Toddler finds mother shot dead in Umm al-Fahm

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Honor Killings" are accepted in Islam and are happening in those Countries including Gaza!!! They are NOT prosecuted so they are LAWFUL !!!!! STOP L3YING!!!!!!

NO, YOU ARE A LIAR! APPARENTLY, YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF TELLING THE TRUTH! AND there are no Islam countries, what a bigot your words show you are. YOU are nothing but a lying bigot!

You hate Israel; You have posted that Country should disappear but I am the Bigot? You are a Hypocritical Jew Hater! If what is going on in the Muslim religion was happening in Israel you would swear it was a Jewish thing . There are no Islam Countries? Ok; How about Countries where Islam is the dominant religion such as " Palestine" or Saudi Arabia just for openers! You are nothing but a Jew Hating Lying Bigot ! !! IT IS PART OF ISLAM

What I hate are the human rights abuses Israel carries out and every person who has a conscience hates that! And people.of conscience speak out against these human rights abuses as long as they continue.

 

[Hossfly]

NO, YOU ARE A LIAR! APPARENTLY, YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF TELLING THE TRUTH! AND there are no Islam countries, what a bigot your words show you are. YOU are nothing but a lying bigot!

You hate Israel; You have posted that Country should disappear but I am the Bigot? You are a Hypocritical Jew Hater! If what is going on in the Muslim religion was happening in Israel you would swear it was a Jewish thing . There are no Islam Countries? Ok; How about Countries where Islam is the dominant religion such as " Palestine" or Saudi Arabia just for openers! You are nothing but a Jew Hating Lying Bigot ! !! IT IS PART OF ISLAM

What I hate are the human rights abuses Israel carries out and every person who has a conscience hates that! And people.of conscience speak out against these human rights abuses as long as they continue.

There are no human rights abuses by Israel. You make things up. These many organizations that roll off your tongue such as NGO,ISM,HRO, UN and all those idiotic abbreviations are nothing more than a pack of Jew haters that you idolize.

 

[Coyote]

Posts have been removed. Take your off topic flaming to the appropriate rooms: Flame Zone or Badlands.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

Honor Killings" are accepted in Islam and are happening in those Countries including Gaza!!! They are NOT prosecuted so they are LAWFUL !!!!! STOP LYING!!!!!!

None of that is true and your sources do not back any of it up as true. Is
Israel a Muslim country? THE thread began discussing a possible honor killing there. DO honor killings happen in Indonesia where the majority religion is Islam? The fact is honor killings happen in many places and it has nothing to do with Islam or countries being Muslim. ONE last point, countries are not a Religion, Islam or any other religion, it is people who have religions and no nation has people all of one religion.

 

[Coyote]

So Honor Killings are mentioned in the Old Testament; What's your point? Do the Jewish people practice it You Moron?

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.

SMALL EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY!

Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

If honor killing is "a part of Islam" why is it not practiced in the most populous Islamic country in the world? You fail to address this over and over.

Secondly, re-read your article.

Honor killing is AGAINST THE LAW in the Palestinian Territories.

In otherwords - it is already "outlawed". The issue - if you read the article rather than go by the title, is the penalty for it.

Abbas had made a promise to amend the law to guarantee maximum penalties for “honor killing” which he has since back-pedaled on.

Abbas also suspended Article 340, which offers a pardon for murder if the perpetrator committed the crime on finding his wife in bed with another man (though apparently that pardon hasn't been used for ages in the courts so it doesn't mean as much as it appears).

