This would represent a metaphorically tectonic shift in European defense.

berg80

berg80

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France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

France will consider extending the protection of its nuclear arsenal to its allies, French President Emmanuel Macron said Wednesday, while warning that Europe needs to be ready for the United States to not “remain by our side” in the Ukraine-Russia war.

“I’ve decided to open the strategic debate on the protection by our deterrence of our allies on the European continent,” he said in a live broadcast on his official social media channels, during which he stressed the need for Europe to continue assisting Ukraine and strengthen its own defense.

“Our nuclear deterrence protects us, it is complete, sovereign, French from end to end,” Macron said of France’s nuclear arsenal. “This protects us much more than many of our neighbors.”

“Whatever happens, the decision has always remained and will remain in the hands of the president of the Republic, commander of the military,” Macron added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Macron of posing a direct threat to Russia with his rhetoric.

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army​

www.politico.eu

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

First things first. To Lavrov I say, fuck off. If you don't want European nations to take actions to defend themselves against Russian aggression stop being a threat to them.

Secondly, wow. I think it's fair to say this would be the first Euro-centric military alliance since WWII, one that doesn't include the US. Raising the question, what will be the impact of trump turning the US in to an unreliable military ally as well as an unreliable trading partner?

We ‘must act’: Europe retaliates against Trump’s 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports​

 
Last edited:
berg80 said:

France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

France will consider extending the protection of its nuclear arsenal to its allies, French President Emmanuel Macron said Wednesday, while warning that Europe needs to be ready for the United States to not “remain by our side” in the Ukraine-Russia war.

“I’ve decided to open the strategic debate on the protection by our deterrence of our allies on the European continent,” he said in a live broadcast on his official social media channels, during which he stressed the need for Europe to continue assisting Ukraine and strengthen its own defense.

“Our nuclear deterrence protects us, it is complete, sovereign, French from end to end,” Macron said of France’s nuclear arsenal. “This protects us much more than many of our neighbors.”

“Whatever happens, the decision has always remained and will remain in the hands of the president of the Republic, commander of the military,” Macron added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Macron of posing a direct threat to Russia with his rhetoric.

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army​

www.politico.eu

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

First things first. To Lavrov I say, fuck off. If you don't want European nations to take actions to defend themselves against Russian aggression stop being a threat to them.

Secondly, wow. I think it's fair to say this would be the first Euro-centric military alliance since WWII, one that doesn't include the US. Raising the question, what will be the impact of trump turning the US in to an unreliable military ally as well as an unreliable trading partner?

We ‘must act’: Europe retaliates against Trump’s 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports​

Click to expand...
I say good. Let Europe spend it's own money defending itself.
 
berg80 said:
A predictably simple minded, short sighted reply. SOP for trumples.
Click to expand...
No, Europe has been able to profit from the American taxpayers for far too long.

Sponging off of the US was great, it allowed them to pursue all sorts of welfare state projects, that WE paid for.

You go live there, you seem to like being a con man.
 
berg80 said:

France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.
Click to expand...
This proposal and "idea" will die the day e.g. Le Pen becomes French President.

France - especially it's nationalists, has it's own agenda - just like any other country.

Imagine an independent/sovereign State of Wyoming or Oklahoma offering it's nuke protection to e.g. the sovereign State of California - and then California getting into a military confrontation with a nuclear possessing Texas, who attacks New Mexico and states that New Mexico has no right to exist.........

The sad fact is; There is NO European union, aside from a common currency and overpaid/useless EU parliamentarians.

And Putin knows this very well.
 
westwall said:
I say good. Let Europe spend it's own money defending itself.
Click to expand...

Europe has ALWAYS spend its own money, and a LOT of it went to American arms manufacturers. That's over. Canada is cancelling it's purchases of US made weapons, and our commitment to buy F35 fighter jets - we've already spent billions on these planes, which we're prepared to flush:

Tariff Fight Raises Questions About Canada's F-35, P-8 Purchases

Canada says it's sticking with buying F-35s but there are calls to consider alternatives like the Saab Gripen.
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com

www.espritdecorps.ca

Maybe It’s time for Canada to Dump the F-35? — espritdecorps

By Tim Ryan Canada’s planned purchase of the Lockheed Martin stealth fighter jet, the F-35, could be headed for some turbulence. Questions are being asked around official Ottawa about why Canadian taxpayers should spend $19 billion on a product from a country whose president has threatened to eco
www.espritdecorps.ca www.espritdecorps.ca

Why would we buy military equipment from someone who has declared us an "enemy".
 
