CDZ Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways

[Dr Grump]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

 

[Sunsettommy]

I pointed this 33rd place out and the extenuating factors you completely left out to show that what you presented was misleading.

Still waiting to see how many of them were actual murders..........,

Extenuating factors don't matter. Either the stats are correct or they are not. You cannot cherrypick parts of it by bringing up gangs etc. All countries have those problems. It's part of your society. It is what you are. It's like saying if you take all the red, blue and green cars off the road, most will be white. But you haven't taken those cars off the road. They are still there. Very piss weak argument.

Actually Post 13 is the ultimate cherrypick since he left out the FIRST 32 countries on the list with a higher kill rate than America.

 

[MarathonMike]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

Yes you wouldn't frivolous complaints be used to take down a cop, they would need to be confirmed.

 

[forkup]

I pointed this 33rd place out and the extenuating factors you completely left out to show that what you presented was misleading.

Still waiting to see how many of them were actual murders..........,

Extenuating factors don't matter. Either the stats are correct or they are not. You cannot cherrypick parts of it by bringing up gangs etc. All countries have those problems. It's part of your society. It is what you are. It's like saying if you take all the red, blue and green cars off the road, most will be white. But you haven't taken those cars off the road. They are still there. Very piss weak argument.

Actually Post 13 is the ultimate cherrypick since he left out the FIRST 32 countries on the list with a higher kill rate than America.

Those 32 countries all are third world countries, the first,first world country in there is Malta with roughly 30 percent less killings. And that's easily explained because of the small population and so the 1 instance they had in 2019 had a big impact, you don't find them in previous lists.

I think that it's telling that only one of the Western nations has consistently high numbers of police killings to the point that it's on average more than 7 times more likely to happen compared to comparable nations. And no it has nothing to do with crime numbers. I'm European we have crime and violence and gangs and drugs. Police procedures here are just markedly different.

This is anecdotal but illustrates it maybe. My wife is American and one time me, her and my mother in law were pulled over for speeding. So this elderly lady is behind the wheel, I'm in the backseat and my wife is next to her. I couldn't believe this officer approached this old car driven by an old lady with his hand on his gun. Come to find out its standard procedure in the US.

 

[forkup]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

Yes you wouldn't frivolous complaints be used to take down a cop, they would need to be confirmed.

If someone has 17 separate misconduct complaints filed against him and none come to anything I think the most likely explanation is that this officer is being protected not that 17 people all filed frivolous complaints.

 

[Dr Grump]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

Yes you wouldn't frivolous complaints be used to take down a cop, they would need to be confirmed.

True. I mean there are a couple of shootings he was involved with, one directly. The other two he was responding officer and didn't do the shooting, so you can't put him in that picture. I'm sure there were some frivolous complaints. But I'm guessing a good five or six were well founded and nothing was done.

 

[task0778]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

Yes you wouldn't frivolous complaints be used to take down a cop, they would need to be confirmed.

If someone has 17 separate misconduct complaints filed against him and none come to anything I think the most likely explanation is that this officer is being protected not that 17 people all filed frivolous complaints.

Read my OP please. You never know, some of the complaints might be bogus or unverified, I have no idea what the true % might be. And we should mention that the vast majority of interactions between the police and the public are not problematic. There are times when the cop screws up, but there are also times when the person screws up and lies about it. And let's be honest, sometimes cops are put into some very hairy situations. It's always easy to say after the fact, well he shoulda done this or that but it ain't so easy in real time when it's your ass on the line.

Still, there are times when the cop just goes too far, like with Floyd.

 

[Olde Europe]

Extenuating factors don't matter. Either the stats are correct or they are not. You cannot cherrypick parts of it by bringing up gangs etc. All countries have those problems. It's part of your society. It is what you are. It's like saying if you take all the red, blue and green cars off the road, most will be white. But you haven't taken those cars off the road. They are still there. Very piss weak argument.

