Thousands mark Second Intifada anniversary in Gaza and Judea&Samaria

[Lipush]

..Demonstrators in Gaza waved the green flags of the Islamist movement and chanted slogans such as "We are all the resistance." Some burned a coffin wrapped with an Israeli flag, inscribed: "Oslo is the negotiation of shame and humiliation," and also set fire to effigies of Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu and President Shimon Peres.

"We call on the masses of our Palestinian people in the West Bank to revolt against injustice and oppression and declare a third intifada against the Zionist entity," said a member of Hamas, Mushir al-Masri, at the rally.

Burning dolls of President Peres (known in his peaceful ways)

Burning Israel and the Third Temple

Coffin says- Almaut Al'Israil- Death to Israel

Thousands mark Second Intifada anniversary in Gaza - Israel News, Ynetnews

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These are our "peace partners"

 

[toastman]

Such humble people !

 

[Lipush]

Such humble people !

That's Palestinian love, is all

 

[georgephillip]

"The Second Intifada created two positive achievements for the Palestinians. It brought about the evacuation of the Gaza strip by Israel. It also brought home, even to many members of the hard line Likud part,y that the settlement project and the dream of 'Greater Israel' was impossible to fulfill. Hard liner Ariel Sharon conceived and implemented the disengagement from Gaza, though he had once promised that Gaza settlements had the same status as Tel Aviv. A new political party, Kadima, was born of the Likud, but based itself on a platform of making peace with the Palestinians or implementation of unilateral disengagement. Ehud Olmert, once a member of the Likud, headed Kadima. He told a final cabinet meeting in September 2008 that, 'Greater Israel is no more.' (Ha'aretz, September 16, 2008)

"However, the Intifada ruined the basis of the Israeli peace camp. Support for moderate solutions in Israel was seriously eroded. The Hamas takeover in Gaza demonstrated that disengagement, undertaken, like the peace process over the bitter opposition of the Israeli right, would end in disaster. The Hamas takeover also produced more problems for the Palestinians than were solved by the Israeli disengagement. It turned Gaza into a demonstration that could be used by opponents of the peace process to show that a Palestinian state would be a nightmarish reign of terror. It divided the Palestinian people, and it made it politically and practically impossible to pursue a peaceful solution of the conflict."

Second Intifada

Do you believe "Greater Israel is no more?"

 

[MHunterB]

Zionism and the Creation of Israel - Definition and History

Georgie - you really need to go back and read this. Most especially the part debunking some of the many falsehoods about Zionism which you insist are 'true'.

 

[toastman]

"The Second Intifada created two positive achievements for the Palestinians. It brought about the evacuation of the Gaza strip by Israel. It also brought home, even to many members of the hard line Likud part,y that the settlement project and the dream of 'Greater Israel' was impossible to fulfill. Hard liner Ariel Sharon conceived and implemented the disengagement from Gaza, though he had once promised that Gaza settlements had the same status as Tel Aviv. A new political party, Kadima, was born of the Likud, but based itself on a platform of making peace with the Palestinians or implementation of unilateral disengagement. Ehud Olmert, once a member of the Likud, headed Kadima. He told a final cabinet meeting in September 2008 that, 'Greater Israel is no more.' (Ha'aretz, September 16, 2008)

"However, the Intifada ruined the basis of the Israeli peace camp. Support for moderate solutions in Israel was seriously eroded. The Hamas takeover in Gaza demonstrated that disengagement, undertaken, like the peace process over the bitter opposition of the Israeli right, would end in disaster. The Hamas takeover also produced more problems for the Palestinians than were solved by the Israeli disengagement. It turned Gaza into a demonstration that could be used by opponents of the peace process to show that a Palestinian state would be a nightmarish reign of terror. It divided the Palestinian people, and it made it politically and practically impossible to pursue a peaceful solution of the conflict."

Second Intifada

Do you believe "Greater Israel is no more?"

