Time, once again, to make some liberal heads explode.

[Wry Catcher]

Check this out. One of the safest cities in America, with a population of over 200,000 is Gilbert, AZ. Why will this make liberal heads explode? Well, you see, in Arizona, you can buy a gun online, or from a friend, without a background check. Also, you do not need a permit to carry a concealed firearm. All those guns floating around. The streets should be running with blood. But they aren't. Would any of you libtards care to explain this?

Let's take a look at the population:
Gilbert Arizona Economic Development

From the link:

"72.5% of Gilbert’s psychographic make-up consists of "Up and Coming Families", "Soccer Moms" and "Boomburbs". The "Up and Coming Families" segment is characterized by an average age of 30.7 and a median household income of $64,000. The "Soccer Moms" segment is characterized by a median age of 36.6 and a median household income of $84,000. The "Boomburbs" segment is characterized by a median age of 33.6 and a median household income of $105,000."

The whole point of this post is to show that guns are not the problem. Thanks for backing me up on that.

LOL Violent crime & demographics is not a simple explanation, but below is one example of why your OP is only one data point and not proof of anything.

Vallejo, California Population 2016, 2015

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Vallejo-California.html

 

[hadit]

The logical fallacy known as false cause. You have no way of proving the crime rate is low because of gun policy..

But it IS a factor that cannot be ignored. By all means, look at ALL factors, like racial diversity, economics, overall contentment, etc. But, given the level of discourse we've been seeing, easy access to guns SHOULD result in high death rates, yet here it does not.

Just possessing or buying a gun doesnt mean you are going to shoot someone. Whats more important is that avenue is cut off for those that buy guns with the intent of shooting someone. I'll tell you a story about why I dont carry a gun with me anymore. i almost shot a cop that pulled me over for no reason. Luckily the guy didnt make me get out of the car or i would have shot him. He just asked me some questions then backed off when I asked for his badge number. I had just had my first child and had to make a decision after that episode. If I didnt have access to a gun it wouldnt have gotten that close.

I don't own a gun either, because I don't want to be responsible for someone getting hurt in spite of every precaution. Guns themselves, however, are not really the problem when it comes to violence. I think that even a total ban on guns would make people feel better about themselves for a while, but not make any difference in the total number of violent deaths.

if it were actually possible to get all or most guns off the street it would make a huge difference. Not too many people want to get close enough to their target to possibly end up being a victim themselves. Guns are a lot like alcohol.Its false courage. They make people brave that would otherwise back down.

And therein lies the problem. The guns are already out there and trying to eliminate them will only disarm the victim side of the population. SOME people might gain false courage from being armed, but a lot don't. It is not accurate to make such a blanket statement about ALL gun owners.

 

[Timmy]

murder rates per 100k

Arizona : 5.5

Mass: 3.2

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take a good look at that list. Notice how states with a higher percentage of gun owners have less murders? And look at The District of Columbia!! 3.6 percent gun ownership, and it has several times the number of murders of any state. By the way, most murders take place in just four cities. If we eliminate those deaths, America is one of the safest countries to live in. And those cities are also run by Democrats. Go figure.

What does it matter if there are illegals around ? More guns = more safety ! You started this thread based on that premis . Using arizona law as some grand example. In reality Arizona is at the top of gun violence .

 

[mgh80]

And you will in turn, do what? Prove him wrong? How?

Shoot holes in his claim like I already did. Do you have some proof the crime rate is low because there are lots of guns floating around? Thats what I am interested in seeing instead of you playing captain save a ho for the OP.

There is evidence/statistics that suggest that there is no correlation between states with higher rates of gun ownership and gun homicide.

So where is this evidence, who paid to find this evidence, and what does that have to do with the OP's claim?

It's directly from the FBI, I can provide links if you'd like me to.

You didnt actually answer my question and yes i would like a link.

What was your question? If it's from the FBI, then obviously taxpayers paid for it. As for the purpose in me brining it up, is that in order for something to be proven as true, we need to reject the null hypothesis, which is what I was addressing.

To put it simply: instead of proving that places with more guns have lower crime (in this case homicide rates), we need to reject the idea that notion that places with fewer guns are indeed safer. The evidence I'm providing shows that there's no correlation between states with higher homicide rates and gun ownership (this is actually also true if we look at "Wester Countries" on a global scale-I can also provide evidence for this as well if you wish).

