Trayvon Martin And The Right To Be Left Alone...

[The T]

Anyway back to the OP

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled.

It's simply a fantasy to walk in a public place and expect that everyone else in the world will give you whatever space you need so you don't feel "hassled". Unrealistic expectations lead to disappointment.

And sadly confrontation.

 

[Peach]

For what purpose? Describing vague events isn't changing a question, if you meant "just watching, nothing more", I see no encroachment. But following and watching OVER A LONG PERIOD of time MIGHT be termed stalking.

Since Zimmerman wasn't even charged with stalking I guess we can rule that out.

Just 2nd degree murder that Angela Corey is going to have a hard time defending...

The Prosecutor may have evidence no one outside her office is aware of; still, until the Information is filed, it is impossible to know.

 

[dilloduck]

Anyway back to the OP

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled.

It's simply a fantasy to walk in a public place and expect that everyone else in the world will give you whatever space you need so you don't feel "hassled". Unrealistic expectations lead to disappointment.

And sadly confrontation.

Using Zimmerman's behavior as justification for Martin confronting him ( if that's what really happened) is pretty weak but it's all some people have.

 

[dilloduck]

Since Zimmerman wasn't even charged with stalking I guess we can rule that out.

Just 2nd degree murder that Angela Corey is going to have a hard time defending...

The Prosecutor may have evidence no one outside her office is aware of; still, until the Information is filed, it is impossible to know.

So do you plan on taking a walk tonight and see if anyone hassles you? Gonna call the cops?

 

[Peach]

Since Zimmerman wasn't even charged with stalking I guess we can rule that out.

He has yet to be charged with any crime; it does not appear he followed the victim for a long period, no.

And following an unknown person in a Gated Community is "Staliking" now?

*Do Tell*?

Should have READ "NOT appear", see the NO at the end? The question concerned watching people walk in general, not Zimmerman.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Go figure.....a future black Democrat voter was profiled by an adult Hispanic male Democrat.....

 

[Peach]

Just 2nd degree murder that Angela Corey is going to have a hard time defending...

The Prosecutor may have evidence no one outside her office is aware of; still, until the Information is filed, it is impossible to know.

So do you plan on taking a walk tonight and see if anyone hassles you? Gonna call the cops?

No, that is an ODD question.

 

[Ariux]

The Prosecutor may have evidence no one outside her office is aware of; still, until the Information is filed, it is impossible to know.

It would be entertaining if one of those shitbrained racists who support Trayvon could give us a hypothetical example of what they think the Prosecutor might have that could trump the mountain of evidence against Trayvon. But, imagining how they can pick their nose is enough of a challenge for them.

The Prosecutors's Probable Cause affidavit is paper-thin and inconsistent with the evidence. The only thing behind the Prosecutor's murder charge is a desire to be re-elected.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Interesting take from Mark Judge.


I’ve never been able to get over the crucial minutes of George Zimmerman’s encounter with Trayvon Martin. I’m not talking about the initial struggle, or even the fatal shooting. That’s where most of the media coverage has been, and for good reason. A life has been lost and it’s important to figure out exactly what happened.

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled. I’m aware that “hassle” is a term straight out of 1973, and maybe that’s deliberate. When I was growing up in Maryland in the 1970s, my mom had a term for people in the neighborhood who made it their job to mind everything that went on there: the sidewalk superintendent.

Sidewalk superintendents were mostly decent people just trying to protect the neighborhood. Bill Bennett once noted that in the old days the neighborhood watch consisted of mothers on their front porches who could spring into action when they saw something amiss. Such people are an important part of creating a safe and thriving community. Indeed, George Zimmerman had foiled at least one robbery in Twin Lakes, the crime-ridden complex in Florida where the shooting took place.

Trayvon Martin was not one of these; he was a teenage kid. But he was exercising his right to take a nocturnal sojourn and enter a quiet space where the world did not intrude. It set my conservative (even libertarian-leaning) alarm off when I heard the 911 tape where Zimmerman tells police that Trayvon Martin looks like he “is up to no good.” It was just too reminiscent of some sidewalk superintendents I knew as a kid. They were the guys who appeared the second you lit some firecrackers or killed a tick with a magnifying glass...

Read more: Trayvon Martin | Trayvon Martin and the right to be left alone | The Daily Caller

Equally, Zimmerman should have done what he was told and backed off. Martin should not have beat the shit out of Zimmerman. Both were buying trouble with each of his actions.

How do you know Zimmerman didn't head back to the car?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

According to Republicans on the USMB, blacks can't go "walking" without being suspicious. They just naturally look suspicious.

And once one is walking the individual loses all rights under the Constitution!