Do you give two shits about any of the Israelis who were blown to bits during the second intifada or were they all legit targets according to you ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

"The Second Intifada created two positive achievements for the Palestinians. It brought about the evacuation of the Gaza strip by Israel. It also brought home, even to many members of the hard line Likud part,y that the settlement project and the dream of 'Greater Israel' was impossible to fulfill. Hard liner Ariel Sharon conceived and implemented the disengagement from Gaza, though he had once promised that Gaza settlements had the same status as Tel Aviv. A new political party, Kadima, was born of the Likud, but based itself on a platform of making peace with the Palestinians or implementation of unilateral disengagement. Ehud Olmert, once a member of the Likud, headed Kadima. He told a final cabinet meeting in September 2008 that, 'Greater Israel is no more.' (Ha'aretz, September 16, 2008)

"However, the Intifada ruined the basis of the Israeli peace camp. Support for moderate solutions in Israel was seriously eroded. The Hamas takeover in Gaza demonstrated that disengagement, undertaken, like the peace process over the bitter opposition of the Israeli right, would end in disaster. The Hamas takeover also produced more problems for the Palestinians than were solved by the Israeli disengagement. It turned Gaza into a demonstration that could be used by opponents of the peace process to show that a Palestinian state would be a nightmarish reign of terror. It divided the Palestinian people, and it made it politically and practically impossible to pursue a peaceful solution of the conflict."

Second Intifada

Do you believe "Greater Israel is no more?"

Do you give two shits about any of the Israelis who were blown to bits during the second intifada or were they all legit targets according to you ?

The occupation chooses to be a target.

It is difficult to be sympathetic.

 

[toastman]

"The Second Intifada created two positive achievements for the Palestinians. It brought about the evacuation of the Gaza strip by Israel. It also brought home, even to many members of the hard line Likud part,y that the settlement project and the dream of 'Greater Israel' was impossible to fulfill. Hard liner Ariel Sharon conceived and implemented the disengagement from Gaza, though he had once promised that Gaza settlements had the same status as Tel Aviv. A new political party, Kadima, was born of the Likud, but based itself on a platform of making peace with the Palestinians or implementation of unilateral disengagement. Ehud Olmert, once a member of the Likud, headed Kadima. He told a final cabinet meeting in September 2008 that, 'Greater Israel is no more.' (Ha'aretz, September 16, 2008)

"However, the Intifada ruined the basis of the Israeli peace camp. Support for moderate solutions in Israel was seriously eroded. The Hamas takeover in Gaza demonstrated that disengagement, undertaken, like the peace process over the bitter opposition of the Israeli right, would end in disaster. The Hamas takeover also produced more problems for the Palestinians than were solved by the Israeli disengagement. It turned Gaza into a demonstration that could be used by opponents of the peace process to show that a Palestinian state would be a nightmarish reign of terror. It divided the Palestinian people, and it made it politically and practically impossible to pursue a peaceful solution of the conflict."

Second Intifada

Do you believe "Greater Israel is no more?"

Do you give two shits about any of the Israelis who were blown to bits during the second intifada or were they all legit targets according to you ?

The occupation chooses to be a target.

It is difficult to be sympathetic.

Almost all the deaths occurred where there is no occupation.

Having said that, your comment is very disturbing. I didn't think you were like that Tinmore, guess I was wrong

 

[toastman]

BTW, using your logic, I will say that the Palestinians choose to be a target by attacking Israel and forcing Israel to retaliate.

 

[georgephillip]

Zionism and the Creation of Israel - Definition and History

Georgie - you really need to go back and read this. Most especially the part debunking some of the many falsehoods about Zionism which you insist are 'true'.

Do you believe any among the following is one of those "many falsehoods"?

"In reality, Jewish population grew, but Arab population grew more rapidly. By 1914, there were over 500,000 Arabs in Palestine, but only about 80,000 to 100,000 Jews. Arab opposition to Jewish settlement grew as Arabs perceived that the Zionist goal was more than just a myth, and as they increasingly identified Zionism with British interests in the Middle East.

"At the same time, early Zionist pronouncements and outlook were often frankly colonialist, especially when addressing leaders of foreign powers. The plantations sponsored by Baron Rothschild were modeled on plantation settlement in Algeria and other colonies.

"Colonialism was fashionable and 'progressive,' and some early Zionist leaders saw nothing wrong in assimilating this idea to Zionism along with other modern ideas such as socialism, utopianism and nationalism.

"Later Zionists were heavily influenced by socialism and embarrassed at the colonialist aspects of the Zionist project. They were also aware, of course, that Palestine was already occupied by Arabs.

"Many however, including the young David Ben-Gurion, who headed the Executive committee of the Zionist Yishuv (Jewish community) in Palestine and was later the first Prime Minister of Israel, initially thought that the Arabs could only benefit from Jewish immigration and would welcome it.

"Others, such as Eliezer ben Yehuda, frankly envisioned removal of the Arabs from Palestine.

