Tragedy At Virginia Tech Campus

[red states rule]

An armed society IS a polite society. But carrying a weapon, be it blade, firearm or impact, and being trained in the appropriate use thereof , requires a level of responsibility which I find many adults, let alone college students, lack.

Carrying a weapon requires one to be responsible, not only for its use, but also preventing its misuse by others. Responsibility for the consequences of said use or misuse go without saying.

Who are you to judge if they are "responsible" enough?

If they complete the background checks and training (if required) why shouldn't they be allowed to protect themselfs?

 

[maineman]

If you teach your child to be mature and avoid keggers to begin with then you really wouldn't have anything to worry about would you?

why avoid the issue? Are you really advocating that college campuses not only allow but encourage any student without a criminal record to carry a concealed weapon to classrooms?

 

[red states rule]

why avoid the issue? Are you really advocating that college campuses not only allow but encourage any student without a criminal record to carry a concealed weapon to classrooms?

If that had happened perhaps not as many people would have been murdered.

 

[maineman]

so...you are advocating that college students without criminal records be allowed to carry concealed weapons into college classrooms?

what age limit would you impose?

 

[red states rule]

so...you are advocating that college students without criminal records be allowed to carry concealed weapons into college classrooms?

what age limit would you impose?

If a teacher, a security guard, or a student had a concealed weapon the shooter may not have killed as many people

This was "gun free zone" wasn't it?

 

[maineman]

so...you are advocating that college students without criminal records be allowed to carry concealed weapons into college classrooms?

what age limit would you impose?

can you actually try to answer these questions?

 

[red states rule]

can you actually try to answer these questions?

I have no problem with law abiding citiens carrying a concealed weapon to protect themselves

They go through the background check, the training to fire the weapon - why not?

Age?

20?

 

[maineman]

at least your age requirement would prevent high school students from carrying concealed weapons into school.

I must, however, beg to differ with you regarding concealed weapons in college classrooms....but there is clearly no sense discussing it further.

 

[red states rule]

at least your age requirement would prevent high school students from carrying concealed weapons into school.

I must, however, beg to differ with you regarding concealed weapons in college classrooms....but there is clearly no sense discussing it further.

Yea, the shooter would have been killed much sooner and there goes the liberal media anti gun stories

 

[maineman]

Yea, the shooter would have been killed much sooner and there goes the liberal media anti gun stories

that's your opinion. and I certainly think you are entitled to it.


my guess is that a vast majority of Americans would be uncomfortable sending their children to colleges that encouraged and allowed any student without a criminal record to carry concealed weapons anywhere anytime on campus.

 

[red states rule]

that's your opinion. and I certainly think you are entitled to it.


my guess is that a vast majority of Americans would be uncomfortable sending their children to colleges that encouraged and allowed any student without a criminal record to carry concealed weapons anywhere anytime on campus.

It is a fact.

The liberal media is full of the usual anti gun stories - and the bodies are not even cold yet

So lets send the kids to class and let the lone gunmen go to work on the sitting ducks

 

[Gunny]

Yea, the shooter would have been killed much sooner and there goes the liberal media anti gun stories

The fact is, the citizens who obeyed the law and were unarmed were victimized by the criminal who WAS armed since he was out to violate the law anyway.

This IS a perfect example of the result of restrictive guns laws.

However, arming a campus full of students is one of your not-so-brighter ideas. All this situation needed was adding a buch of gun-toting, panicked students to it, shootign at anything that moved.

The physical security of the school sucked, and law enforcement doesn't appear to have analyzed and responded to the situation in a very timely manner. I'm sure they did the best they could based on their small-town abilities, but the fact remains.

 

[red states rule]

I never knew you could buy a gun at a super market


WashPost Channels European Disgust at Tech Shooting: What Price Gun Rights?
Posted by Tim Graham on April 17, 2007 - 08:08.
The easiest place to find liberal disgust at American gun laws in Tuesday's Washington Post was in Kevin Sullivan's roundup of international reaction from London. The headline was "Shock, Sympathy, And Denunciation Of U.S. Gun Laws: British Newspaper Asks, 'What Price the Right to Bear Arms?'"