I also decided to add additional FACTS in links. Basically here are the main points:

-Gun homicides have been declining in recent years (despite the sensationalism that the media portrays)

I think the above is very important to point out because with 24/7 news, and social media it's easy to get wrapped in the hysteria that's created after mass shooting (I live in Tampa-about a hour or so away from Orlando and knew a victim-I assure you there was tons of hysteria that even I got caught up in). But we need to take a step back and look at facts to make informed decision, and not just get caught up in the emotions of events. It's how the government took our rights away after 9/11, and it's how they'll do so again.

-Handguns are utilized in the overwhelming amount of gun homicides (NOT "assault weapons/rifles")

Here's a wikipedia page (with citations at the bottom), it's an easy chart to look at and compare the (lack of) correlation together:

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CBS news also reported on gun ownership rates, which are very similar (the other link is about 5-6 years old)

Most heavily-armed states in America


Table 20

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[Lutroo]

Check this out. One of the safest cities in America, with a population of over 200,000 is Gilbert, AZ. Why will this make liberal heads explode? Well, you see, in Arizona, you can buy a gun online, or from a friend, without a background check. Also, you do not need a permit to carry a concealed firearm. All those guns floating around. The streets should be running with blood. But they aren't. Would any of you libtards care to explain this?

The average household income is $80K. You just don't get a lot of crime when everyone has plenty of money.

So you agree that it's not the guns fault.

 

[Zoom-boing]

You're lying. They're direct links to your comments/my replies to you in that thread. Posts # 63, 66, 73, 75. I copied the number post and I've clicked on all four and they show the posts listed, not four pages of conversation. Weak attempt at dodging.

Why don't you answer my question??

When you said "the left" in this thread were you referring to some or all of the left?

Um, your links start at post #121, dumbass. You've been here since 2008 and posted over 23,000 comments and you still don't know how to post a quote??? When you figure out how to do that, then do it and let me know. I'm not gonna go looking for it, stupid.

No they don't. They link to the post #s I listed.

I've even given you the post #s - 63, 66, 73, 75 - and you still refuse to even bother to go read your responses to me. That's because your comment in this thread drew the same nit picking that you showed me in that thread, and you know it.

Why don't you answer the question I've asked three time in this thread? Go ahead.

Again, this is all to point out that you should get off your high horse when you nit pick other posters posts then turn around and do same in your own posts.

Because I still don't know what quote you're talking about. Why don't you just post the ******* quote instead of expecting me to search it out myself?

Post #s given, twice. Done spoon feeding you.

Doesn't matter, you've already given me your answer with your complete avoidance of answering my question in this thread.

Bookmarked ... in case you nit pick someone again.

Here's how it works, asshole. You make a claim referencing a comment made by someone, YOU post the quote. If you're too stupid to know how to do that, it's not my problem. I'm not gonna do the work for you. Post it or STFU. Comprende?

Not cluttering this thread with four quoted posts from another thread. I posted the thread, I posted the post numbers, several times, info is two clicks away. You must be feeble that you can't click twice. You did the same damn thing in this thread that I did in the other thread. You said "the left"; I said "conservatives". I didn't mean "every single conservative" anymore than you meant "every single leftist" ... unless you did mean every single leftist. We'll never know as you pussied out answering me, every time. Anyway, for whatever retarded reason you felt the need to rag on me so I'm just returning the favor. Next time you put your nose in the air demanding other posters adhere to whatever your posting 'requirements' are, you better ******* make sure you do the same.

 

[auditor0007]

Check this out. One of the safest cities in America, with a population of over 200,000 is Gilbert, AZ. Why will this make liberal heads explode? Well, you see, in Arizona, you can buy a gun online, or from a friend, without a background check. Also, you do not need a permit to carry a concealed firearm. All those guns floating around. The streets should be running with blood. But they aren't. Would any of you libtards care to explain this?

The average household income is $80K. You just don't get a lot of crime when everyone has plenty of money.

So you agree that it's not the guns fault.