Only if you're black. Because you look "suspicious".

It's awful.

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved....

 

[The T]

Interesting take from Mark Judge.


I’ve never been able to get over the crucial minutes of George Zimmerman’s encounter with Trayvon Martin. I’m not talking about the initial struggle, or even the fatal shooting. That’s where most of the media coverage has been, and for good reason. A life has been lost and it’s important to figure out exactly what happened.

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled. I’m aware that “hassle” is a term straight out of 1973, and maybe that’s deliberate. When I was growing up in Maryland in the 1970s, my mom had a term for people in the neighborhood who made it their job to mind everything that went on there: the sidewalk superintendent.

Sidewalk superintendents were mostly decent people just trying to protect the neighborhood. Bill Bennett once noted that in the old days the neighborhood watch consisted of mothers on their front porches who could spring into action when they saw something amiss. Such people are an important part of creating a safe and thriving community. Indeed, George Zimmerman had foiled at least one robbery in Twin Lakes, the crime-ridden complex in Florida where the shooting took place.

Trayvon Martin was not one of these; he was a teenage kid. But he was exercising his right to take a nocturnal sojourn and enter a quiet space where the world did not intrude. It set my conservative (even libertarian-leaning) alarm off when I heard the 911 tape where Zimmerman tells police that Trayvon Martin looks like he “is up to no good.” It was just too reminiscent of some sidewalk superintendents I knew as a kid. They were the guys who appeared the second you lit some firecrackers or killed a tick with a magnifying glass...

Read more: Trayvon Martin | Trayvon Martin and the right to be left alone | The Daily Caller

Equally, Zimmerman should have done what he was told and backed off. Martin should not have beat the shit out of Zimmerman. Both were buying trouble with each of his actions.

Whom told him to "Back Off"? NO ONE. And IF you claim 'Dispatcher'? They can only *ADVISE* they aren't LEO's.

 

[Ariux]

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved....

That's true for an African, and it's doubly true for a white person. But, it doesn't apply to this case. Zimmerman called 911 because of how Trayvon was BEHAVING.

 

[The T]

He has yet to be charged with any crime; it does not appear he followed the victim for a long period, no.

And following an unknown person in a Gated Community is "Staliking" now?

*Do Tell*?

Should have READ "NOT appear", see the NO at the end? The question concerned watching people walk in general, not Zimmerman.

And again? Does it matter?

*I* am at liberty to watch ANYONE I damn well please. Ihaven't done a thing but locked my eyeballs onto something/someone *I* chose and chose to observe with NO REASON in the world but by choice.

Am *I* impeding thier liberty to move about and be whom they are?

*NO*

 

[paperview]

Interesting take from Mark Judge.


I’ve never been able to get over the crucial minutes of George Zimmerman’s encounter with Trayvon Martin. I’m not talking about the initial struggle, or even the fatal shooting. That’s where most of the media coverage has been, and for good reason. A life has been lost and it’s important to figure out exactly what happened.

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled. I’m aware that “hassle” is a term straight out of 1973, and maybe that’s deliberate. When I was growing up in Maryland in the 1970s, my mom had a term for people in the neighborhood who made it their job to mind everything that went on there: the sidewalk superintendent.

Sidewalk superintendents were mostly decent people just trying to protect the neighborhood. Bill Bennett once noted that in the old days the neighborhood watch consisted of mothers on their front porches who could spring into action when they saw something amiss. Such people are an important part of creating a safe and thriving community. Indeed, George Zimmerman had foiled at least one robbery in Twin Lakes, the crime-ridden complex in Florida where the shooting took place.

Trayvon Martin was not one of these; he was a teenage kid. But he was exercising his right to take a nocturnal sojourn and enter a quiet space where the world did not intrude. It set my conservative (even libertarian-leaning) alarm off when I heard the 911 tape where Zimmerman tells police that Trayvon Martin looks like he “is up to no good.” It was just too reminiscent of some sidewalk superintendents I knew as a kid. They were the guys who appeared the second you lit some firecrackers or killed a tick with a magnifying glass...

Read more: Trayvon Martin | Trayvon Martin and the right to be left alone | The Daily Caller

Equally, Zimmerman should have done what he was told and backed off. Martin should not have beat the shit out of Zimmerman. Both were buying trouble with each of his actions.

How do you know Zimmerman didn't head back to the car?

Location, location, location.

 

[Ariux]

How do you know Zimmerman didn't head back to the car?

Location, location, location.

You don't know where Zimmerman was when he agreed to give up following Trayvon. Maybe where the shooting occurred was on the way back. And, you don't know where Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. It could have been near the SUV and Zimmerman ran, to get away, to where the shooting happened.