"One of the earliest warnings about the Arab problem came from the Zionist writer Ahad Ha'am (Asher Ginsberg), who wrote in his 1891 essay 'Truth from Eretz Israel' that in Palestine 'it is hard to find tillable land that is not already tilled", and moreover:

"'From abroad we are accustomed to believing that the Arabs are all desert savages, like donkeys, who neither see nor understand what goes on around them. But this is a big mistake... The Arabs, and especially those in the cities, understand our deeds and our desires in Eretz Israel, but they keep quiet and pretend not to understand, since they do not see our present activities as a threat to their future... However, if the time comes when the life of our people in Eretz Israel develops to the point of encroaching upon the native population, they will not easily yield their place.'"

Would you have easily yielded your place in Palestine to European migrants, Marg?

Zionism and the Creation of Israel - Definition and History

 

[georgephillip]

"The Second Intifada created two positive achievements for the Palestinians. It brought about the evacuation of the Gaza strip by Israel. It also brought home, even to many members of the hard line Likud part,y that the settlement project and the dream of 'Greater Israel' was impossible to fulfill. Hard liner Ariel Sharon conceived and implemented the disengagement from Gaza, though he had once promised that Gaza settlements had the same status as Tel Aviv. A new political party, Kadima, was born of the Likud, but based itself on a platform of making peace with the Palestinians or implementation of unilateral disengagement. Ehud Olmert, once a member of the Likud, headed Kadima. He told a final cabinet meeting in September 2008 that, 'Greater Israel is no more.' (Ha'aretz, September 16, 2008)

"However, the Intifada ruined the basis of the Israeli peace camp. Support for moderate solutions in Israel was seriously eroded. The Hamas takeover in Gaza demonstrated that disengagement, undertaken, like the peace process over the bitter opposition of the Israeli right, would end in disaster. The Hamas takeover also produced more problems for the Palestinians than were solved by the Israeli disengagement. It turned Gaza into a demonstration that could be used by opponents of the peace process to show that a Palestinian state would be a nightmarish reign of terror. It divided the Palestinian people, and it made it politically and practically impossible to pursue a peaceful solution of the conflict."

Second Intifada

Do you believe "Greater Israel is no more?"

Do you give two shits about any of the Israelis who were blown to bits during the second intifada or were they all legit targets according to you ?

I believe killing civilians is a war crime regardless of which side commits the act.
How to properly define "civilian" seems problematic in this case.
I also think that none of the following would have happened if the UN had not sanctioned a Jewish state in Palestine in 1948:

"About four or five times as many Palestinian Arabs as Israelis have been killed in the course of the Intifada. Not including the Palestinians killed in internecine violence, this amounts to slightly less than 5,000 Palestinians and about 1,100 Israelis according to Betselem estimates."

Second Intifada

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do you give two shits about any of the Israelis who were blown to bits during the second intifada or were they all legit targets according to you ?

The occupation chooses to be a target.

It is difficult to be sympathetic.

Almost all the deaths occurred where there is no occupation.

Having said that, your comment is very disturbing. I didn't think you were like that Tinmore, guess I was wrong

Like what, Toastman?

 

[toastman]

The occupation chooses to be a target.

It is difficult to be sympathetic.

Almost all the deaths occurred where there is no occupation.

Having said that, your comment is very disturbing. I didn't think you were like that Tinmore, guess I was wrong

Like what, Toastman?

You said it's hard to be sympathetic when Israelis are murdered because Israel is the occupier.
I know you're a anti - Zionist, which I have no problem with, but I didn't think you were so shallow.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Almost all the deaths occurred where there is no occupation.

Having said that, your comment is very disturbing. I didn't think you were like that Tinmore, guess I was wrong

Like what, Toastman?

You said it's hard to be sympathetic when Israelis are murdered because Israel is the occupier.
I know you're a anti - Zionist, which I have no problem with, but I didn't think you were so shallow.

Israel creates its own problems and I am not going to accept a guilt trip about it.

 

[toastman]

Like what, Toastman?

You said it's hard to be sympathetic when Israelis are murdered because Israel is the occupier.
I know you're a anti - Zionist, which I have no problem with, but I didn't think you were so shallow.

Israel creates its own problems and I am not going to accept a guilt trip about it.

What a load of crap your first sentence is !
And I didn't ask you to feel guilty about anything.

Oh, and let me use your logic:

The Palestinians create their own problems by launching rockets and forcing the IAF to retaliate .
The Palestinians created their own problems by sending scores of suicide bombers into Israel during the second intifada causing Israel to retaliate .....