First, that should be "aggravating" factors, no? Second, they do matter. Say, if a country has its law-enforcement infrastructure destroyed, such as Iraq after 2003. Or, a weak, dirt poor country without the funds to organize proper, First World-level law-enforcement, but organized crime is flush with billions upon billions of cash from an immensely rich, big neighbor (such as quite a few of the countries in Central America). That does, in fact, matter. What does not matter (in this context), and cannot serve as an excuse, is a benighted, destructive, self-defeating war on drugs that produces untold numbers of casualties by driving the drug trade and drug users into illegality, and into defending their stashes and street corners gun in hand, and that on top of maintaining "peace" in a country bursting at the seams with guns. Small wonder that police tend to adopt a better safe than dead attitude, particularly so since they have been getting away with it for decades.

 

[Olde Europe]

Actually Post 13 is the ultimate cherrypick since he left out the FIRST 32 countries on the list with a higher kill rate than America.

What you still don't get, Tommy, is that I would never want the U.S. of A. be compared to any of those 32 country with an even higher kill rate. Which is why I did not. You did. You thought having a lower kill rate than Rwanda would be something ... worth mentioning. Boggles the mind.

 

[forkup]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

Yes you wouldn't frivolous complaints be used to take down a cop, they would need to be confirmed.

If someone has 17 separate misconduct complaints filed against him and none come to anything I think the most likely explanation is that this officer is being protected not that 17 people all filed frivolous complaints.

Read my OP please. You never know, some of the complaints might be bogus or unverified, I have no idea what the true % might be. And we should mention that the vast majority of interactions between the police and the public are not problematic. There are times when the cop screws up, but there are also times when the person screws up and lies about it. And let's be honest, sometimes cops are put into some very hairy situations. It's always easy to say after the fact, well he shoulda done this or that but it ain't so easy in real time when it's your ass on the line.

Still, there are times when the cop just goes too far, like with Floyd.

I never claimed I knew what happened. I claimed that the fact that 17 people filed misconduct complaints against one officer makes it more likely that he was actually not conducting himself appropriately as opposed to him being the target of frivolous complaints. That's all. It's completely separate from what we know his conduct was in this case. I'm simply giving my opinion on what the most likely scenario is.

 

[Andylusion]

Below is part of a story about police misconduct complaints, which apparently does not change cop misbehavior. It's from the NY Times, which generally I take with a grain of salt or 2, so if anyone has a different take then by all means share it. Note the problems with holding a police officer accountable, and the difficulties and dangers an officer faces while on duty. And I think it's fair to say that some suspects are shall we say not that cooperative. Possibly for understandable reasons when they know they haven't done anything wrong, BUT you don't want to make an officer think his well-being are threatened.

Is it not feasible to give officers non-lethal means to subdue somebody that is strenuously resisting? If the guy is already handcuffed, then tie his feet together so he/she is unable to move. You don't have to keep your knee of somebody's neck for almost 9 minutes, right? And 17 misconduct complaints, WTF?

In nearly two decades with the Minneapolis Police Department, Derek Chauvin faced at least 17 misconduct complaints, none of which derailed his career.

Over the years, civilian review boards came and went, and a federal review recommended that the troubled department improve its system for flagging problematic officers.

All the while, Chauvin tussled with a man before firing two shots, critically wounding him. He was admonished for using derogatory language and a demeaning tone with the public. He was named in a brutality lawsuit. But he received no discipline other than two letters of reprimand.

It was not until Chauvin, 44, was seen in a video with his left knee pinned to the neck of a black man, prone for nearly nine minutes and pleading for relief, that the officer, who is white, was suspended, fired and then, on Friday, charged with murder.

His case is not unusual. Critics say the department, despite its long history of accusations of abuse, never fully put in place federal recommendations to overhaul the way in which it tracks complaints and punishes officers — with just a handful over the years facing termination or severe punishment.

Even as outrage has mounted over deaths at the hands of the police, it remains notoriously difficult in the United States to hold officers accountable, in part because of the political clout of police unions, the reluctance of investigators, prosecutors and juries to second-guess an officer’s split-second decision and the wide latitude the law gives police officers to use force.