Dragonlady said:
Europe has ALWAYS spend its own money, and a LOT of it went to American arms manufacturers. That's over. Canada is cancelling it's purchases of US made weapons, and our commitment to buy F35 fighter jets - we've already spent billions on these planes, which we're prepared to flush:

Tariff Fight Raises Questions About Canada's F-35, P-8 Purchases

Canada says it's sticking with buying F-35s but there are calls to consider alternatives like the Saab Gripen.
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com

www.espritdecorps.ca

Maybe It’s time for Canada to Dump the F-35? — espritdecorps

By Tim Ryan Canada’s planned purchase of the Lockheed Martin stealth fighter jet, the F-35, could be headed for some turbulence. Questions are being asked around official Ottawa about why Canadian taxpayers should spend $19 billion on a product from a country whose president has threatened to eco
www.espritdecorps.ca www.espritdecorps.ca

Why would we buy military equipment from someone who has declared us an "enemy".
Click to expand...
No, it hasn't. It has relied on the US for its protection since WWII.
 
berg80 said:

France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

France will consider extending the protection of its nuclear arsenal to its allies, French President Emmanuel Macron said Wednesday, while warning that Europe needs to be ready for the United States to not “remain by our side” in the Ukraine-Russia war.

“I’ve decided to open the strategic debate on the protection by our deterrence of our allies on the European continent,” he said in a live broadcast on his official social media channels, during which he stressed the need for Europe to continue assisting Ukraine and strengthen its own defense.

“Our nuclear deterrence protects us, it is complete, sovereign, French from end to end,” Macron said of France’s nuclear arsenal. “This protects us much more than many of our neighbors.”

“Whatever happens, the decision has always remained and will remain in the hands of the president of the Republic, commander of the military,” Macron added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Macron of posing a direct threat to Russia with his rhetoric.

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army​

www.politico.eu

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

First things first. To Lavrov I say, fuck off. If you don't want European nations to take actions to defend themselves against Russian aggression stop being a threat to them.

Secondly, wow. I think it's fair to say this would be the first Euro-centric military alliance since WWII, one that doesn't include the US. Raising the question, what will be the impact of trump turning the US in to an unreliable military ally as well as an unreliable trading partner?

We ‘must act’: Europe retaliates against Trump’s 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports​

Click to expand...
Europe to carry its own weight finally?

Excellent job, President Trump. Your plan is working flawlessly.
 
berg80 said:

France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

France will consider extending the protection of its nuclear arsenal to its allies, French President Emmanuel Macron said Wednesday, while warning that Europe needs to be ready for the United States to not “remain by our side” in the Ukraine-Russia war.

“I’ve decided to open the strategic debate on the protection by our deterrence of our allies on the European continent,” he said in a live broadcast on his official social media channels, during which he stressed the need for Europe to continue assisting Ukraine and strengthen its own defense.

“Our nuclear deterrence protects us, it is complete, sovereign, French from end to end,” Macron said of France’s nuclear arsenal. “This protects us much more than many of our neighbors.”

“Whatever happens, the decision has always remained and will remain in the hands of the president of the Republic, commander of the military,” Macron added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Macron of posing a direct threat to Russia with his rhetoric.

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army​

www.politico.eu

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

First things first. To Lavrov I say, fuck off. If you don't want European nations to take actions to defend themselves against Russian aggression stop being a threat to them.

Secondly, wow. I think it's fair to say this would be the first Euro-centric military alliance since WWII, one that doesn't include the US. Raising the question, what will be the impact of trump turning the US in to an unreliable military ally as well as an unreliable trading partner?

We ‘must act’: Europe retaliates against Trump’s 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports​

Click to expand...
Why is it always France at the begining of World Wars?
 
berg80 said:
Would you rather have the US align itself with Europe or Russia, Hungary, China, and Iran?
Click to expand...
I'd rather have the US stand alone. We are one of three nations that can.
 