You're right. Give everyone an $80K household income,and there would be a lot less shootings, but put guns in the hands of poor people with little education, and you get massive gun deaths. We all know the gun is not at fault. What you can't seem to grasp is the fact that when guns are out there, more people die. Sure you can point to a community of gun owners with high incomes who don't fit the normal pattern, but that doesn't change facts.

 

[Asclepias]

The logical fallacy known as false cause. You have no way of proving the crime rate is low because of gun policy..

But it IS a factor that cannot be ignored. By all means, look at ALL factors, like racial diversity, economics, overall contentment, etc. But, given the level of discourse we've been seeing, easy access to guns SHOULD result in high death rates, yet here it does not.

Just possessing or buying a gun doesnt mean you are going to shoot someone. Whats more important is that avenue is cut off for those that buy guns with the intent of shooting someone. I'll tell you a story about why I dont carry a gun with me anymore. i almost shot a cop that pulled me over for no reason. Luckily the guy didnt make me get out of the car or i would have shot him. He just asked me some questions then backed off when I asked for his badge number. I had just had my first child and had to make a decision after that episode. If I didnt have access to a gun it wouldnt have gotten that close.

I don't own a gun either, because I don't want to be responsible for someone getting hurt in spite of every precaution. Guns themselves, however, are not really the problem when it comes to violence. I think that even a total ban on guns would make people feel better about themselves for a while, but not make any difference in the total number of violent deaths.

if it were actually possible to get all or most guns off the street it would make a huge difference. Not too many people want to get close enough to their target to possibly end up being a victim themselves. Guns are a lot like alcohol.Its false courage. They make people brave that would otherwise back down.

And therein lies the problem. The guns are already out there and trying to eliminate them will only disarm the victim side of the population. SOME people might gain false courage from being armed, but a lot don't. It is not accurate to make such a blanket statement about ALL gun owners.

Its pretty accurate if you understand humans. If a gun didnt make people feel secure they wouldnt have them except to hunt. Whats the number one marketing tactic that gun makers use. The old fear of loss psychology. in this particular case its loss of security which ranks right up their with the instinct to survive. You cant be that naive to believe the vast majority of people dont own guns out of fear. Having one makes them feel braver and more secure.

 

[Asclepias]

Shoot holes in his claim like I already did. Do you have some proof the crime rate is low because there are lots of guns floating around? Thats what I am interested in seeing instead of you playing captain save a ho for the OP.

There is evidence/statistics that suggest that there is no correlation between states with higher rates of gun ownership and gun homicide.

So where is this evidence, who paid to find this evidence, and what does that have to do with the OP's claim?

It's directly from the FBI, I can provide links if you'd like me to.

You didnt actually answer my question and yes i would like a link.

What was your question? If it's from the FBI, then obviously taxpayers paid for it. As for the purpose in me brining it up, is that in order for something to be proven as true, we need to reject the null hypothesis, which is what I was addressing.

To put it simply: instead of proving that places with more guns have lower crime (in this case homicide rates), we need to reject the idea that notion that places with fewer guns are indeed safer. The evidence I'm providing shows that there's no correlation between states with higher homicide rates and gun ownership (this is actually also true if we look at "Wester Countries" on a global scale-I can also provide evidence for this as well if you wish).

I also decided to add additional FACTS in links. Basically here are the main points:

-Gun homicides have been declining in recent years (despite the sensationalism that the media portrays)

I think the above is very important to point out because with 24/7 news, and social media it's easy to get wrapped in the hysteria that's created after mass shooting (I live in Tampa-about a hour or so away from Orlando and knew a victim-I assure you there was tons of hysteria that even I got caught up in). But we need to take a step back and look at facts to make informed decision, and not just get caught up in the emotions of events. It's how the government took our rights away after 9/11, and it's how they'll do so again.

-Handguns are utilized in the overwhelming amount of gun homicides (NOT "assault weapons/rifles")

Here's a wikipedia page (with citations at the bottom), it's an easy chart to look at and compare the (lack of) correlation together:

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CBS news also reported on gun ownership rates, which are very similar (the other link is about 5-6 years old)

Most heavily-armed states in America


Table 20

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Your post betrays a puerile assessment of the situation just like the OP. No matter how many links you put in your post none of them have proven that accessibility of fire arms is the reason for low crime. Your argument falls down and busts its lip on the pavement because of the simple fact that nothing ever happens in a vacuum. There are other dynamics at work and not understanding that pretty much assures me that your intelligence level is not ready to take on a comprehensive understanding of the issue. Sorry man.