Police departments themselves have often resisted civilian review or dragged their feet when it comes to overhauling officer disciplinary practices. And even change-oriented police chiefs in cities like Baltimore and Philadelphia — which over the last few years have been the sites of high-profile deaths of black men by white officers — have struggled to punish or remove bad actors.

Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways

In nearly two decades with the Minneapolis Police Department, Derek Chauvin faced at least 17 misconduct complaints, none of which derailed his career.Over the years, civilian review boards came and went, and a federal review recommended that the troubled department improve its system for...

www.yahoo.com

I agree with most of this. What I find surprising, is that people are shocked by it. What, government isn't responsive? No way? Yet you want these same people in charge of your health care.

The only other thing is, it's always annoying to me, when ignorant people, say how easy it should be for other people to do something.

Is it not feasible to give officers non-lethal means to subdue somebody that is strenuously resisting? If the guy is already handcuffed, then tie his feet together so he/she is unable to move.

Have you ever tried to fight someone who was fighting back? It's not 'so feasible' all the time. Big men are strong, and they can break your bones. And this idea that well just do these 3 easy steps, and no one is ever hurt... is ridiculous.

That's not reality. Reality is hard.

Again, I don't see why this specific officer had to put his knee on the guys neck.

But making these ignorance based generalities that somehow police officers can stop a guy who is bound and determined to fight back.... and no one will get hurt... you are ignorant. It's not easy like you say.

I dare to joint the police accademy, and learn hand-to-hand, and try and subdue someone who is resisting to his fullest. You won't say such ignorant things anymore, when you are the one that has to stop the criminal.

 

[MarathonMike]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

It only matters how many were upheld.

Yes you wouldn't frivolous complaints be used to take down a cop, they would need to be confirmed.

True. I mean there are a couple of shootings he was involved with, one directly. The other two he was responding officer and didn't do the shooting, so you can't put him in that picture. I'm sure there were some frivolous complaints. But I'm guessing a good five or six were well founded and nothing was done.

Right, so it would seem reasonable if there are other potential Derek Chauvins out there, it would behoove all of us to have them taken off of street duty. Not fired, just in a job that does not involve confrontation.

 

[task0778]

But making these ignorance based generalities that somehow police officers can stop a guy who is bound and determined to fight back.... and no one will get hurt... you are ignorant. It's not easy like you say.

Well excuse the hell out of me. Once a guy is handcuffed, even a big guy, he can struggle but he can't really hurt a cop that much except with his legs. So, you tackle the bastard and put him on the ground and another cop ties his legs together. At that point, he's pretty much helpless until the van arrives to cart his sorry ass off to jail. Doesn't sound that ignorant to me. Or taze the guy, or pepper spray him if you have to. You can't tell me there aren't non-lethal ways to subdue somebody without risking serious bodily harm to yourself.

"you are ignorant." Thank you for pointing that out.

"It's not easy like you say." Didn't say it would be easy.

 

[Olde Europe]

Do you ever wonder if these officers have no qualms about behaving this way in public with people recording their actions, what they've done in private away from prying eyes?

Did you wonder why, after one of the police found no pulse around 8:25 p.m., no one, not the police, not the medics, tried to resuscitate him?

Did you wonder why the medics noted the time of Floyd's death as 9:25 p.m., after a full hour without a pulse?

It appears the medics did, in fact, try to resuscitate Mr. Floyd, so the earlier reporting on that matter I mentioned appears to have been false. Sorry for that.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I don't see a justification for Chauvin still being a field officer with 18 complaints against him. Maybe one thing that could be done is a review of active duty officers with multiple complaints of violence against them and put them behind a desk.

Most if not all officers in minority neighborhoods have complaints against them. You know these blacks who destroy McDonald's because the nuggets are cold? They make complaints against the police too.

 

[citygator]

This site tracks police violence... includes reports on unarmed killings.