Kruska said:
Imagine an independent/sovereign State of Wyoming or Oklahoma offering it's nuke protection to e.g. the sovereign State of California - and then California getting into a military confrontation with a nuclear possessing Texas, who attacks New Mexico and states that New Mexico has no right to exist.........
Click to expand...
How is engaging in fantastical hypotheticals relevant to the conversation?

Yesterday I heard a Canadian business reporter speak about the unseen affects of what Dotard is doing. Like Canadians just not buying American products, not going on vacation to the US, businesses looking for more reliable countries to do business with. Now some of this will go away once the Orange Menace is just a horrific memory but when you think about the citizenry of all countries doing this you begin to understand the magnitude of what the idiot trump has put in motion.
 
berg80 said:
How is engaging in fantastical hypotheticals relevant to the conversation?

Yesterday I heard a Canadian business reporter speak about the unseen affects of what Dotard is doing. Like Canadians just not buying American products, not going on vacation to the US, businesses looking for more reliable countries to do business with. Now some of this will go away once the Orange Menace is just a horrific memory but when you think about the citizenry of all countries doing this you begin to understand the magnitude of what the idiot trump has put in motion.
Click to expand...

Probably but that is more in response to Canada's decision to enact tariffs against the US on things like food.
 
berg80 said:

France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

France will consider extending the protection of its nuclear arsenal to its allies, French President Emmanuel Macron said Wednesday, while warning that Europe needs to be ready for the United States to not “remain by our side” in the Ukraine-Russia war.

“I’ve decided to open the strategic debate on the protection by our deterrence of our allies on the European continent,” he said in a live broadcast on his official social media channels, during which he stressed the need for Europe to continue assisting Ukraine and strengthen its own defense.

“Our nuclear deterrence protects us, it is complete, sovereign, French from end to end,” Macron said of France’s nuclear arsenal. “This protects us much more than many of our neighbors.”

“Whatever happens, the decision has always remained and will remain in the hands of the president of the Republic, commander of the military,” Macron added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Macron of posing a direct threat to Russia with his rhetoric.

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army​

www.politico.eu

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

First things first. To Lavrov I say, fuck off. If you don't want European nations to take actions to defend themselves against Russian aggression stop being a threat to them.

Secondly, wow. I think it's fair to say this would be the first Euro-centric military alliance since WWII, one that doesn't include the US. Raising the question, what will be the impact of trump turning the US in to an unreliable military ally as well as an unreliable trading partner?

We ‘must act’: Europe retaliates against Trump’s 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports​

Click to expand...
Is the US still a superpower if China takes the lead in aid and develop in the 3rd world and Europe doesn't need or want the US to defend it? We already vote with Russia (and Iran and North Korea). At least we'll make Russia happy when we leave NATO.
 
berg80 said:

France to consider protecting European allies with its nuclear arsenal, Macron says​

France will consider extending the protection of its nuclear arsenal to its allies, French President Emmanuel Macron said Wednesday, while warning that Europe needs to be ready for the United States to not “remain by our side” in the Ukraine-Russia war.

“I’ve decided to open the strategic debate on the protection by our deterrence of our allies on the European continent,” he said in a live broadcast on his official social media channels, during which he stressed the need for Europe to continue assisting Ukraine and strengthen its own defense.

“Our nuclear deterrence protects us, it is complete, sovereign, French from end to end,” Macron said of France’s nuclear arsenal. “This protects us much more than many of our neighbors.”

“Whatever happens, the decision has always remained and will remain in the hands of the president of the Republic, commander of the military,” Macron added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Macron of posing a direct threat to Russia with his rhetoric.

If France decides to do this it may help prevent the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons in Europe as nations seek their own Russian deterrent by acquiring nukes. A ripple effect of trump's isolationism.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army​

www.politico.eu

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

First things first. To Lavrov I say, fuck off. If you don't want European nations to take actions to defend themselves against Russian aggression stop being a threat to them.

Secondly, wow. I think it's fair to say this would be the first Euro-centric military alliance since WWII, one that doesn't include the US. Raising the question, what will be the impact of trump turning the US in to an unreliable military ally as well as an unreliable trading partner?

We ‘must act’: Europe retaliates against Trump’s 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports​

Click to expand...
The Europeans should be defending themselves. So, this is a good thing.
 
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