 

[S.J.]

Um, your links start at post #121, dumbass. You've been here since 2008 and posted over 23,000 comments and you still don't know how to post a quote??? When you figure out how to do that, then do it and let me know. I'm not gonna go looking for it, stupid.

No they don't. They link to the post #s I listed.

I've even given you the post #s - 63, 66, 73, 75 - and you still refuse to even bother to go read your responses to me. That's because your comment in this thread drew the same nit picking that you showed me in that thread, and you know it.

Why don't you answer the question I've asked three time in this thread? Go ahead.

Again, this is all to point out that you should get off your high horse when you nit pick other posters posts then turn around and do same in your own posts.

Because I still don't know what quote you're talking about. Why don't you just post the ******* quote instead of expecting me to search it out myself?

Post #s given, twice. Done spoon feeding you.

Doesn't matter, you've already given me your answer with your complete avoidance of answering my question in this thread.

Bookmarked ... in case you nit pick someone again.

Here's how it works, asshole. You make a claim referencing a comment made by someone, YOU post the quote. If you're too stupid to know how to do that, it's not my problem. I'm not gonna do the work for you. Post it or STFU. Comprende?

Not cluttering this thread with four quoted posts from another thread. I posted the thread, I posted the post numbers, several times, info is two clicks away. You must be feeble that you can't click twice. You did the same damn thing in this thread that I did in the other thread. You said "the left"; I said "conservatives". I didn't mean "every single conservative" anymore than you meant "every single leftist" ... unless you did mean every single leftist. We'll never know as you pussied out answering me, every time. Anyway, for whatever retarded reason you felt the need to rag on me so I'm just returning the favor. Next time you put your nose in the air demanding other posters adhere to whatever your posting 'requirements' are, you better ******* make sure you do the same.

Kiss my ass. You demand I respond to a comment you say I made but can't post it. You can post 4 links to pages that have no comments from me, but can't post the ******* comment you claim I made, then say you don't want to clutter the thread with the actual comments??? If you're too stupid to know how to post it, just say so. If you're too proud to admit you're too stupid to know how to post it, you should just STFU and hope nobody notices how stupid you are.

 

[JBond]

Check this out. One of the safest cities in America, with a population of over 200,000 is Gilbert, AZ. Why will this make liberal heads explode? Well, you see, in Arizona, you can buy a gun online, or from a friend, without a background check. Also, you do not need a permit to carry a concealed firearm. All those guns floating around. The streets should be running with blood. But they aren't. Would any of you libtards care to explain this?

The entire State of Kansas enjoys Constitutional Carry. The blood bath wild west, predicted by the left, never happened.

 

[dannyboys]

Gilbert is just a rich suburb of Phoenix. Phoenix is the real city and you can see that Phoenix gun crime is a lot higher than say liberal cities like Boston.

Great n nuts are great wh misleading stats.

99.9% of violent crimes involving a gun in Phoenix are committed by ******* gang-bangers who use ILLEGAL guns!
******* grow up asshole!
Send in 10K NG and take all the illegal guns away from the gang-bangers and the crime rate involving a gun in Phoenix will drop to ******* ZERO!..........until the mexican cartels replace the confiscated illegal guns.

 

[dannyboys]

Check this out. One of the safest cities in America, with a population of over 200,000 is Gilbert, AZ. Why will this make liberal heads explode? Well, you see, in Arizona, you can buy a gun online, or from a friend, without a background check. Also, you do not need a permit to carry a concealed firearm. All those guns floating around. The streets should be running with blood. But they aren't. Would any of you libtards care to explain this?

There is a reason the Mexican Cartels like AZ's lax gun laws. Can you guess what it is?

God you're a ******* dummy!
Do you think the mexican cartels give a ******* shit about 'gun laws'?
Do you know about a place in America named 'Chicago'? You know. The place where they have the strictest 'gun laws' in the country.
Cartel leader: "Well I guess we can't do business in Chicago what with their strict gun laws".
You REALLY need to take your head out of your asshole pal.