But, you do know if Trayvon wasn't planning on attacking Zimmerman, he would have been long gone. You do know that Zimmerman credibly lost track of Trayvon. You do know that Trayvon is a piece of shit.

 

[WorldWatcher]

How do you know Zimmerman didn't head back to the car?

Location, location, location.

You don't know where Zimmerman was when he agreed to give up following Trayvon. Maybe where the shooting occurred was on the way back.

However, we do know precisely how long Zimmerman was moving from the point he exited the truck (you can hear it on the tape) to the point where he acknowleged the dispatchers instructions not to follow the unknown individual. That time difference was 18-seconds.

Zimmerman was on the phone talking to the dispatcher, we know from the sounds that he was not sprinting. A brisk walk is approximately 4.5 feet per second (3 mph). This can be researched by reviewing studies. That's a 20 minute mile. 5280 feet divided by 20 minutes is 264 feet per minute. 264 feet divided by 60 seconds equals 4.4 feet per second. Over 18 seconds that 79.2 feet (about 27 yards).

18 Seconds to travel outbound 27 yards and he had 2:30-3:00 from acknowledging the instructions until the actual event occurred and the gun fired, 60 seconds later the first police arrived on scene.

From the beginning of the walkway to the at the corner of Twin Trees Lane around behind the building to to the scene of the event is approximately 70 yards. (IIRC) it's about 120-130 yards to the middle of Twin Trees Lane between the turns and 158 years back to the left turn.

Depending on exactly where Zimmerman's truck was parked he would have never reached the event site if he'd turned around to return to the truck when instructed to do so. Zimmerman must have continuted to travel away from the truck to arrive at the event site.

(Disclaimer: While Zimmerman had to move away from his truck, that still may not indicated who initiated hostilities, it could have been Zimmerman or it could have been Martin.)

And, you don't know where Trayvon confronted Zimmerman.

We don't know if Martin confronted Zimmerman or if Zimmerman confronted Martin.

We don't know if the person initiating the contact is the person who initiated hostilities.

It could have been near the SUV and Zimmerman ran, to get away, to where the shooting happened.

Unlikely as there are two independent sources that didn't know about each other that confirmed Martin ran - Zimmerman himself and the girlfriend.

But, you do know if Trayvon wasn't planning on attacking Zimmerman, he would have been long gone.

Under Florida Stand Your Ground, if Zimmerman had been pursuing Martin, Martin would have been under no requirement to retreat (the law works both ways). However, Martin had already shown, based on Zimmerman's own words in the tape, a willingness to depart the area as opposed to initiating confrontation.

When looking at the map, the most logical exit from the truck area for Martin was to take the sidewalk around the building as it would break sight with the unknown individual in the truck who was acting funny (from Martin's perspective). Once he broke sight with Zimmerman, he may not have known Zimmerman was attempting to follow and then slowed to tell his girlfriend what was going on.

You do know that Zimmerman credibly lost track of Trayvon.

And we know that Zimmerman exited the truck to pursue/follow/chase Martin.

You do know that Trayvon is a piece of shit.

No we don't. We do know however that Martin had already demonstrated a willingness to leave an area prior to a confrontation and we do know that Zimmerman was willing to travel toward a possible confrontation.


DISCLAIMER: The above is provided as a counterpoint to an obviously biased perspective. At this point there his no public information as to who initiated the confrontation and who initiated hostilities (they could be different people).


>>>>

 

[mal]

Are you suggesting an anti-hassle law ?

No.

What are you Suggesting then?...



peace...

 

[nodoginnafight]

ITo me one of the most disturbing aspects of the case is the lack of an investigation by the local authorities. Yes, the media coverage has been sketchy, but without the intensive public scrutiny it appears that the local authorities would have tried to just let this opne slide on by without any real investigation.

When public pressure required the state authorities to step in and do a real investigation, they came up with enough evidence to merit a second degree murder charge. How many of these cases slide by without intense public scrutiny? It's scary.

 

[Peach]

You do know that Trayvon is a piece of shit.


No, he seems to have no history of violence, unlike Zimmerman.

 

[Peach]

And following an unknown person in a Gated Community is "Staliking" now?

*Do Tell*?

Should have READ "NOT appear", see the NO at the end? The question concerned watching people walk in general, not Zimmerman.

And again? Does it matter?

*I* am at liberty to watch ANYONE I damn well please. Ihaven't done a thing but locked my eyeballs onto something/someone *I* chose and chose to observe with NO REASON in the world but by choice.

Am *I* impeding thier liberty to move about and be whom they are?

*NO*

AS I WROTE, NO. Following them repeatedly, or tracking them down, calling repeatedly, etc. are different matters.