 

[irosie91]

Coyote----your arguements against the fact that "HONOR" killings
are far more prevalent in MANY muslim population than MOST other
populations ---are contrived. A STRUGGLE to find a history of an
"HONOR" killing in the bible ----which is a HISTORY-- not a compendium
of law----is silly Islamic law is based on anything which muhummad
DID. Jewish law is not based on ANYTHING MOSES DID ---or
ADAM DID. Islamic scholars interpret koranic law and jewish
scholars interpret jewish law. Islamic scholars have chosen to
mitigate penalties against HONOR KILLERS in islamic lands---jewish
scholars chose to stop executing ADULTERERS thousands of years
ago, christians were still doing it a few hundred years ago but
also STOPPED Greeks did it even after jews stopped---for women
and her male lover and seem have done something like it ----
in the name of ZORBA THE GREEK
I have no idea what and when or still goes on in SICILY
muslims still do it TODAY---openly----<<< in large muslim countries
<<<<<< thems the facts
(if you want to insist that execution of adulterers is the
EPITOME OF HONOR KILLING)
an interesting factoid is that there is an allusion in
the KORAN ---to the fact that jews argued against executing
adulterers in the time of muhummad-----interestingly enough---
the allusion is historically correct. That arguement began LONG
before the "CAST THE FIRST STONE" parable (attn sherri)

perhaps the discussion should center upon which legal systems
mitigate murder based on "PASSION"----and either term it
MANSLAUGHTER ----or penalize it very lightly---and which societies
tend to HIDE IT because of social approval My sense is that
lots of killing can go on in south east asia which is socially
acceptableand in the HILLS and in the far east------and in ANY
PLACE IN THE WORLD WHICH IS THE HILLS. like Zorba the
greek's hometown and-----remote kurdish villages and maybe
appalachia

perhaps a more neutral topic would be the execution of "WITCHES"

jews did that thouands of years ago----but not as recently as SALEM

it turns out the laws are on the books and occassionally enforced
in saudi arabia-------

 

[Lipush]

I don't know if Honor killings are permitted in Islam or the Palestinian community, that should be an interesting discussion.

However, what is clear, is, that there is no real protest against that, in the Arab community.

I think this issue is not being dealt with correctly, in Israel.

 

[Coyote]

I don't know if Honor killings are permitted in Islam or the Palestinian community, that should be an interesting discussion.

However, what is clear, is, that there is no real protest against that, in the Arab community.

I think this issue is not being dealt with correctly, in Israel.

There is increasing pressure to make changes, particularly after several high profile killings - but it's slow and it's going against an ingrained culture. It takes events like, for example, the shooting of the school girl in Pakistan to inflame a community enough to start agitating. The same thing is happening in India, with the horrific rape.

 

[Lipush]

The shooting of the school girl was not due to honor problem. It was pure Taliban lunacy. I'm not sure it's the same problem, even though both cultural issues maybe rooted in the same very general problem.

 

[proudveteran06]

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.



Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

THEY ARE LAWFUL IN " palestine". THEY ARE AN ACCEPTED PART OF ISLAM! NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT THEM , EXCUSES ARE MADE, AND THE WOMAN IS ALWAYS TO BLAME! STOP LYING!!!!


Palestinian Mother Speaks Out About Daughter?s Honor Killing - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East


Palestinian Mother Speaks Out
About Daughter’s Honor Killing



Palestinian women attend a public rally in Gaza City in May 2012. (photo by REUTERS/Mohammed Salem)









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By: Asmaa al-Ghoul for Al-Monitor Palestine Pulse Posted on March 20.


&#1573;&#1602;&#1585;&#1571; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1594;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1576;&#1610;&#1577;



Hiyam, a 23-year-old Palestinian woman, was killed at the hands of her father and brother at dawn on March 8 under the pretext of a so-called honor killing. Her mother Souad, 44, spoke with Al-Monitor at the family's home in the Nuseirat refugee camp in the heart of the Gaza Strip. Looking gray with fatigue, and so worn out she could not even stand, Souad said, “They wronged my daughter Hiyam. She was my eldest daughter and the sweetest of them all. May god avenge her father and brother.”


About This Article



Summary :
Those who commit so-called honor crimes continue to receive light sentences in the Gaza Strip despite efforts to amend outdated laws in this regard, Asmaa al-Ghoul reports.
Original Title:
Gazan Woman Killed in Suspected Honor Crime
Author: Asmaa al-Ghoul
Translated by: Sahar Ghoussoub

Categories : Originals Palestinian Authority


The mother told Al-Monitor her daughter's story. “I was visiting my parents, and I slept at their place. Around 3:00 a.m., I received a call from my eldest son, Adham, telling me to rush back home. I felt there was something very bad. When I arrived at home I found my daughter standing there in silence,” Souad said, pointing to a corner in the house. Souad continued, “Adham said that they had found our young neighbor Ahmed inside the house. I asked my daughter, and she said it was a thief jumping out of the window. They did not give her a chance to speak. My daughter was shy by nature. She did not even defend herself.”