 

[dannyboys]

The logical fallacy known as false cause. You have no way of proving the crime rate is low because of gun policy..

Hint.

Small negro population> small number of violent crimes.
Large negro population> large number of violent crimes.
Don't want your family to risk getting assaulted/raped/robbed/shot>don't live where the population 'gets the day in' committing these crimes.
Basic logic 101.

 

[dannyboys]

Check this out. One of the safest cities in America, with a population of over 200,000 is Gilbert, AZ. Why will this make liberal heads explode? Well, you see, in Arizona, you can buy a gun online, or from a friend, without a background check. Also, you do not need a permit to carry a concealed firearm. All those guns floating around. The streets should be running with blood. But they aren't. Would any of you libtards care to explain this?

The average household income is $80K. You just don't get a lot of crime when everyone has plenty of money.

People who earn a lot of money are generally very smart. They worked hard to get a good education while other students partied. They are careful with their money. Those who choose to own guns do so legally. They do not drive around at night with a bunch of other ******* losers seeing who they can rape/assault/rob.
Oh ya. And they are White.

 

[dannyboys]

murder rates per 100k

Arizona : 5.5

Mass: 3.2

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take a good look at that list. Notice how states with a higher percentage of gun owners have less murders? And look at The District of Columbia!! 3.6 percent gun ownership, and it has several times the number of murders of any state. By the way, most murders take place in just four cities. If we eliminate those deaths, America is one of the safest countries to live in. And those cities are also run by Democrats. Go figure.

What does it matter if there are illegals around ? More guns = more safety ! You started this thread based on that premis . Using arizona law as some grand example. In reality Arizona is at the top of gun violence .

The only 'gun violence' is in Arizona's inner city negro/latino shitholes dominated by ******* gang-bangers.
Take an hours drive into the country and 'gun violence' drops to ******* ZERO!

 

[Wilbur Right]

Suicides on the rise in Arizona
Michelle Reese, Tribune | Updated Oct 20, 2010

Arizona's suicide rate is ticking upward, sparking grave concern among health officials.


In 2007, there were 15.4 suicides per 100,000 people, said Markay Adams, a suicide prevention coordinator with the Arizona Department of Health Services' behavioral health division. Last year, that grew to 16.1 per 100,000 people

"We've been consistently higher in the past 10 years, which is something that's not uncommon among the Western states," Adams said, noting experts have not targeted a reason behind the Western states' higher rates. "We continue to see that men have a higher rate than women, but females do attempt more."

The most recent national rate, from 2007, is 11.3 suicides per 100,000 people.

This week, the Arizona Suicide Prevention Coalition is hosting a statewide conference that will address suicide among teens, Native Americans and middle-age men.

Just as bullying and suicide makes national headlines, Alan Berman, a national expert on the topic, will also speak.

Adams said there is a push among public health officials to break the stigma attached to suicidal thoughts - making it easier for people to discuss it and seek help.

"We do want people to seek treatment, whether it's for mental health or substance abuse or other underlying factors that puts them at increased risk for suicide," she said. "About 90 percent of those who die by suicide have a history of depression or substance abuse."

The American Association of Suicidology recently made a statement that there is "no clear association with times of economic recession," and suicide rates, but there is a "clear and direct relationship between rates of unemployment and suicide."

Arizona's unemployment rate in August was the highest it's been in nearly 30 years, at 9.7 percent.

"We don't know what will make one person at risk. Someone may feel a loss of a job and foreclosure and not have any thoughts of suicide," Adams said.

The state recently received a second federal grant to address suicide among youth and Native Americans, Adams said.

Stress in families may be leading to an increase in calls to Teen LifeLine, said Nikki Kontz, the group's clinical coordinator and a licensed master's level social worker.

"Traditionally we had it where it might be a situation or a breakdown within a child or a system in the child's life," Kontz said. "Now what we're seeing is an increase in calls and, even more than that, there's an entire breakdown in the family unit."

Teen LifeLine works to get resources to those who call. Kontz said in the past she's made more referrals to counseling or substance abuse programs for teen in need of help. Today, Teen LifeLine is referring entire families to counseling for stress and financial issues, as well as finding them a shelter or food.

