Ya, and Israel commemorates the King David Hotel Bombing each year (or at least one city there does) - so what? Their old terrorists become political leaders. There's not friggin' difference. Israel considers their personal terrorists to be freedom fighters and Palestine considers their personal terrorists to be freedom fighters.
Well, since you have yet to show it is done in the name of religion and you steadfastly refuse to answer the question of why the most populous Muslim nation, amongst others do not engage in it or why non-Muslim cultures engage in it then I'll continue to call your bigoted bullshit exactly what it is: bigoted bullshit.
Aside from that - Honor Killing is the extreme end of the spectrum that is culturally accepted violence towards women. I, frankly, do not see how it is worse than female infanticide or a brutal gang rape that leaves a young woman in a coma and finally death. It's all coming from the same source - you just refuse to see it because you want to see Islam as the source of all evil and if it's not Muslims doing it, you don't give a shit.
I don't think a person talking about honor killings among Muslims is actually bigoted.
Talking about it? No.
But when you move on to labeling it as something specifically supported by that religion, and when you likewise ignore the fact that honor killing occurs frequently outside of the Muslim religion - then yes. It begins to look like bigoted fear mongering.
Depends. That same person ignores that honor killing does not occur in all Muslim countries and does occur in non-Muslim populations of those countries.
Why are those facts ignored? I'll tell you. The real concern is Islam, not Honor Killing.
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Actually - they are very very rare in western countries. They are sensational and brutal and go against our values so they appear in the media (blood, gore, sex sells) but they are still very rare and mainly among recent immigrants. In addition, some of them are less honor killings than an extension of domestic violence.
From Wikipedia:
Wikipedia also has this, referencing the author who's article you linked:
Now, the thing is - the Canadian article points out that it's the culture that is the problem, and that makes sense. Your author, who is quoted here - wrote an excellent article and makes some good points in her conclusion - however, there is one glaring point: her research was with Hindu's in India and Muslims in Pakistan and dealt with one immigrant group: Pakistani's. I think a lot of what she says makes sense - but, it's also very much culture within a fundamentalist Islamic outlook.
Although Hindu honor killing is a gruesome and sordid affair, it differs in many important respects from honor killing in neighboring Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Indian Hindus murder men for honor more often than do Pakistani Muslims, and they murder for reasons mainly related to concerns about caste purity.
Perhaps the most striking characteristic of Hindu honor killings is the fact that Indians abandon the horrific practice when they migrate to the West whereas many Pakistani Muslims carry it with them. Part of the explanation may lie in their different patterns of acculturation upon immigrating to the West. Young Hindus in the West are no less prone to violate traditional social codes than young Muslims, and their parents may be no less furious when they do, but Hindu families in the West do not feel the same degree of public humiliation and shame as they might experience back in India. They are eager to preserve their cultural identity but not at the expense of alienating their adoptive communities. The absence of dreaded khap panchayats no doubt mitigates the consequences of dishonor.
Due in part to the spread of radical Islamist ideology, Muslim immigrants in the West are either radicalized or socialize predominantly within Muslim-only communities, and their conception of honor reflects this. Even affluent young women of Pakistani descent in the West can face the credible threat of death or severe bodily harm. Actress Afshan Azad, who played Padma Patil in the Harry Potter film series, was beaten and threatened with death in 2010 by her Pakistani father and brother for dating a non-Muslim.[59] If she can be victimized, anyone can.
While it is alarming that there are so many honor killings in India and Pakistan, there may yet be cause for hope. Every honor killing begins with a rebellion against tribalism and patriarchy—or with a fear that tribal and patriarchal values are under attack. Many of the victims in our study were people who believed that they could push traditional boundaries, that they could get away with asserting their rights. They were wrong, and they paid the ultimate price for that mistake, but the key is that they tried. More rebels will follow.
My argument is culture for the following reasons:
- there is nothing specific in the religion endorsing or supporting honor killing (certainly no more than Judaism or Christianity).
- similar cultures in India for example, practice it and non-Muslim minorities in Muslim ME countries practice it.
- it is rare (if at all) in Indonesia - the most heavily populated muslim nation, it's non-existent in non-immigrant western muslim communities.
So why do people make it about a religion than about the cultural values of those countries and their immigrants? There is a relation between religion and culture, but it has more to do with how that culture chooses to interpret that religion. Some will say it's PC refusing to acknowledge "reality" - but I think, in light of the above inconsistencies - it's bigotry refusing to entertain the idea that Islam is not the source of all evil.
The sad thing is that young women in the prime of their lives are murdered by a member of their family because of a supposed stain they put on their families, such as the daughter becoming too Westernized or the daughter is interested in someone who is not of the same religion. Being that you had brought up Hindus, I thought this article was interesting.
Hindu vs. Muslim Honor Killings :: The Phyllis Chesler Organization
To me - the reason for the killing is less important then the murder of innocent girls and women. It's gruesome and wrong regardless of whether it's "family honor", caste differences, socially accepted rape or machismo "crimes of passion" - all of which are often overlooked in societies that condone or ignore violence against women. When people try to make a religion a primary culprit in these happenings, it tells me they don't care as much when it happens outside of the Islam. It's kind of like your frequent argument against Sherri: ....why don't you care when xyz outrages are being purpretrated against qrt in lmno.