With her surviving children sitting around her, Souad's eyes filled with tears, when she added, “I knew they were going to kill her. I screamed and cried, and then I don’t remember anything except that I woke up in a closed room with my young children.”


They wronged my daughter Hiyam. She was my eldest daughter and the sweetest of them all. May god avenge her father and brother.

Mohammed, Souad’s 13-year-old son, related what had happened next. “My mother fell on the floor in the living room. When she fainted, we dragged her to the room and they shut the door. This was the last time we saw my sister Hiyam. There were neighbors and many men in the house,” he said. According to the police and the family, the father and brother strangled Hiyam. The young man, Ahmed, was beaten and thrown from a high structure and presumed dead. Neighbors were asked to witness the act and reported it to the police.

Mohammed added, sadly, “The police came too late. They arrived after one and a half hours. If they had come earlier, they would have saved my sister Hiyam.”

Al-Monitor met with Ayman al-Batniji, the police spokesperson, in his office. Batniji phoned Raed Abu Hoichel, head of investigations in Gaza, to get the details of the crime. After their conversation, Batniji told Al-Monitor, “The police arrived to the crime scene after receiving a call from the neighbors saying that there was a young man on the ground, covered in blood. The police came and arrested him, along with the [female] victim’s father and brother.

After about an hour, the neighbors called again to inform the police that the girl’s body was in the house. The police went to the home and took Hiyam's body to the hospital. It was later revealed that the father and his son had first strangled Hiyam with a rope, and when that failed to kill her, they used a double wire instead. Batniji confirmed that the father and son had been arrested for killing Hiyam, while the young neighbor who was beaten was being held in custody on charges of violation of privacy.

Souad, her son Mohammed and her other daughter, Haya, 12, were holding on to Hiyam’s diary, in which she had written that she wanted to go to a friend’s birthday party and to another friend’s engagement party, but that she could not. The mother explained that her daughter rarely left the house and that there had been nothing suspicious in her behavior. “I remember that the day before she was killed, she asked me to get her a pad, so how can they accuse her of such a crime?” the victim’s mother asked, indicating that her daughter had been menstruating when she was killed.




Above is just part of the article !
Read more: Palestinian Mother Speaks Out About Daughter?s Honor Killing - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

 

[Coyote]

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

THEY ARE LAWFUL IN " palestine". THEY ARE AN ACCEPTED PART OF ISLAM! NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT THEM , EXCUSES ARE MADE, AND THE WOMAN IS ALWAYS TO BLAME! STOP LYING!!!!

She's not lying.

Honor killlings ARE NOT LAWFUL in Palestine. They are against the law. It's there in black and white. The law may not be well enough enforced and the penalties inadequate but it IS against the law. No one is making excuses - they are simply pointing out the FACTS. Gees.

In that last article you printed:

After about an hour, the neighbors called again to inform the police that the girl&#8217;s body was in the house. The police went to the home and took Hiyam's body to the hospital. It was later revealed that the father and his son had first strangled Hiyam with a rope, and when that failed to kill her, they used a double wire instead. Batniji confirmed that the father and son had been arrested for killing Hiyam, while the young neighbor who was beaten was being held in custody on charges of violation of privacy.

 

[proudveteran06]

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

THEY ARE LAWFUL IN " palestine". THEY ARE AN ACCEPTED PART OF ISLAM! NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT THEM , EXCUSES ARE MADE, AND THE WOMAN IS ALWAYS TO BLAME! STOP LYING!!!!

She's not lying.

Honor killlings ARE NOT LAWFUL in Palestine. They are against the law. It's there in black and white. The law may not be well enough enforced and the penalties inadequate but it IS against the law. No one is making excuses - they are simply pointing out the FACTS. Gees.

