To set the record straight on VN

[CSM]

http://www.mrfa.org/vnstats.htm

Please note the sentiments (expressed in percentages) of those who are proud of their service there. Also please note the composition of forces by race, etc.

I am sick of anti war snots making things up and trying to tell me how soldiers reacted to their experiences in Viet Nam.

If you want more REAL statistics on casualty rates, desertions, etc....well you folks can google as well as anyone else. Just make sure you get past the anti-war bull when you do.

 

[Gunny]

http://www.mrfa.org/vnstats.htm

Please note the sentiments (expressed in percentages) of those who are proud of their service there. Also please note the composition of forces by race, etc.

I am sick of anti war snots making things up and trying to tell me how soldiers reacted to their experiences in Viet Nam.

If you want more REAL statistics on casualty rates, desertions, etc....well you folks can google as well as anyone else. Just make sure you get past the anti-war bull when you do.

The sad truth is, those of us that know better, already knew most of this info in one way or another. Those who refuse to believe it for whatever reason, aren't going to be swayed by your putting facts in their faces.

 

[CSM]

The sad truth is, those of us that know better, already knew most of this info in one way or another. Those who refuse to believe it for whatever reason, aren't going to be swayed by your putting facts in their faces.

Maybe not, but it makes ME feel better! Besides, maybe...just maybe...one of them will have the beginning of an inkling that the anti war lib kool aid is not all its cracked up to me...in any case, I will not be part of the "silent majority".

 

[Gunny]

Maybe not, but it makes ME feel better! Besides, maybe...just maybe...one of them will have the beginning of an inkling that the anti war lib kool aid is not all its cracked up to me...in any case, I will not be part of the "silent majority".

No problem here. You could post it everyday as far as I'm concerned. My father was a Vietnam vet x 2 tours (came back wounded the second time), I was raised in the post Vietnam era Marines by Vietnam vets, and many of my current friends are Vietnam vets.

None of them are crazy (well, maybe one!). All of them have jobs. All of them are proud to have served.

The left crying foul before they even know what the Hell is going on, and in the case of Vietnam even what they are talking about, pisses me off to this day.

 

[Annie]

No problem here. You could post it everyday as far as I'm concerned. My father was a Vietnam vet x 2 tours (came back wounded the second time), I was raised in the post Vietnam era Marines by Vietnam vets, and many of my current friends are Vietnam vets.

None of them are crazy (well, maybe one!). All of them have jobs. All of them are proud to have served.

The left crying foul before they even know what the Hell is going on, and in the case of Vietnam even what they are talking about, pisses me off to this day.

Hard to believe, but I haven't known that many Vietnam Vets. My cousin married one, they were 12 years or more older than myself. He was/is very controlled, but nice. Then again, he is a major buck corporate accountant, so his 'control' may have zippo to do with VN.

One of my neighbors when I was growing up, about 10 years older than myself, enlisted in the Marines after graduating from Stanford on a full ride scholarship. He came back as nice as he had been when timing us kids running around the block, when he was in high school. After the service he was a manager in a national forest in CA for awhile. Then he took a $$$ job, as a sales rep for a liquor distributor. He was killed a few years back, on a road in the Rockies. He left behind his 2 children and wife, a writer for a major news publication.

The only 'sad' case I knew, was a classmate in college. He was 30 when I was 19. He liked MJ alot, which he admitted to being one of his drugs of choice, prior to being drafted. He was a great guy and a Harley guy. He gave me my second, but best ride on a bike. When I first met him, he was sober, through Narc. anonymous. But after we parted, me onto university, I got a call that he'd OD'd and died. It was then that I first experienced how 'tight' the military was, as they closed ranks on his parents at the funeral. The parents blamed VN for his drug use, but he'd made it clear to his friends, including myself, that the use started prior to service, but VN didn't help. He was so smart, but couldn't get rid of that monkey.

 

[Gunny]

Hard to believe, but I haven't known that many Vietnam Vets. My cousin married one, they were 12 years or more older than myself. He was/is very controlled, but nice. Then again, he is a major buck corporate accountant, so his 'control' may have zippo to do with VN.

