To Those in the Atlanta Area

[Hobbit]

Don't do business with Sutherland owned car dealerships. I know he has a Nissan dealership in Athens, but he has a few more elsewhere. So anyway, here's the deal.

My sister's car, a Volkswagen New Beetle, came from his dealership in Athens. Since it wasn't a Nissan, it hadn't been worked on at the dealership and was for sale 'as is.' That wasn't a problem, as they offered us a Carfax report. However, this report failed to mention that the transmission had been replaced (when we got a Carfax report independantly, we compared and the one he handed us still had the repair on it, labelled 'transmission worked on') and the dealer failed to mention (and he knew this) that it had no transmission fluid in it. The repairs have cost more than the car did, and after numerous dealings with this guy and Carfax, we've basically been told by everyone that 'it's not my problem.' I mean, he didn't even apologize or say he'd like to help, but can't. He basically told us to go sit 'n' spin. Right now, we're working on getting Clark Howard to blow the whistle on these guys, but I thought I'd get a little head start.

 

[Mr. P]

'as is.'

There ya go. And NEVER trust a car dealer to be honest.

 

[glockmail]

[1]....they offered us a Carfax report. However, this report failed to mention that the transmission had been replaced (when we got a Carfax report independantly, we compared and the one he handed us still had the repair on it, labelled 'transmission worked on') and the [2] dealer failed to mention (and he knew this) that it had no transmission fluid in it. .....

It seems like you have a case with the Attorney General:
1. It apears that you are saying that he altered the CarFax report, which is fraud. He could be facing jail time for that.
2. The dealer sold you a working automobile, but one without fluid does not meet that definition. That's breech of contract.

 

[Mr. P]

It seems like you have a case with the Attorney General:
1. It apears that you are saying that he altered the CarFax report, which is fraud. He could be facing jail time for that.
2. The dealer sold you a working automobile, but one without fluid does not meet that definition. That's breech of contract.

He has no case. Carfax is not part of any legal government required doc I know of. It means no more than words from the salesman, which mean nothing according to the Feds.

Caveat Emptor

 

[The ClayTaurus]

He has no case. Carfax is not part of any legal government required doc I know of. It means no more than words from the salesman, which mean nothing according to the Feds.

Caveat Emptor

I wonder about lemon laws...

 

[Mr. P]

I wonder about lemon laws...

Pretty sure that only applies to new cars. Not 100% sure though. Only 99% sure.

 

[glockmail]

He has no case. Carfax is not part of any legal government required doc I know of. It means no more than words from the salesman, which mean nothing according to the Feds.

Caveat Emptor

Just hold on now---

If the dealer presented the buyer with a piece of paper written from Joe Blow that states Fact A and Joe Blow's report does not state Fact A then this is evidence that the dealer altered Joe Blow's report, which is fraud.

 

[Hobbit]

We have no case. The problem with the Carfax thing is that the report he gave us does list the repair job in question, though in non-specific terms. We can't prove that the Carfax report wasn't edited when the nature of the repair was discovered. This guy covered his tracks well, which is why our remaining recourse is to cost the guy millions in lost sales by blowing the whistle on him.

What's worse is that all he had to do to avoid our wrath would be either of the following.

1. Tell us about the transmission before we bought it. We likely still would have bought it and would have repaired it cheaply, rather than having the transmission blow up in mid-trip.

2. Apologize for the incident afterwards and make some sort of effort to make us not mad at him.

 

[jillian]

We have no case. The problem with the Carfax thing is that the report he gave us does list the repair job in question, though in non-specific terms. We can't prove that the Carfax report wasn't edited when the nature of the repair was discovered. This guy covered his tracks well, which is why our remaining recourse is to cost the guy millions in lost sales by blowing the whistle on him.

What's worse is that all he had to do to avoid our wrath would be either of the following.

1. Tell us about the transmission before we bought it. We likely still would have bought it and would have repaired it cheaply, rather than having the transmission blow up in mid-trip.

2. Apologize for the incident afterwards and make some sort of effort to make us not mad at him.

Your state doesn't have a Lemon Law?

 

[90K]

You know a real kick in the pants. I act like I don't need a car when I buy because these sales folks are for the most parts untrust worthy at best. The profit margin on used cars is so much more that even if several thousand boycotted this cat's dealerships he is still making a killing elsewhere. And let me guess ya'll found out about the transmission long after the 48-72 hour return policy?

 

[Hobbit]

You know a real kick in the pants. I act like I don't need a car when I buy because these sales folks are for the most parts untrust worthy at best. The profit margin on used cars is so much more that even if several thousand boycotted this cat's dealerships he is still making a killing elsewhere. And let me guess ya'll found out about the transmission long after the 48-72 hour return policy?

Yep, and as for a Lemon Law, I'm guessing we don't. My dad's pretty well versed in the law, and he doesn't think we have too much of a case right now, though he still hasn't ruled out a suit.