In that last article you printed:

After about an hour, the neighbors called again to inform the police that the girl’s body was in the house. The police went to the home and took Hiyam's body to the hospital. It was later revealed that the father and his son had first strangled Hiyam with a rope, and when that failed to kill her, they used a double wire instead. Batniji confirmed that the father and son had been arrested for killing Hiyam, while the young neighbor who was beaten was being held in custody on charges of violation of privacy.

So what? These " arrests" of those who commit " Honor Killings are relatively recent only because of the International Pressure put on them. If they want to be seen as " civilized" to the outside world they have to act " civilized", don't they? Next question would be; What jail sentence would they get?


Jordan is supposed to be a ' civilized " Arab Country and even there until a few years ago is was 100% accepted! They passed a law ; article 340 which stated husbands would no longer be EXONERATED for murdering unfaithful wives, but the " circumstances" would be considered " evidence" for mitigating his " defense" !!!!! O.K. with that? Of course you are ! " Honor Killings" are considered " just" even if the Husband, Father, Son, Brother SUSPECTS something!!!! If a woman is raped, SHE must have done something to provoke it!!

If Jews were doing this in Israel, the Pro Palestinians would be handing out Candy !!!!

 

[Coyote]

THEY ARE LAWFUL IN " palestine". THEY ARE AN ACCEPTED PART OF ISLAM! NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT THEM , EXCUSES ARE MADE, AND THE WOMAN IS ALWAYS TO BLAME! STOP LYING!!!!

She's not lying.

Honor killlings ARE NOT LAWFUL in Palestine. They are against the law. It's there in black and white. The law may not be well enough enforced and the penalties inadequate but it IS against the law. No one is making excuses - they are simply pointing out the FACTS. Gees.

In that last article you printed:

After about an hour, the neighbors called again to inform the police that the girl’s body was in the house. The police went to the home and took Hiyam's body to the hospital. It was later revealed that the father and his son had first strangled Hiyam with a rope, and when that failed to kill her, they used a double wire instead. Batniji confirmed that the father and son had been arrested for killing Hiyam, while the young neighbor who was beaten was being held in custody on charges of violation of privacy.

So what? These " arrests" of those who commit " Honor Killings are relatively recent only because of the International Pressure put on them. If they want to be seen as " civilized" to the outside world they have to act " civilized", don't they? Next question would be; What jail sentence would they get?

You know. You really are beginning to sound either stupid or desperate

Who cares if the arrests are "realtively recent" or "becuase of international pressure" (which, oddly, you support when it comes to that but not when it comes to Israel's human rights abuses). The point is that honor killing IS ILLEGAL despite your repeated lies to the contrary. It's NOT LEGAL. Ok, do we understand that one simple fact?

Second issue: I've repeatedly (how many times now?) said - that the law is not yet evenly enforced and the issue which Abbas is commenting on is NOT whether it is to be "outlawed" but whether maximum penalties shall be levied. At the moment Abbas has back pedaled in deference to conservative religious pressure. Ok - are we clear?

It IS illegal.

Maximum penalties are thus far NOT levied.

Those are the only actual facts.

As to the rest of it - if they want to be seen as civilized, YES - they need to get on the ball about this. As does India. As does a host of other countries. Just like Israel needs to get on the ball about incarcerating juvaniles without access to parents or lawyers - for stone throwing. Ok - do you GET IT that being civilized is complicated and not one sided? I for one, absolutely agree that such things as honor killing and casual acceptance of rape in some societies and the acceptance of child abuse in the guise of law enforcement is NOT civilized behavior.

/
Jordan is supposed to be a ' civilized " Arab Country and even there until a few years ago is was 100% accepted! They passed a law ; article 340 which stated husbands would no longer be EXONERATED for murdering unfaithful wives, but the " circumstances" would be considered " evidence" for mitigating his " defense" !!!!! O.K. with that? Of course you are ! " Honor Killings" are considered " just" even if the Husband, Father, Son, Brother SUSPECTS something!!!! If a woman is raped, SHE must have done something to provoke it!!

