Thou Shalt Not Kill,,,,,,,,except when?????

[Annie]

Okay. 189. Still not "hundredS."

Punishment should be equal, and commensurate with the crime. It has never been so, and likely not going to be so in the future becuase it involves people, and people think with their biases.[/QUOTE

Agreed. No one, Hello?

 

[jillian]

Okay. 189. Still not "hundredS."

Punishment should be equal, and commensurate with the crime. It has never been so, and likely not going to be so in the future becuase it involves people, and people think with their biases.

It was 189 from the Innocence Project only. If they did 11 more people would it make a huge differenceto you?

The number also doesn't include Innocence-type projects elsewhere in the country or the Southern Poverty Law Center's successes.

As for the rest of your point. Well said. I couldn't add to it.

 

[jillian]

Okay. 189. Still not "hundredS."

Punishment should be equal, and commensurate with the crime. It has never been so, and likely not going to be so in the future becuase it involves people, and people think with their biases.[/QUOTE

Agreed. No one, Hello?

You let only 4 minutes pass from the post, Kathianne. Ya gotta give people a chance. Sheesh!

 

[Annie]

You let only 4 minutes pass from the post, Kathianne. Ya gotta give people a chance. Sheesh!

Ok.

 

[Gunny]

Ok.

LOL.

 

[mattskramer]

There are no hundreds. A handful at best, over how many years? I have no problem with the death penalty. I don't agree with how it is applied, but not for the liberal fantasy that it is applied unequally based on race and socioeconomic position.

What you leave out is a higher percentage of criminals are ethnic minorities, and ALL are poor or they wouldn't need to be criminials, now would they?

I don't agree with sentencing someone to death based on circumstantial evidence only, or the word of one eyewitness. IMO, there should be no shadow of doubt as to guilt. Otherwise, they should get life.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110

 

[manu1959]

I'm still waiting for a Christian to rationally justify the death penalty.

eye for an eye

 

[liberalogic]

eye for an eye

Ok, but what about forgiveness? Wasn't Christ big on that? And also, no one has answered my other question-- if God is the ultimate decider of one's fate (heaven or hell), then why does it matter that revenge is administered here on Earth?

 

[Gunny]

Ok, but what about forgiveness? Wasn't Christ big on that? And also, no one has answered my other question-- if God is the ultimate decider of one's fate (heaven or hell), then why does it matter that revenge is administered here on Earth?

Forgiveness and accountability are two separate subjects. Accountability is not "revenge." It is the taker paying a price commensurate with what has been taken. The criminal may be forgiven and still required to pay for the crime.

Christ was not big on defying the law of the land:

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” Matthew 22.21

We have a society, and in order to have a more orderly society it has rules. Violate the rules and suffer accountability to society. People who cannot live in society without violating the rules need to be separated from society.

And we aren't talking "shopifiting" here. I know of no case in recent times where someone was given the death penalty for frivilous crimes. The death penalty is normally only handed down to those convicted of cold-blooded murder. The murderer has deprived another human being of human life for selfish reasons. Why should that person's life not be forfeit as just repayment?

God is not the ultimate decider of Man's fate. Man is. God merely will hold Man accountable in the end.

 

[Gunny]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110

Guess you don't read too well. Jillian came up with a higher number than you did. 123 is STILL not hundreds.

I also think I made myself pretty clear on where I stand as far as application of the death penalty is concerned.

 

[mattskramer]

Guess you don't read too well. Jillian came up with a higher number than you did. 123 is STILL not hundreds.

I also think I made myself pretty clear on where I stand as far as application of the death penalty is concerned.

Wow. Anyway, my position is that 1 million serial murderers should spend life in jail than have 1 innocent person executed.

 

[liberalogic]

Forgiveness and accountability are two separate subjects. Accountability is not "revenge." It is the taker paying a price commensurate with what has been taken. The criminal may be forgiven and still required to pay for the crime.

Christ was not big on defying the law of the land:

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” Matthew 22.21

I think that biblical quote is a bit of a stetch to serve as justification of the death penalty

We have a society, and in order to have a more orderly society it has rules. Violate the rules and suffer accountability to society. People who cannot live in society without violating the rules need to be separated from society.

And we aren't talking "shopifiting" here. I know of no case in recent times where someone was given the death penalty for frivilous crimes. The death penalty is normally only handed down to those convicted of cold-blooded murder. The murderer has deprived another human being of human life for selfish reasons. Why should that person's life not be forfeit as just repayment?

Irrelevant. I COMPLETELY agree with you here. But I'm asking you to justify murder in the context of pure Christianity not the diluted rule of law.