Law enforcement agencies across the country have failed to provide us with even basic information about the lives they have taken. And while the recently signed Death in Custody Reporting Act mandates this data be reported, its unclear whether police departments will actually comply with this mandate and, even if they do decide to report this information, it could be several years before the data is fully collected, compiled and made public.

We cannot wait to know the true scale of police violence against our communities. And in a country where at least three people are killed by police every day, we cannot wait for police departments to provide us with these answers. The maps and charts on this site aim to provide us with the answers we need. They include information on 1,111 known police killings in 2013, 1,059 killings in 2014, 1,103 killings in 2015, 1,071 killings in 2016, 1,095 killings in 2017, 1,143 killings in 2018 and 1,099 killings in 2019. 95 percent of the killings in our database occurred while a police officer was acting in a law enforcement capacity. Importantly, these data do not include killings by vigilantes or security guards who are not off-duty police officers.

This information has been meticulously sourced from the three largest, most comprehensive and impartial crowdsourced databases on police killings in the country: FatalEncounters.org, the U.S. Police Shootings Database and KilledbyPolice.net. We've also done extensive original research to further improve the quality and completeness of the data; searching social media, obituaries, criminal records databases, police reports and other sources to identify the race of 90 percent of all victims in the database.

We believe the data represented on this site is the most comprehensive accounting of people killed by police since 2013. A recent report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics estimated approximately 1,200 people were killed by police between June, 2015 and May, 2016. Our database identified 1,106 people killed by police over this time period. While there are undoubtedly police killings that are not included in our database (namely, those that go unreported by the media), these estimates suggest that our database captures 92% of the total number of police killings that have occurred since 2013. We hope these data will be used to provide greater transparency and accountability for police departments as part of the ongoing campaign to end police violence in our communities.

Mapping Police Violence

Law enforcement agencies across the country are failing to provide us with even basic information about the lives they take. So we collect the data ourselves.

mappingpoliceviolence.org

 

[luchitociencia]

Who are directly responsible in handling the complaints?

The Mayor?

The Police Commission?

The Police Chief?

Police Dept Internal Affairs

Then, what the hell are protesters doing at the White House front door?

They must go and make their noise at the Police Department Internal affairs building.

Those protesters are a bunch of idiots... lol

 

[luchitociencia]

If someone has 17 separate misconduct complaints filed against him and none come to anything I think the most likely explanation is that this officer is being protected not that 17 people all filed frivolous complaints.

There is a kind of cover up.

Not only police chiefs protecting the wrongdoings of their officers but also judges taking side towards them and applying injustice against innocent people.

I guess they want to portrait a "perfect police department" at all cost. Unfortunately their protecting task causes disastrous out coming for people.

From physical abuse to non existing traffic violations, police and judges have made miserable the lives of many people. They know their officers made mistakes but they will declare guilty the innocent to save the "prestige" of their institution.

This is why so many police officers take for granted that they are "safe" while doing their abuses.

My opinion is that protesters -as usual- are a bunch of idiots. If police is the faulty side, then go and make your protest at the front of the police station.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Below is part of a story about police misconduct complaints, which apparently does not change cop misbehavior. It's from the NY Times, which generally I take with a grain of salt or 2, so if anyone has a different take then by all means share it. Note the problems with holding a police officer accountable, and the difficulties and dangers an officer faces while on duty. And I think it's fair to say that some suspects are shall we say not that cooperative. Possibly for understandable reasons when they know they haven't done anything wrong, BUT you don't want to make an officer think his well-being are threatened.

Is it not feasible to give officers non-lethal means to subdue somebody that is strenuously resisting? If the guy is already handcuffed, then tie his feet together so he/she is unable to move. You don't have to keep your knee of somebody's neck for almost 9 minutes, right? And 17 misconduct complaints, WTF?

In nearly two decades with the Minneapolis Police Department, Derek Chauvin faced at least 17 misconduct complaints, none of which derailed his career.

Over the years, civilian review boards came and went, and a federal review recommended that the troubled department improve its system for flagging problematic officers.