Ok. Well, first of all - do you have a link? Second of all, Jordan sounds a lot like Brazil in the 1990's and, frankly - Jordan needs to get on the ball. Eventually, it will.

If Jews were doing this in Israel, the Pro Palestinians would be handing out Candy !!!!

And we know that the Pro-Israeli's are already handing out candy for anything that bashes the Palestinians.

Do you think maybe, just once, you can see beyond a pro-Israeli/anti-Palesinian narrative and view the real issues? Like, world wide violence to women? Or do you ONLY care when it's a Muslim issue?

 

[irosie91]

coyote---you have evidence of jews "handing out candy" because
of disasters which befall "palestinians" ? why would you throw
in a gratuitous lie? its silly

 

[toastman]

She's not lying.

Honor killlings ARE NOT LAWFUL in Palestine. They are against the law. It's there in black and white. The law may not be well enough enforced and the penalties inadequate but it IS against the law. No one is making excuses - they are simply pointing out the FACTS. Gees.

In that last article you printed:

After about an hour, the neighbors called again to inform the police that the girl’s body was in the house. The police went to the home and took Hiyam's body to the hospital. It was later revealed that the father and his son had first strangled Hiyam with a rope, and when that failed to kill her, they used a double wire instead. Batniji confirmed that the father and son had been arrested for killing Hiyam, while the young neighbor who was beaten was being held in custody on charges of violation of privacy.

So what? These " arrests" of those who commit " Honor Killings are relatively recent only because of the International Pressure put on them. If they want to be seen as " civilized" to the outside world they have to act " civilized", don't they? Next question would be; What jail sentence would they get?

You know. You really are beginning to sound either stupid or desperate

Who cares if the arrests are "realtively recent" or "becuase of international pressure" (which, oddly, you support when it comes to that but not when it comes to Israel's human rights abuses). The point is that honor killing IS ILLEGAL despite your repeated lies to the contrary. It's NOT LEGAL. Ok, do we understand that one simple fact?

Second issue: I've repeatedly (how many times now?) said - that the law is not yet evenly enforced and the issue which Abbas is commenting on is NOT whether it is to be "outlawed" but whether maximum penalties shall be levied. At the moment Abbas has back pedaled in deference to conservative religious pressure. Ok - are we clear?

It IS illegal.

Maximum penalties are thus far NOT levied.

Those are the only actual facts.

As to the rest of it - if they want to be seen as civilized, YES - they need to get on the ball about this. As does India. As does a host of other countries. Just like Israel needs to get on the ball about incarcerating juvaniles without access to parents or lawyers - for stone throwing. Ok - do you GET IT that being civilized is complicated and not one sided? I for one, absolutely agree that such things as honor killing and casual acceptance of rape in some societies and the acceptance of child abuse in the guise of law enforcement is NOT civilized behavior.

/
Jordan is supposed to be a ' civilized " Arab Country and even there until a few years ago is was 100% accepted! They passed a law ; article 340 which stated husbands would no longer be EXONERATED for murdering unfaithful wives, but the " circumstances" would be considered " evidence" for mitigating his " defense" !!!!! O.K. with that? Of course you are ! " Honor Killings" are considered " just" even if the Husband, Father, Son, Brother SUSPECTS something!!!! If a woman is raped, SHE must have done something to provoke it!!

Ok. Well, first of all - do you have a link? Second of all, Jordan sounds a lot like Brazil in the 1990's and, frankly - Jordan needs to get on the ball. Eventually, it will.

If Jews were doing this in Israel, the Pro Palestinians would be handing out Candy !!!!

And we know that the Pro-Israeli's are already handing out candy for anything that bashes the Palestinians.

Do you think maybe, just once, you can see beyond a pro-Israeli/anti-Palesinian narrative and view the real issues? Like, world wide violence to women? Or do you ONLY care when it's a Muslim issue?