Either way, the whole point of this conversation we are having is that you showed me your stance when it comes to the lives of Israelis. And I responded by telling you that you are very shallow . The reason I said that is because I didn't think of you like that, I thought you were a little more sympathetic.
That is all, just my opinion.

 

[Lipush]

Like what, Toastman?

You said it's hard to be sympathetic when Israelis are murdered because Israel is the occupier.
I know you're a anti - Zionist, which I have no problem with, but I didn't think you were so shallow.

Israel creates its own problems and I am not going to accept a guilt trip about it.

Deflection

 

[docmauser1]

"The Second Intifada created two positive achievements for the Palestinians. It brought about the evacuation of the Gaza strip by Israel. It also brought home, even to many members of the hard line Likud part,y that the settlement project and the dream of 'Greater Israel' was impossible to fulfill. Hard liner Ariel Sharon conceived and implemented the disengagement from Gaza, though he had once promised that Gaza settlements had the same status as Tel Aviv. A new political party, Kadima, was born of the Likud, but based itself on a platform of making peace with the Palestinians or implementation of unilateral disengagement. Ehud Olmert, once a member of the Likud, headed Kadima. He told a final cabinet meeting in September 2008 that, 'Greater Israel is no more.' (Ha'aretz, September 16, 2008) "However, the Intifada ruined the basis of the Israeli peace camp. Support for moderate solutions in Israel was seriously eroded. The Hamas takeover in Gaza demonstrated that disengagement, undertaken, like the peace process over the bitter opposition of the Israeli right, would end in disaster. The Hamas takeover also produced more problems for the Palestinians than were solved by the Israeli disengagement. It turned Gaza into a demonstration that could be used by opponents of the peace process to show that a Palestinian state would be a nightmarish reign of terror. It divided the Palestinian people, and it made it politically and practically impossible to pursue a peaceful solution of the conflict."
Do you believe "Greater Israel is no more?"

Do we believe our honorable georgephillip is full of uneducated guesstimations?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You said it's hard to be sympathetic when Israelis are murdered because Israel is the occupier.
I know you're a anti - Zionist, which I have no problem with, but I didn't think you were so shallow.

Israel creates its own problems and I am not going to accept a guilt trip about it.

What a load of crap your first sentence is !
And I didn't ask you to feel guilty about anything.

Oh, and let me use your logic:

The Palestinians create their own problems by launching rockets and forcing the IAF to retaliate .
The Palestinians created their own problems by sending scores of suicide bombers into Israel during the second intifada causing Israel to retaliate .....

Either way, the whole point of this conversation we are having is that you showed me your stance when it comes to the lives of Israelis. And I responded by telling you that you are very shallow . The reason I said that is because I didn't think of you like that, I thought you were a little more sympathetic.
That is all, just my opinion.

The only thing I said is that it is Israel's choice. Israel can choose to stop the attacks any time it wants.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Israel creates its own problems and I am not going to accept a guilt trip about it.

What a load of crap your first sentence is !
And I didn't ask you to feel guilty about anything.

Oh, and let me use your logic:

The Palestinians create their own problems by launching rockets and forcing the IAF to retaliate .
The Palestinians created their own problems by sending scores of suicide bombers into Israel during the second intifada causing Israel to retaliate .....

Either way, the whole point of this conversation we are having is that you showed me your stance when it comes to the lives of Israelis. And I responded by telling you that you are very shallow . The reason I said that is because I didn't think of you like that, I thought you were a little more sympathetic.
That is all, just my opinion.

The only thing I said is that it is Israel's choice. Israel can choose to stop the attacks any time it wants.

Which attacks?

 

[toastman]

Israel creates its own problems and I am not going to accept a guilt trip about it.

What a load of crap your first sentence is !
And I didn't ask you to feel guilty about anything.

Oh, and let me use your logic:

The Palestinians create their own problems by launching rockets and forcing the IAF to retaliate .
The Palestinians created their own problems by sending scores of suicide bombers into Israel during the second intifada causing Israel to retaliate .....

Either way, the whole point of this conversation we are having is that you showed me your stance when it comes to the lives of Israelis. And I responded by telling you that you are very shallow . The reason I said that is because I didn't think of you like that, I thought you were a little more sympathetic.
That is all, just my opinion.

The only thing I said is that it is Israel's choice. Israel can choose to stop the attacks any time it wants.

By surrendering to the demands of the Palestinians, right ??

No thanks