Stop buying cars you can't afford.

And of course you are going to end up backwards on the loan. Any loan made on a product that goes down in value, you are going to end up upside down on. If you buy a couch with a credit card, you are upside down on the couch before you get it to your home.

Any time you borrow money on something that loses value, it is mathematically impossible to end up upside down on it, unless you place a ton of money down.

 

[Andylusion]

I don't know you need humans bolting down seats? Someone has to Design, build, program, install, maintain, monitor, order all of those Automation machines. Higher pay, better jobs. This allows all that human labor to be used elsewhere.

Am I way wrong?

Yes in that there are fewer decent paying jobs.
Obviously automation is designed to make the manufacturer more money and that translates into fewer workers.

I'm no liberal by any stretch and I believe in free markets but there is going to be an adjustment period and it's going to suck.

But see what you are ignoring is that it is exactly those automations that allow us to buy products. The whole reason we are able to buy the goods and services we do, is exactly because automation allows prices to fall.

You can't look exclusively at the job/wage side of the equation, and ignore the price side.

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if everyone was hand building car parts like the 1949, and was making a middle class income of.... $36,000 a year. That's how much those amazing auto factory jobs were, that you claim we need.

To put that in context, two people working full time wage at Mcdonalds, earn $6 thousand more a year.

And by the way, the average car in 1949 was $16,500.

What's my point? There are hundreds of jobs that pay better than the factory worker jobs of the past, by a wide margin too.