Those who want to ban all guns do not live in the real world

[2aguy]

Why shouldn't every gun purchased in the US require a background check. Private sells included.
That is common sense.

No, it isnt. The only way to verify a background check on a private sale is to register all guns......that is the real goal of universal background checks.....a trojan horse to get gun registration.....

 

[2aguy]

Eight years of conservatives lying about guns being ‘banned’ and ‘confiscated.’

It never happened.

Another Democratic president and conservatives are lying again about guns being ‘banned’ and ‘confiscated’ – and again it won’t happen.

obama packed the courts with the same judges upholding bans on AR-15s and 30 round magazines......he didn't want to lose seats in congress to anti-gun votes, so he simply packed the lower courts with idiots like you....

 

[2aguy]

This is an exaggeration -- the real number is 9.

600 million guns in private hands......over 21.25 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Gun suicides... 23,491...





Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.



Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

 

[M14 Shooter]

Original post stated that only 8 people in USA want to ban all guns. My reply was that the number is not so small -- I am #9.

Fact remains:
For every gun used to commit murder, at least 10 are used for self-defense.

 

[ElmerMudd]

This is not an exaggeration:
For every gun used to commit murder, at least 10 are used for self-defense.

Please document that m14 shooter.
Most gun owners are not cowards but too many gun owners are fearful cowards. They feel they need a gun to protect them from everybody and everything in their life. The idiots think the paper boy has not robbed them and attacked them because they have a gun. They are fearful of commonsense regulations.
Many of these same cowards fear the COVID vaccine. They are a sorry bunch.

 

[ElmerMudd]

600 million guns in private hands......over 21.25 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Gun suicides... 23,491...





Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.



Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

Bullshit
There are plenty of reasons to have a gun for protection but in truth private ownership, more often, is used to intimidate, shootings in domestic arguments, suicide etc.. You are more likely to be harmed by a gun, if you own a gun.

Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the i…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[ElmerMudd]

No, it isnt. The only way to verify a background check on a private sale is to register all guns......that is the real goal of universal background checks.....a trojan horse to get gun registration.....

Why not register all guns. We register all cars, all houses.
You are a paranoid coward that thinks then government will come for your guns. IDIOT

 

[M14 Shooter]

Please document that m14 shooter.

According to rabidly anti-gun Violence Prevention Center, at least 100,000 firearms are used each year in self-defense.
Across the same time period, around 9500 firearms were used to commit murder
~100,000 / ~9500 = ~10

https://vpc.org/studies/justifiable20.pdf - page 6

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

ucr.fbi.gov

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why not register all guns

Because it is imposisble to soundly demonstrate the necessity for, and efficacy of, doing so.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why shouldn't every gun purchased in the US require a background check.

Simple:
The state cannot show probable cause - or reasonable suspicion - to justify the restraint imposed by same.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Lives saved from crime = a large portion of the 1.2 million times a year guns are used by law abiding Americans to stop rapes, roberries, murders, beatings and stabbings.......according to the CDC....

One estimate puts the number of lives saved at about 175,000 a year.....

Can you tell which numbers are bigger?

This does not sound realistic.

 

[Man of Ethics]

I can live without alcohol, tobacco, or driving a car. For a Moderately Autistic person, driving is an unreasonable risk.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This does not sound realistic.

To the willfully ignorant, sure.

 

[Canon Shooter]

The problem with gun control is that the gun control advocates only want to enact laws which adversely affect law abiding citizens.

We need to aggressively target the criminals. The punishments for gun crimes need to be so severe and inhuman that no one would want to even chance getting caught committing a crime while in the possession of a firearm...

 

[2aguy]

Bullshit
There are plenty of reasons to have a gun for protection but in truth private ownership, more often, is used to intimidate, shootings in domestic arguments, suicide etc.. You are more likely to be harmed by a gun, if you own a gun.

Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the i…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Wrong...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

 

[Canon Shooter]

Give us an example of common sense gun regulations that will only work on criminals and not interfere with law abiding citizens to own firearms.

Easy: Increase the punishments for gun crimes.

Now, tit-for-tat: Give me one gun regulation which won't adversely affect law abiding citizens but will affect only criminals...

 

[2aguy]

Why not register all guns. We register all cars, all houses.
You are a paranoid coward that thinks then government will come for your guns. IDIOT

Because gun registration has always led to gun confiscation.......

Paranoid?

Tell that to the Germans, the French, the British, the Canadians, New Yorkers, Californians, Australians, New Zealanders, Russians............gun registration first, then confiscation...

 

[Canon Shooter]

Because gun registration has always led to gun confiscation.......

Paranoid?

Tell that to the Germans, the French, the British, the Canadians, New Yorkers, Californians, Australians, New Zealanders, Russians............gun registration first, then confiscation...

Gun control advocates always say that they want more laws so that we'll be safe.

I invite any gun control advocate to explain how registering a firearm keeps anyone safe...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The problem with gun control is that the gun control advocates only want to enact laws which adversely affect law abiding citizens.

We need to aggressively target the criminals. The punishments for gun crimes need to be so severe and inhuman that no one would want to even chance getting caught committing a crime while in the possession of a firearm...

It's a stupid concept. If they did a study and found that most drunk drivers drove Ford Taurus's, and started to make it harder for drunks and sober people alike to get Taurus's, nothing would get accomplished.

If you own a Taurus, you must register it with the federal government. To reduce accidents with Taurus's, make the gasoline tank smaller. You must get a background check to own a Taurus. The DUI statistics would never change, and if anything, probably get worse.

Yet anti-gunners think this exact same concept would work with guns. Like the Ford Taurus examples, things have gotten worse if anything.

People get busted illegally carrying a concealed weapon, and they are back on the street within a few days. A stolen gun? Maybe a few months in jail. Same with being in possession of a gun as a felon. Very little happens to these people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This does not sound realistic.

And why doesn't it? Because the MSM never reports those stories. At best on a slow news day, your local news may make mention of it. But it happens dozens of times every single day in this country.

The MSM only reports crime with guns. When a gun is not used to kill a bunch of people like that criminal in Wisconsin that went to a white suburb to kill as many white people that he could with his car, they made sure that story died in less than a week. Now imagine if he used a gun to kill 6 and injure 40. It would be the talk of the news well into next year.