 

[Mr. P]

Yep, and as for a Lemon Law, I'm guessing we don't. My dad's pretty well versed in the law, and he doesn't think we have too much of a case right now, though he still hasn't ruled out a suit.

We have a Lemon Law, Hobbit. It only applies to 'New' cars though.
Section #9 and #11 of 10-1-782. Definitions, make that pretty clear.
http://www.georgia-lemon.com/law.html#top

 

[Hobbit]

We have a Lemon Law, Hobbit. It only applies to 'New' cars though.
Section #9 and #11 of 10-1-782. Definitions, make that pretty clear.
http://www.georgia-lemon.com/law.html#top

Yeah, and we bought the car used.

 

[glockmail]

Yep, and as for a Lemon Law, I'm guessing we don't. My dad's pretty well versed in the law, and he doesn't think we have too much of a case right now, though he still hasn't ruled out a suit.

It should be a slam-dunk.

We bought a 4WD explorer from CarMax a while back. They bragged about their 100 some-odd point check list. Well it turns out the transfer case was stuck in 4WD, even though the dash indicator said it was not. They had us bring the car in, gave us a loaner, and a day later we picked up the car and it still wasn't fixed. I then had them buy the car back from us, based on the fact that they said they inspected it, but in fact had not.

Doesn't this dealer have a similar check list? Even if he doesn't, How can he sell you a car with no tranny fluid in it? Are you, as the buyer, expected to check that before you drive it off his lot? I don't think so.

 

[Mr. P]

It should be a slam-dunk.

We bought a 4WD explorer from CarMax a while back. They bragged about their 100 some-odd point check list. Well it turns out the transfer case was stuck in 4WD, even though the dash indicator said it was not. They had us bring the car in, gave us a loaner, and a day later we picked up the car and it still wasn't fixed. I then had them buy the car back from us, based on the fact that they said they inspected it, but in fact had not.

Doesn't this dealer have a similar check list? Even if he doesn't, How can he sell you a car with no tranny fluid in it? Are you, as the buyer, expected to check that before you drive it off his lot? I don't think so.

CarMax has a policy to do what they did with you, Glock. It's a great company IMO.

The problem here is the car was purchased 'as is', no warranty expressed or implied, which means 'as is'. If you don't check it out before you buy, shame on you.

 

[Hobbit]

It should be a slam-dunk.

We bought a 4WD explorer from CarMax a while back. They bragged about their 100 some-odd point check list. Well it turns out the transfer case was stuck in 4WD, even though the dash indicator said it was not. They had us bring the car in, gave us a loaner, and a day later we picked up the car and it still wasn't fixed. I then had them buy the car back from us, based on the fact that they said they inspected it, but in fact had not.

Doesn't this dealer have a similar check list? Even if he doesn't, How can he sell you a car with no tranny fluid in it? Are you, as the buyer, expected to check that before you drive it off his lot? I don't think so.

Well, I know that, and you know that, but he didn't make any binding guarantees that I know of, other than handing us the Carfax report, and the original Carfax report is correct enough that they've copped out of the buyback guarantee.

 

[Mr. P]

Check this out, Hobbit. Was it on the car? Which box was checked?

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/buyers.pdf

 

[glockmail]

CarMax has a policy to do what they did with you, Glock. It's a great company IMO.

The problem here is the car was purchased 'as is', no warranty expressed or implied, which means 'as is'. If you don't check it out before you buy, shame on you.

I dunno, I think it would be implied that the car would have tranny fluid in it. That's the type of thing you check out every 5000 miles or so. It's no different than expecting the lug nuts to be on tight.

 

[Mr. P]

I dunno, I think it would be implied that the car would have tranny fluid in it. That's the type of thing you check out every 5000 miles or so. It's no different than expecting the lug nuts to be on tight.

Warranties, As Is and Service Contracts

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) requires dealers to put a “Buyers Guide” sticker on all used cars. The Buyers Guide tells you if there is a warranty, no warranty (“AS IS”) or implied warranties. (A warranty is a promise to repair the car.) Examine the label closely. If you see “AS IS,” you would not have any warranty coverage and would have to pay for all repairs yourself, even if the car breaks on the way home.(Some states do not allow “AS IS” sales and require by law certain warranties. These states include Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia and Washington, DC.)

 

[glockmail]

Warranties, As Is and Service Contracts

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) requires dealers to put a “Buyers Guide” sticker on all used cars. The Buyers Guide tells you if there is a warranty, no warranty (“AS IS”) or implied warranties. (A warranty is a promise to repair the car.) Examine the label closely. If you see “AS IS,” you would not have any warranty coverage and would have to pay for all repairs yourself, even if the car breaks on the way home.(Some states do not allow “AS IS” sales and require by law certain warranties. These states include Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia and Washington, DC.)

That's fine, but selling a car with no tranny fluid is the same as lighting a fuse as you drive away, clearly not within the scope of "as is", more like "as will be".