One British expert even claimed you could easily buy automatic weapons along with your yogurt and bologna at the supermarket:

"I think the reason it happens in America is there's access to weapons -- you can go into a supermarket and get powerful automatic weapons," Keith Ashcroft, a psychologist, told the Press Association. Ashcroft said he believed such access, along with a culture that makes gun ownership seem normal, increases the likelihood of such attacks in the United States.

Guns and butter? That might be true of a big chain store like a Target or Wal-Mart that has both, but "supermarket" isn't usually the term that comes to mind then. I can't buy an automatic weapon at the local Safeway. The psychologist's comment was preceded by this sentence: "In Britain, there was shock at the scale of the killings, but many people said they were not surprised, seeing the United States as a nation obsessed with guns, where firearms are easy to obtain." The article chronicled European disgust:

Early editions of Tuesday's London papers were dominated by huge headlines and photos of police hauling the wounded out of a building at Virginia Tech. "Executed at Uni," said the Daily Mirror, using British slang for university. The Daily Mail's headline, meanwhile, asked, "What price the right to bear arms?"

Gun ownership is strictly regulated in Britain. The Home Office, which is in charge of public safety, said gun crime accounts for less than half a percent of all crime recorded by police, according to the Press Association.

In a special report on BBC 24 Monday evening, a commentator, Gavin Hewitt, said mass murder on school campuses had become "part of the American landscape." The network showed video footage of Columbine High School in Colorado and the Amish shooting in Pennsylvania, and noted that the powerful U.S. gun lobby had blocked gun restrictions that Europeans regard as simple common sense. "Even after today's horrific tragedy, laws are unlikely to change," Hewitt said.

In France, news of the shootings dominated the Web pages of every major French newspaper. Bloggers responding to the reports overwhelmingly blamed the tragedy on what they called lax American rules on gun ownership.

"In France, it is incomprehensible for us to understand what could prompt someone to own a handgun," a blogger identified as Aliosha wrote on the Web site of the daily newspaper Liberation, adding that it is "the right (almost the duty) for each American to be able to obtain a weapon without much trouble."

I wonder if The Washington Post ever looks at a European social trend and interviews Americans to denounce how backwards the English or the French are for their laws. Or does the liberal press just aim to design a one-way street of denunciation to the American cavemen who have yet to adopt European laws wholesale?

http://newsbusters.org/node/12081

 

[red states rule]

The fact is, the citizens who obeyed the law and were unarmed were victimized by the criminal who WAS armed since he was out to violate the law anyway.

This IS a perfect example of the result of restrictive guns laws.

However, arming a campus full of students is one of your not-so-brighter ideas. All this situation needed was adding a buch of gun-toting, panicked students to it, shootign at anything that moved.

The physical security of the school sucked, and law enforcement doesn't appear to have analyzed and responded to the situation in a very timely manner. I'm sure they did the best they could based on their small-town abilities, but the fact remains.

Full?

Do you think all the students would be armed?

 

[maineman]

It is a fact.

The liberal media is full of the usual anti gun stories - and the bodies are not even cold yet

So lets send the kids to class and let the lone gunmen go to work on the sitting ducks

no...it's an opinion.... not a fact. and I SAID that you were totally entitled to have that opinion. I just don't share it. I know that I would not send my children to a school where any student could be carrying a handgun under his jacket at any time.... any student with a few too many beers starts to hit on my daughter or complain to my son about how he played in the hockey game..... the potential for violence is overwhelming - IMHO.

 

[Gunny]

Full?

Do you think all the students would be armed?

First off, the legal age to purchase and own a handgun is 21. That would let out freshmen, sophomores, and probably half the juniors.

Regardless, you cannot have a bunch of people in close quarters like that, at least some with questionable emotional maturity armed with firearms. The military doesn't even do that. Ammo gets handed out at the last minute. That's just asking for it.

Thsi has nothing to do with the right to private gun ownership. It has to do with us, as a society, protecting our youth while we have them in places such as schools preparing them to become members of society.