Care to elaborate on the bold ?
As for your last statement, it's funny that you accuse him of solely applying his comments to Muslims, when in reality it is the pro - Palestinians who are solely focusing their criticism and hate on the issues concerning Israel / Palestine conflict, and claiming Israel is committing atrocities, while turning a blind eye to the REAL issues of the Middle East and the ACTUAL countries who are committing atrocities . Why?
Because the Joooos aren't involved.

 

[irosie91]

from ???
"You know. You really are beginning to sound either stupid or desperate
Who cares if the arrests are "realtively recent" or "becuase of international
pressure"
.............................................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The point is that honor killing IS ILLEGAL despite your repeated lies to the
contrary. It's NOT LEGAL. Ok, do we understand that one simple fact?


some time ago-- I (irose) was very roundly critisized for
saying "who cares" ? in reference to honor killings and
other acts of abuse upon women by muslims. ----I am
going to be brave and say it again ----WHO CARES?---
but I have a reason------I live in the USA and had some--
infrequent, minor involvement with the problem -----in which
I was somehing like a consultant.
Regarding this issue----the people who have to be the very
FIRST TO CARE-----are the women themselves -----for the
record----muslim women are under marked pressure to
conform to the demands of their families---and far more
so their husbands and even their in-laws.
The sad reality is that in the issue of husband, in law
---- wife relationship---the people who seem most
adamant about a woman conforming to her husband's
demands----are HER OWN MOTHER and BROTHERS.
My sense is that the MOTHER is key---if a girl's mother
does not care to protect her----based on social pressures,
intervention becomes very difficult. I believe that the
problem will self-correct when muslim mothers get more
"on the side" of their daughters. All MOTHERS have
power in a family------look at the power UM-2boysbostoni
had over her sons

 

[proudveteran06]

She's not lying.

Honor killlings ARE NOT LAWFUL in Palestine. They are against the law. It's there in black and white. The law may not be well enough enforced and the penalties inadequate but it IS against the law. No one is making excuses - they are simply pointing out the FACTS. Gees.

In that last article you printed:

After about an hour, the neighbors called again to inform the police that the girl’s body was in the house. The police went to the home and took Hiyam's body to the hospital. It was later revealed that the father and his son had first strangled Hiyam with a rope, and when that failed to kill her, they used a double wire instead. Batniji confirmed that the father and son had been arrested for killing Hiyam, while the young neighbor who was beaten was being held in custody on charges of violation of privacy.

So what? These " arrests" of those who commit " Honor Killings are relatively recent only because of the International Pressure put on them. If they want to be seen as " civilized" to the outside world they have to act " civilized", don't they? Next question would be; What jail sentence would they get?

You know. You really are beginning to sound either stupid or desperate

Who cares if the arrests are "realtively recent" or "becuase of international pressure" (which, oddly, you support when it comes to that but not when it comes to Israel's human rights abuses). The point is that honor killing IS ILLEGAL despite your repeated lies to the contrary. It's NOT LEGAL. Ok, do we understand that one simple fact?

Second issue: I've repeatedly (how many times now?) said - that the law is not yet evenly enforced and the issue which Abbas is commenting on is NOT whether it is to be "outlawed" but whether maximum penalties shall be levied. At the moment Abbas has back pedaled in deference to conservative religious pressure. Ok - are we clear?

It IS illegal.

Maximum penalties are thus far NOT levied.

Those are the only actual facts.

As to the rest of it - if they want to be seen as civilized, YES - they need to get on the ball about this. As does India. As does a host of other countries. Just like Israel needs to get on the ball about incarcerating juvaniles without access to parents or lawyers - for stone throwing. Ok - do you GET IT that being civilized is complicated and not one sided? I for one, absolutely agree that such things as honor killing and casual acceptance of rape in some societies and the acceptance of child abuse in the guise of law enforcement is NOT civilized behavior.

/
Jordan is supposed to be a ' civilized " Arab Country and even there until a few years ago is was 100% accepted! They passed a law ; article 340 which stated husbands would no longer be EXONERATED for murdering unfaithful wives, but the " circumstances" would be considered " evidence" for mitigating his " defense" !!!!! O.K. with that? Of course you are ! " Honor Killings" are considered " just" even if the Husband, Father, Son, Brother SUSPECTS something!!!! If a woman is raped, SHE must have done something to provoke it!!