All the while, Chauvin tussled with a man before firing two shots, critically wounding him. He was admonished for using derogatory language and a demeaning tone with the public. He was named in a brutality lawsuit. But he received no discipline other than two letters of reprimand.

It was not until Chauvin, 44, was seen in a video with his left knee pinned to the neck of a black man, prone for nearly nine minutes and pleading for relief, that the officer, who is white, was suspended, fired and then, on Friday, charged with murder.

His case is not unusual. Critics say the department, despite its long history of accusations of abuse, never fully put in place federal recommendations to overhaul the way in which it tracks complaints and punishes officers — with just a handful over the years facing termination or severe punishment.

Even as outrage has mounted over deaths at the hands of the police, it remains notoriously difficult in the United States to hold officers accountable, in part because of the political clout of police unions, the reluctance of investigators, prosecutors and juries to second-guess an officer’s split-second decision and the wide latitude the law gives police officers to use force.

Police departments themselves have often resisted civilian review or dragged their feet when it comes to overhauling officer disciplinary practices. And even change-oriented police chiefs in cities like Baltimore and Philadelphia — which over the last few years have been the sites of high-profile deaths of black men by white officers — have struggled to punish or remove bad actors.

Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways

In nearly two decades with the Minneapolis Police Department, Derek Chauvin faced at least 17 misconduct complaints, none of which derailed his career.Over the years, civilian review boards came and went, and a federal review recommended that the troubled department improve its system for...

www.yahoo.com

They have non-lethal means (hand cuffs) of restraining people and they were in use at the time the X-officer decided to enforce his will to torture that man (who was not resisting), until he died and then remained squatting on the dead mans neck until the medics arrived. This is just a case of an unbalanced officer and 3 lowlife enabling officers. I do suspect it was racially motivated. Police departments should, (but have not yet) done what it takes to weed out the sick individuals from their ranks. With his record, he should have been off the streets years ago. They lit a match to a fuse attached to a powder keg and were to warped to even know it or care, as they paid no attention to the dying man or the people filming and begging for his life, but too afraid they would be next at the hands of these authorities to interfere.

But at what standard are they using with new recruits to join the police force?

Was Chauvin a qualified, capable police officer, meaning did he shows a level of educational excellence that would enable him to perform well and ethically?

I know of entrance standards for hiring varies from city to city, some cities accept people who don't finish high school, while others REQUIRE a High School Diploma, even a college degree for those seeking higher ranks I wonder if the poor performance of Policemen are related to low educational level requirements, and that those police department they work in don't strive for excellence is a reason why they accumulate bad police force.

Not familiar with their training standards and it does not sound like I would approve. Only training of that type I ever had was in riot training at Ft Knox, Ky. I'll tell you straight, if you have a man in cuffs or zipties, you can stick a baton though his arms and two of the four officers could take him anywhere they wanted and put in any car on site if the goal was to control and transport. That was not the goal. It was a Chauvin power play thing that turned deadly because the officer had lost his basic humanity. Chauvin had been of the force for a number of years and had been reprimanded multiple times previously, apparently to no avail. The system there failed is true, but in the end we all have a sense of humanity or should have and that should have been in that murderous torturing officer, but wasn't. He is responsible for what he did and what it has cost that city and this nation.

Do you ever wonder if these officers have no qualms about behaving this way in public with people recording their actions, what they've done in private away from prying eyes?

Did you ever wonder how you would react if you had a gun and were wrestling a huge black guy to the ground? Try it for a few years and tell us if you still feel so morally superior.

There was just a case in NYC where a lady was walking her dog in the Park when a black man approached. She totally panicked and desperately called the police in fear of her life. Cops are in the position every day only often it is a very real attack or a potential attack. On balance they do well under the circumstances, although certainly not as well as you would do.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Below is part of a story about police misconduct complaints, which apparently does not change cop misbehavior. It's from the NY Times, which generally I take with a grain of salt or 2, so if anyone has a different take then by all means share it. Note the problems with holding a police officer accountable, and the difficulties and dangers an officer faces while on duty. And I think it's fair to say that some suspects are shall we say not that cooperative. Possibly for understandable reasons when they know they haven't done anything wrong, BUT you don't want to make an officer think his well-being are threatened.