One of my neighbors when I was growing up, about 10 years older than myself, enlisted in the Marines after graduating from Stanford on a full ride scholarship. He came back as nice as he had been when timing us kids running around the block, when he was in high school. After the service he was a manager in a national forest in CA for awhile. Then he took a $$$ job, as a sales rep for a liquor distributor. He was killed a few years back, on a road in the Rockies. He left behind his 2 children and wife, a writer for a major news publication.

The only 'sad' case I knew, was a classmate in college. He was 30 when I was 19. He liked MJ alot, which he admitted to being one of his drugs of choice, prior to being drafted. He was a great guy and a Harley guy. He gave me my second, but best ride on a bike. When I first met him, he was sober, through Narc. anonymous. But after we parted, me onto university, I got a call that he'd OD'd and died. It was then that I first experienced how 'tight' the military was, as they closed ranks on his parents at the funeral. The parents blamed VN for his drug use, but he'd made it clear to his friends, including myself, that the use started prior to service, but VN didn't help. He was so smart, but couldn't get rid of that monkey.

If you look downtown in any major city, you will find those same people in varying degrees who have never seen even a minute in uniform. They are psychologically flawed people, and I am NOT passing judgement in saying that.

War is a hard thing. I jsut have a real problem with people blaming all their ills on that, or opportunizing on it, as Kerry did, for personal gain. Yes, there are those who will probably be screwed up for life because of it. Then there are those who will claim so in an attempt to get attention and a free ride, if they can.

The Vietnam War nowadays is pretty much defined as a war of crimes, US troops run amock, and vets who can't hold jobs because war screwed up their heads, when in each case, those were exceptions rather than the rule.

In comparison, look how the war in Iraq is defined. Noncombatant casualties, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and "Bush lied."

As far as I am concerned, anyone who believes and parrots that crap just hates this country and wants us to lose. And keep in mind, only a loss in Iraq vindicates the accusations from the left. Success makes them windbags and fools.

In the cases of then and now, partisan politics and unrealistic idealism are more important to one side of the political spectrum than what is best for this Nation.

 

[Annie]

If you look downtown in any major city, you will find those same people in varying degrees who have never seen even a minute in uniform. They are psychologically flawed people, and I am NOT passing judgement in saying that.

War is a hard thing. I jsut have a real problem with people blaming all their ills on that, or opportunizing on it, as Kerry did, for personal gain. Yes, there are those who will probably be screwed up for life because of it. Then there are those who will claim so in an attempt to get attention and a free ride, if they can.

The Vietnam War nowadays is pretty much defined as a war of crimes, US troops run amock, and vets who can't hold jobs because war screwed up their heads, when in each case, those were exceptions rather than the rule.

In comparison, look how the war in Iraq is defined. Noncombatant casualties, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and "Bush lied."

As far as I am concerned, anyone who believes and parrots that crap just hates this country and wants us to lose. And keep in mind, only a loss in Iraq vindicates the accusations from the left. Success makes them windbags and fools.

In the cases of then and now, partisan politics and unrealistic idealism are more important to one side of the political spectrum than what is best for this Nation.

That is what I was trying to make clear. He went into the service screwed up, though he would not have enlisted, unlike my cousin's husband or my neighbor. The war may have compounded his problem, but the problem was his, which he owned. His parents, 8 years after the war, but more years since he began to screw around with the drugs, blamed the war.

The 'military friends', supported and contained the parents. No one was allowed in their presence to 'correct their viewpoint', but at the same time, the curtailed the parents' spreading blame of his overdose onto being caused by his service. I heard a couple of vets say, "that's not what _____ would have said."

 

[Gunny]

That is what I was trying to make clear. He went into the service screwed up, though he would not have enlisted, unlike my cousin's husband or my neighbor. The war may have compounded his problem, but the problem was his, which he owned. His parents, 8 years after the war, but more years since he began to screw around with the drugs, blamed the war.