Ok. Well, first of all - do you have a link? Second of all, Jordan sounds a lot like Brazil in the 1990's and, frankly - Jordan needs to get on the ball. Eventually, it will.

If Jews were doing this in Israel, the Pro Palestinians would be handing out Candy !!!!

And we know that the Pro-Israeli's are already handing out candy for anything that bashes the Palestinians.

Do you think maybe, just once, you can see beyond a pro-Israeli/anti-Palesinian narrative and view the real issues? Like, world wide violence to women? Or do you ONLY care when it's a Muslim issue?

In the Muslim Religion " Honor Killings " for the most part are overlooked. It is not just "violence" against women . The fact that they may be finally forced to confront this and change their laws just proves that it is legal !!! Tell us please why men are still offered some " latitude" when it comes to " Honor Killings "

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

So what? These " arrests" of those who commit " Honor Killings are relatively recent only because of the International Pressure put on them. If they want to be seen as " civilized" to the outside world they have to act " civilized", don't they? Next question would be; What jail sentence would they get?

You know. You really are beginning to sound either stupid or desperate

Who cares if the arrests are "realtively recent" or "becuase of international pressure" (which, oddly, you support when it comes to that but not when it comes to Israel's human rights abuses). The point is that honor killing IS ILLEGAL despite your repeated lie s to the contrary. It's NOT LEGAL. Ok, do we understand that one simple fact?

Second issue: I've repeatedly (how many times now?) said - that the law is not yet evenly enforced and the issue which Abbas is commenting on is NOT whether it is to be "outlawed" but whether maximum penalties shall be levied. At the moment Abbas has back pedaled in deference to conservative religious pressure. Ok - are we clear?

It IS illegal.

Maximum penalties are thus far NOT levied.

Those are the only actual facts.

As to the rest of it - if they want to be seen as civilized, YES - they need to get on the ball about this. As does India. As does a host of other countries. Just like Israel needs to get on the ball about incarcerating juvaniles without access to parents or lawyers - for stone throwing. Ok - do you GET IT that being civilized is complicated and not one sided? I for one, absolutely agree that such things as honor killing and casual acceptance of rape in some societies and the acceptance of child abuse in the guise of law enforcement is NOT civilized behavior.



Ok. Well, first of all - do you have a link? Second of all, Jordan sounds a lot like Brazil in the 1990's and, frankly - Jordan needs to get on the ball. Eventually, it will.

If Jews were doing this in Israel, the Pro Palestinians would be handing out Candy !!!!

And we know that the Pro-Israeli's are already handing out candy for anything that bashes the Palestinians.

Do you think maybe, just once, you can see beyond a pro-Israeli/anti-Palesinian narrative and view the real issues? Like, world wide violence to women? Or do you ONLY care when it's a Muslim issue?

In the Muslim Religion " Honor Killings " for the most part are overlooked. It is not just "violence" against women . The fact that they may be finally forced to confront this and change their laws just proves that it is legal !!! Tell us please why men are still offered some " latitude" when it comes to " Honor Killings "

HONOR KILLINGS occur all over the world and are not overlooked at all, where the practice occurs people oppose it and try to stop it. IN the Jewish world, baby killing and killing of civilians gets overlooked. LOOK at those 1500 children your Klansmen in Israel killed since 2000. PROUD BABY KILLERS! What can be lower then this deliberate Jewish killing of nonJewish children? WHAT can be more barbaric? AND why does that not bother you?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

THE argument they should just change their laws is funny. The Palestinians live under Occupation. THEY are not free to govern themselves. THE bigoted liar who makes this argument should demand Israel end her Occupation before she accuses Palestinians of doing anything with respect to their laws.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The thread started out about the killing of a mother and speculation it might be an honor killing. AS another poster pointed out, it might be a killing by an Israeli Jew of this mother. We really do not know much about this case at all. It certainly does not prove anything whatsoever about honor killings.