"Kids aren't necessarily able to verbally communicate the stresses in the family. Developmentally in children it comes out in other areas. When there's stress in the entirely family they're not able to articulate that. They can't articulate that parents are having a tough time keeping us afloat ... They see mom and dad are fighting more or are more stressed - an increase in family stress that ultimately causes stress to kids."

September was Suicide Prevention Month and Markay's group led a number of school officials through awareness training and activities.

"There is a lot of collaboration. Across the state there's different opportunities whether it's depression screening or bullying interventions," she said.

3



More Information
• Arizona Suicide Prevention Coalition,www.azspc.org, is hosting a statewide conference Oct. 21-22 which will feature Alan Berman, a national expert, who will speak on suicide and bullying.

• National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, (800) 273-8255 orwww.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

• Teen LifeLine (800) 248-TEEN or (800) 248-8255



Risk Factors for Suicide
Biopsychosocial Risk Factors

· Mental disorders, particularly mood disorders, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders and certain personality disorders

· Alcohol and other substance use disorders

· Hopelessness

· Impulsive and/or aggressive tendencies

· History of trauma or abuse

· Some major physical illnesses

· Previous suicide attempt

· Family history of suicide

Environmental Risk Factors

· Job or financial loss

· Relational or social loss

· Easy access to lethal means

· Local clusters of suicide that have a contagious influence

Sociocultural Risk Factors

· Lack of social support and sense of isolation

· Stigma associated with help-seeking behavior

· Barriers to accessing health care, especially mental health and substance abuse treatment

· Certain cultural and religious beliefs (for instance, the belief that suicide is a noble resolution of a personal dilemma)

· Exposure to suicide, including through the media, and influence of others who have died by suicide

Source: Arizona Department of Health Services


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Easy access to lethal means. What's that telling you about the increase in guns and rising suicide rates?

 

[Rustic]

Suicides on the rise in Arizona
Michelle Reese, Tribune | Updated Oct 20, 2010

Arizona's suicide rate is ticking upward, sparking grave concern among health officials.


In 2007, there were 15.4 suicides per 100,000 people, said Markay Adams, a suicide prevention coordinator with the Arizona Department of Health Services' behavioral health division. Last year, that grew to 16.1 per 100,000 people

"We've been consistently higher in the past 10 years, which is something that's not uncommon among the Western states," Adams said, noting experts have not targeted a reason behind the Western states' higher rates. "We continue to see that men have a higher rate than women, but females do attempt more."

The most recent national rate, from 2007, is 11.3 suicides per 100,000 people.

This week, the Arizona Suicide Prevention Coalition is hosting a statewide conference that will address suicide among teens, Native Americans and middle-age men.

Just as bullying and suicide makes national headlines, Alan Berman, a national expert on the topic, will also speak.

Adams said there is a push among public health officials to break the stigma attached to suicidal thoughts - making it easier for people to discuss it and seek help.

"We do want people to seek treatment, whether it's for mental health or substance abuse or other underlying factors that puts them at increased risk for suicide," she said. "About 90 percent of those who die by suicide have a history of depression or substance abuse."

The American Association of Suicidology recently made a statement that there is "no clear association with times of economic recession," and suicide rates, but there is a "clear and direct relationship between rates of unemployment and suicide."

Arizona's unemployment rate in August was the highest it's been in nearly 30 years, at 9.7 percent.

"We don't know what will make one person at risk. Someone may feel a loss of a job and foreclosure and not have any thoughts of suicide," Adams said.

The state recently received a second federal grant to address suicide among youth and Native Americans, Adams said.

Stress in families may be leading to an increase in calls to Teen LifeLine, said Nikki Kontz, the group's clinical coordinator and a licensed master's level social worker.

"Traditionally we had it where it might be a situation or a breakdown within a child or a system in the child's life," Kontz said. "Now what we're seeing is an increase in calls and, even more than that, there's an entire breakdown in the family unit."

Teen LifeLine works to get resources to those who call. Kontz said in the past she's made more referrals to counseling or substance abuse programs for teen in need of help. Today, Teen LifeLine is referring entire families to counseling for stress and financial issues, as well as finding them a shelter or food.