The 'military friends', supported and contained the parents. No one was allowed in their presence to 'correct their viewpoint', but at the same time, the curtailed the parents' spreading blame of his overdose onto being caused by his service. I heard a couple of vets say, "that's not what _____ would have said."

That all goes to personal accountability. Sounds like your friend knew it was him, while his parents couldn't accept that.

Look at Cindy Sheehan. Her son joined the Army against her will, and went to war against her will, even when she offered him an out. From what I see, she has completely deflected from the fact that her son rejected her BS idealism to blaming Bush for his death.

Some people are willing to accept the consequences of their actions and some are not. And then some are unwilling to accept the fact that they raised their children as best they could but once adults, they make decisions beyond parental control. It boils down to feeling guilty as parents that perhaps they screwed up, rather than the child.

 

[Annie]

That all goes to personal accountability. Sounds like your friend knew it was him, while his parents couldn't accept that.

Look at Cindy Sheehan. Her son joined the Army against her will, and went to war against her will, even when she offered him an out. From what I see, she has completely deflected from the fact that her son rejected her BS idealism to blaming Bush for his death.

Some people are willing to accept the consequences of their actions and some are not. And then some are unwilling to accept the fact that they raised their children as best they could but once adults, they make decisions beyond parental control. It boils down to feeling guilty as parents that perhaps they screwed up, rather than the child.

Yep, Casey and my friend were opposits. Casey recognized the good, while my friend was haunted by demons.

The parents, well they were of other generations than their sons. It seems the military protects them as well, to an extent. For both cases, I salute them. They are covering those that loved their comrades.

 

[Gunny]

Yep, Casey and my friend were opposits. Casey recognized the good, while my friend was haunted by demons.

The parents, well they were of other generations than their sons. It seems the military protects them as well, to an extent. For both cases, I salute them. They are covering those that loved their comrades.

It's an individual thing much like bravery. A hero in one conflict could turn and run in the next. The guy you expect to be gung-ho gets real quiet while the mousey dude who can barely hump his pack steps up.

Unless the flaw is obvious, there is no known formula. What it boils down to with most is doing your job so you don't let your fellow Marines down, and after that, whatever you have to do to get home.

I

 

[Annie]

It's an individual thing much like bravery. A hero in one conflict could turn and run in the next. The guy you expect to be gung-ho gets real quiet while the mousey dude who can barely hump his pack steps up.

Unless the flaw is obvious, there is no known formula. What it boils down to with most is doing your job so you don't let your fellow Marines down, and after that, whatever you have to do to get home.

I

I have no idea on how Timmy would have acted in any war. My guess, he was flawed entering. Would have been the same in 1972 or 2002-though of course we would have had to have held his age 'stable.'

Really, nothing funny about Timmy, other than two of his friends, lovers when he knew them, ended up on opposit ends of spectrum, many years later.

 

[nt250]

It's pretty amazing how few people know the real facts about Vietnam and those who served in the military during that time. It was quite an eye opener for me, when during the last election I read the Swift Boat site. From there I found other sites like wintersoldier.com where I read more tales of veterans.

The lies that have been told, and perpetuated still, are pretty mind boggling. Blatant lies. And not just by the nut jobs, but by the mainstream media. I can't recount every instance I read about two years ago. There were too many. A documentary on CBS that made every Vietnam Vet out to be a war criminal and drug addict. I can't keep all the instances straight.

Blatant lies. And the glee that some have in passing those lies on? That's the part I really don't understand and never will.

It really does boil down to hatred of this country. There is no other explanation for it. The total lack of the basic ability to see things from another perspective other that to blame America first.

During the election, John O'Neill said that over 2 million people served in Vietnam and the vast majority of them served honorably, and came back and lived happy, productive lives. Nobody wanted to hear that. They would rather believe the myth of the baby killing, spit upon, whacked out Vietnam Vet.

John Kerry will always have that to answer for because he, more than anyone else, is responsible for those lies.

But liberals won't see anything beyond me blaming him. They don't get it and they never will.