God is not the ultimate decider of Man's fate. Man is. God merely will hold Man accountable in the end.

Now this is probably the best response anyone's given me so far because everyone keeps saying an eye for an eye, which means nothing at all because they are not tying it to religion.

But there is still no clear evidence to suggest that God will not hold the executioners accountable for their decision to carry out the death penalty. Why, according to Christianity, must one be held accountable by man if he has no choice but to be held accountable in front of God on judgment day? Isn't his eternal fate (which is in the hands of God) much more important than his mortal fate?

 

[manu1959]

Ok, but what about forgiveness? Wasn't Christ big on that? And also, no one has answered my other question-- if God is the ultimate decider of one's fate (heaven or hell), then why does it matter that revenge is administered here on Earth?

the person they killed can forgive them when they see them....

for me...the rights the killer took from the murder person should be taken from them in the same fashion....

can't speak for god....and it isn't revenge it is accountabilty for ones actions

 

[manu1959]

Wow. Anyway, my position is that 1 million serial murderers should spend life in jail than have 1 innocent person executed.

bet you are pro choice......

 

[Gunny]

I think that biblical quote is a bit of a stetch to serve as justification of the death penalty



Irrelevant. I COMPLETELY agree with you here. But I'm asking you to justify murder in the context of pure Christianity not the diluted rule of law.



Now this is probably the best response anyone's given me so far because everyone keeps saying an eye for an eye, which means nothing at all because they are not tying it to religion.

But there is still no clear evidence to suggest that God will not hold the executioners accountable for their decision to carry out the death penalty. Why, according to Christianity, must one be held accountable by man if he has no choice but to be held accountable in front of God on judgment day? Isn't his eternal fate (which is in the hands of God) much more important than his mortal fate?

The biblical quote is nto presented as justification for the death penalty itself. It is presented in the context that Christ intones us to obey Man's laws.

My argument is VERY relevant because law, without punishment, is toothless. Mosaic law is where you find "an eye for an eye." People have taken it out of context to justify revenge; when, it does not. It justifies punishment commensurate with the crime. If the crime is murder, what other punishment is more commensurate with it than forfeiture of life?

Christ said he did not come to circumvent Mosaic law, rather to clarify and add to it.

Man is accountable to God for violating God's laws. Man is accountable to Man for violating Man's laws. Without accountability, there is no law. Man's law does not take eternal fate into consideration.

You keep comparing execution to murder; which, it is not. Execution is just repayment of debt incurred to society for wrongfully depriving another of his/her life.

 

[mattskramer]

bet you are pro choice......

That depends on how you define pro-choice. I think that abortion should be illegal except to save the life of the mother, and perhaps when rape is involved and perhaps when incest is involved. Those are the only cases in which I might allow abortion.

Does that make me pro-life or pro-choice in your book?

 

[CockySOB]

Here's a question for those who believe that Christians should not condone the execution of murderers.

Did Jesus ever claim authority over the temporal (civil) authorities? Or was his authority asserted over the spiritual only?

 

[mattskramer]

Here's a question for those who believe that Christians should not condone the execution of murderers.

Did Jesus ever claim authority over the temporal (civil) authorities? Or was his authority asserted over the spiritual only?

To this day, I find the Bible to be vaguely contradictory. In some parts, particularly with the “Sermon on the Mount” it speaks of giving to the poor. Yet, I think that Paul is quoted somewhere as saying that those that don’t work should not eat. Jesus advocates peace. He talks of turning the other cheek. Yet the Old Testament calls for “an eye for an eye”. The old and new Testament speaks of the same God. Also, Jesus supposedly destroys some trading booths on some temple grounds. It all seems so contradictory.

Anyway, putting the Bible aside, I have no qualms about executing people who really have committed murder. The problem comes in the difference between reality and belief. Since the 1970’s over 100 people have been released from death row. The jurors absolutely believed that those people were murders but they were wrong. We can’t tell how many people were wrongly executed. For that reason alone, I am against the death penalty.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Illogical conclusion. If God is handling justice through man, then the innocent person killed (the victim of the murderer who deserves the death penalty) is just as guilty as the murderer himself.

Why are you assuming that the victim has to be innocent or guilty of something? Perhaps they are just an instrument.......perhaps their whole purpose was to be a tool? And who really thinks anything to do with God is logical? I would continue my questions but I'm not sure your "logical" mind would be able to grasp all the possibilities. How sad to have a mind that can only think in logical steps.......very limiting.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Wow. Anyway, my position is that 1 million serial murderers should spend life in jail than have 1 innocent person executed.

I disagree. Innocent people die everyday and we can't shield all of them from unjust death.