"Kids aren't necessarily able to verbally communicate the stresses in the family. Developmentally in children it comes out in other areas. When there's stress in the entirely family they're not able to articulate that. They can't articulate that parents are having a tough time keeping us afloat ... They see mom and dad are fighting more or are more stressed - an increase in family stress that ultimately causes stress to kids."

September was Suicide Prevention Month and Markay's group led a number of school officials through awareness training and activities.

"There is a lot of collaboration. Across the state there's different opportunities whether it's depression screening or bullying interventions," she said.

3



More Information
• Arizona Suicide Prevention Coalition,www.azspc.org, is hosting a statewide conference Oct. 21-22 which will feature Alan Berman, a national expert, who will speak on suicide and bullying.

• National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, (800) 273-8255 orwww.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

• Teen LifeLine (800) 248-TEEN or (800) 248-8255



Risk Factors for Suicide
Biopsychosocial Risk Factors

· Mental disorders, particularly mood disorders, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders and certain personality disorders

· Alcohol and other substance use disorders

· Hopelessness

· Impulsive and/or aggressive tendencies

· History of trauma or abuse

· Some major physical illnesses

· Previous suicide attempt

· Family history of suicide

Environmental Risk Factors

· Job or financial loss

· Relational or social loss

· Easy access to lethal means

· Local clusters of suicide that have a contagious influence

Sociocultural Risk Factors

· Lack of social support and sense of isolation

· Stigma associated with help-seeking behavior

· Barriers to accessing health care, especially mental health and substance abuse treatment

· Certain cultural and religious beliefs (for instance, the belief that suicide is a noble resolution of a personal dilemma)

· Exposure to suicide, including through the media, and influence of others who have died by suicide

Source: Arizona Department of Health Services


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Easy access to lethal means. What's that telling you about the increase in guns and rising suicide rates?

Na, suicide is a personal and a cowardly choice... Guns have nothing to do with the decision-making. Dip shit
Lol

 

[dannyboys]

Suicides on the rise in Arizona
Michelle Reese, Tribune | Updated Oct 20, 2010

Arizona's suicide rate is ticking upward, sparking grave concern among health officials.


In 2007, there were 15.4 suicides per 100,000 people, said Markay Adams, a suicide prevention coordinator with the Arizona Department of Health Services' behavioral health division. Last year, that grew to 16.1 per 100,000 people

"We've been consistently higher in the past 10 years, which is something that's not uncommon among the Western states," Adams said, noting experts have not targeted a reason behind the Western states' higher rates. "We continue to see that men have a higher rate than women, but females do attempt more."

The most recent national rate, from 2007, is 11.3 suicides per 100,000 people.

This week, the Arizona Suicide Prevention Coalition is hosting a statewide conference that will address suicide among teens, Native Americans and middle-age men.

Just as bullying and suicide makes national headlines, Alan Berman, a national expert on the topic, will also speak.

Adams said there is a push among public health officials to break the stigma attached to suicidal thoughts - making it easier for people to discuss it and seek help.

"We do want people to seek treatment, whether it's for mental health or substance abuse or other underlying factors that puts them at increased risk for suicide," she said. "About 90 percent of those who die by suicide have a history of depression or substance abuse."

The American Association of Suicidology recently made a statement that there is "no clear association with times of economic recession," and suicide rates, but there is a "clear and direct relationship between rates of unemployment and suicide."

Arizona's unemployment rate in August was the highest it's been in nearly 30 years, at 9.7 percent.

"We don't know what will make one person at risk. Someone may feel a loss of a job and foreclosure and not have any thoughts of suicide," Adams said.

The state recently received a second federal grant to address suicide among youth and Native Americans, Adams said.

Stress in families may be leading to an increase in calls to Teen LifeLine, said Nikki Kontz, the group's clinical coordinator and a licensed master's level social worker.

"Traditionally we had it where it might be a situation or a breakdown within a child or a system in the child's life," Kontz said. "Now what we're seeing is an increase in calls and, even more than that, there's an entire breakdown in the family unit."

Teen LifeLine works to get resources to those who call. Kontz said in the past she's made more referrals to counseling or substance abuse programs for teen in need of help. Today, Teen LifeLine is referring entire families to counseling for stress and financial issues, as well as finding them a shelter or food.