Is it not feasible to give officers non-lethal means to subdue somebody that is strenuously resisting? If the guy is already handcuffed, then tie his feet together so he/she is unable to move. You don't have to keep your knee of somebody's neck for almost 9 minutes, right? And 17 misconduct complaints, WTF?

In nearly two decades with the Minneapolis Police Department, Derek Chauvin faced at least 17 misconduct complaints, none of which derailed his career.

Over the years, civilian review boards came and went, and a federal review recommended that the troubled department improve its system for flagging problematic officers.

All the while, Chauvin tussled with a man before firing two shots, critically wounding him. He was admonished for using derogatory language and a demeaning tone with the public. He was named in a brutality lawsuit. But he received no discipline other than two letters of reprimand.

It was not until Chauvin, 44, was seen in a video with his left knee pinned to the neck of a black man, prone for nearly nine minutes and pleading for relief, that the officer, who is white, was suspended, fired and then, on Friday, charged with murder.

His case is not unusual. Critics say the department, despite its long history of accusations of abuse, never fully put in place federal recommendations to overhaul the way in which it tracks complaints and punishes officers — with just a handful over the years facing termination or severe punishment.

Even as outrage has mounted over deaths at the hands of the police, it remains notoriously difficult in the United States to hold officers accountable, in part because of the political clout of police unions, the reluctance of investigators, prosecutors and juries to second-guess an officer’s split-second decision and the wide latitude the law gives police officers to use force.

Police departments themselves have often resisted civilian review or dragged their feet when it comes to overhauling officer disciplinary practices. And even change-oriented police chiefs in cities like Baltimore and Philadelphia — which over the last few years have been the sites of high-profile deaths of black men by white officers — have struggled to punish or remove bad actors.

Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways

In nearly two decades with the Minneapolis Police Department, Derek Chauvin faced at least 17 misconduct complaints, none of which derailed his career.Over the years, civilian review boards came and went, and a federal review recommended that the troubled department improve its system for...

www.yahoo.com

They have non-lethal means (hand cuffs) of restraining people and they were in use at the time the X-officer decided to enforce his will to torture that man (who was not resisting), until he died and then remained squatting on the dead mans neck until the medics arrived. This is just a case of an unbalanced officer and 3 lowlife enabling officers. I do suspect it was racially motivated. Police departments should, (but have not yet) done what it takes to weed out the sick individuals from their ranks. With his record, he should have been off the streets years ago. They lit a match to a fuse attached to a powder keg and were to warped to even know it or care, as they paid no attention to the dying man or the people filming and begging for his life, but too afraid they would be next at the hands of these authorities to interfere.

But at what standard are they using with new recruits to join the police force?

Was Chauvin a qualified, capable police officer, meaning did he shows a level of educational excellence that would enable him to perform well and ethically?

I know of entrance standards for hiring varies from city to city, some cities accept people who don't finish high school, while others REQUIRE a High School Diploma, even a college degree for those seeking higher ranks I wonder if the poor performance of Policemen are related to low educational level requirements, and that those police department they work in don't strive for excellence is a reason why they accumulate bad police force.

Not familiar with their training standards and it does not sound like I would approve. Only training of that type I ever had was in riot training at Ft Knox, Ky. I'll tell you straight, if you have a man in cuffs or zipties, you can stick a baton though his arms and two of the four officers could take him anywhere they wanted and put in any car on site if the goal was to control and transport. That was not the goal. It was a Chauvin power play thing that turned deadly because the officer had lost his basic humanity. Chauvin had been of the force for a number of years and had been reprimanded multiple times previously, apparently to no avail. The system there failed is true, but in the end we all have a sense of humanity or should have and that should have been in that murderous torturing officer, but wasn't. He is responsible for what he did and what it has cost that city and this nation.

Maybe he lost his humanity after so many years of being a zoo keeper.