The surveillance at this school is nonexistent, and there is no security force. Had those building's been cammed at a central location, and a responsible and trained securty force been on campus, the reaction to this could have been MUCH quicker.

 

[jodylee]

if a nutter wants to go and mow down loads of people with a gun no amount of security or network coverage is going to stop them. extra security is not the awnser it will just make the lives of students more difficult. where there's a will there's a way.
you have to ask why? it keeps happening in america.
i think its a mixture of the availability of guns, the ill mental health of america in general. canadians also have guns but they don't shoot each other nor do the swis who have more guns per head than america, but these places are nice places to live, no one fears their neighbour they can leave there doors open. americans live in fear. they are paranoid. and thus trigger happy.
basically, yes other countrys have guns as well, but you can't be trusted to have them, its like giving a gun to a phyco,
I know this guy was koren but he was living in america, and the same enviroment as everyone else.

 

[Gunny]

if a nutter wants to go and mow down loads of people with a gun no amount of security or network coverage is going to stop them. extra security is not the awnser it will just make the lives of students more difficult. where there's a will there's a way.

I don't disagree here. Of course it's going to happen. I can however be minimized, and better surveillance/security would accomplish just that. I don't care if it inconveniences the individual student. The safety and welfare of the whole is more important than the desires and comfort of the individual.

you have to ask why? it keeps happening in america.
i think its a mixture of the availability of guns, the ill mental health of america in general. canadians also have guns but they don't shoot each other nor do the swis who have more guns per head than america, but these places are nice places to live, no one fears their neighbour they can leave there doors open. americans live in fear. they are paranoid. and thus trigger happy.
basically, yes other countrys have guns as well, but you can't be trusted to have them, its like giving a gun to a phyco,
I know this guy was koren but he was living in america, and the same enviroment as everyone else.

You just called us all psycho's then pointed out the fact the guy who did this was NOT American? Speaking of

 

[Creek_George]

First off, the legal age to purchase and own a handgun is 21. That would let out freshmen, sophomores, and probably half the juniors.

Regardless, you cannot have a bunch of people in close quarters like that, at least some with questionable emotional maturity armed with firearms. The military doesn't even do that. Ammo gets handed out at the last minute. That's just asking for it.

Thsi has nothing to do with the right to private gun ownership. It has to do with us, as a society, protecting our youth while we have them in places such as schools preparing them to become members of society.

The surveillance at this school is nonexistent, and there is no security force. Had those building's been cammed at a central location, and a responsible and trained securty force been on campus, the reaction to this could have been MUCH quicker.

Very well said.

The issue is society...I can see why the gun laws/our freedoms come into play debating this subject regarding our right to bare arms etc.

Having our society with such easy access to weapons...will make all the more better the security we will need when it comes to protecting our schools.

Banks do it,soon most schools will do it....Then these suiciders will start a trend at the local grocery store as well...

Armed guards everywhere..metal detectors in every doorway.

There is no place safe from a lunitic with a gun.

On the other hand...One sure does not hear alot of stories how proud gun owners lives were saved because they have a gun...Only the tradegies such as this.

BUT..our law enforcement saves life by having them..and as a detterent.

A right to bare arms..is something society will take away from us soon...It takes a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us.

Is there a solution to this...a political side to take?...It's to late already.

There will be another coppy cat...wana be nut case like this kid.

This is a horrible thing...a horrible act it was.

Creek

 

[Creek_George]

Now information is comming out that this guy had some serious problems...

Oh really?...(shaking my head).

If this would of been Columbine High School..he'd probably of been under lock & key....Obviously he's what..23?.24?...and in a Technical School...Maybe a bad example..just a little pissed about the loss of innocent life.

Next time someone is referred to a counselor there...who has been stalking women,and writing sick shit...will hopefuly get a good anal cavity check to make sure they are safe to let back in a school.

In our personal lives..we don't wana hang with screwed up people..They stick out like a sore thumb..just as this killer did prior...Going to school with them..having to work with them?...Give me some security..or give me a permit..I'll wear a dam holster if needed to feel safe.

This is unfolding in an ugly way....

I'm glad I'm in the middle of no where....Maybe move to Alaska.

Creek