"Kids aren't necessarily able to verbally communicate the stresses in the family. Developmentally in children it comes out in other areas. When there's stress in the entirely family they're not able to articulate that. They can't articulate that parents are having a tough time keeping us afloat ... They see mom and dad are fighting more or are more stressed - an increase in family stress that ultimately causes stress to kids."

September was Suicide Prevention Month and Markay's group led a number of school officials through awareness training and activities.

"There is a lot of collaboration. Across the state there's different opportunities whether it's depression screening or bullying interventions," she said.

3



More Information
• Arizona Suicide Prevention Coalition,www.azspc.org, is hosting a statewide conference Oct. 21-22 which will feature Alan Berman, a national expert, who will speak on suicide and bullying.

• National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, (800) 273-8255 orwww.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

• Teen LifeLine (800) 248-TEEN or (800) 248-8255



Risk Factors for Suicide
Biopsychosocial Risk Factors

· Mental disorders, particularly mood disorders, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders and certain personality disorders

· Alcohol and other substance use disorders

· Hopelessness

· Impulsive and/or aggressive tendencies

· History of trauma or abuse

· Some major physical illnesses

· Previous suicide attempt

· Family history of suicide

Environmental Risk Factors

· Job or financial loss

· Relational or social loss

· Easy access to lethal means

· Local clusters of suicide that have a contagious influence

Sociocultural Risk Factors

· Lack of social support and sense of isolation

· Stigma associated with help-seeking behavior

· Barriers to accessing health care, especially mental health and substance abuse treatment

· Certain cultural and religious beliefs (for instance, the belief that suicide is a noble resolution of a personal dilemma)

· Exposure to suicide, including through the media, and influence of others who have died by suicide

Source: Arizona Department of Health Services


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Easy access to lethal means. What's that telling you about the increase in guns and rising suicide rates?

I see. So what you're saying is if mainly 'teens' didn't have access to a gun they wouldn't commit suicide right?
So it follows that if all cars were taken away from everyone there wouldn't be any traffic fatalities, except when two horseback riders collided with each other.
'Teens' who grow up with guns around all their lives, who decide to kill themselves likely will use a gun.
'Teens who have no access to a gun will kill themselves using another method.
So ******* what?

 

[hadit]

But it IS a factor that cannot be ignored. By all means, look at ALL factors, like racial diversity, economics, overall contentment, etc. But, given the level of discourse we've been seeing, easy access to guns SHOULD result in high death rates, yet here it does not.

Just possessing or buying a gun doesnt mean you are going to shoot someone. Whats more important is that avenue is cut off for those that buy guns with the intent of shooting someone. I'll tell you a story about why I dont carry a gun with me anymore. i almost shot a cop that pulled me over for no reason. Luckily the guy didnt make me get out of the car or i would have shot him. He just asked me some questions then backed off when I asked for his badge number. I had just had my first child and had to make a decision after that episode. If I didnt have access to a gun it wouldnt have gotten that close.

I don't own a gun either, because I don't want to be responsible for someone getting hurt in spite of every precaution. Guns themselves, however, are not really the problem when it comes to violence. I think that even a total ban on guns would make people feel better about themselves for a while, but not make any difference in the total number of violent deaths.

if it were actually possible to get all or most guns off the street it would make a huge difference. Not too many people want to get close enough to their target to possibly end up being a victim themselves. Guns are a lot like alcohol.Its false courage. They make people brave that would otherwise back down.

And therein lies the problem. The guns are already out there and trying to eliminate them will only disarm the victim side of the population. SOME people might gain false courage from being armed, but a lot don't. It is not accurate to make such a blanket statement about ALL gun owners.

Its pretty accurate if you understand humans. If a gun didnt make people feel secure they wouldnt have them except to hunt. Whats the number one marketing tactic that gun makers use. The old fear of loss psychology. in this particular case its loss of security which ranks right up their with the instinct to survive. You cant be that naive to believe the vast majority of people dont own guns out of fear. Having one makes them feel braver and more secure.

But that does not automatically translate into increased recklessness. It can, for example, translate into a rape victim not being afraid to go out by herself, or an older person being able to remain independent for longer. Think of it this way. The incredibly VAST majority of gun owners NEVER hurt ANYONE with their weapons. Using the standard you set, I could then make the blanket statement that gun owners don't hurt anyone with their weapons.