Zone1 This is why I don't go to church

[K9Buck]

Mind you, I was a Catholic for 50 years before I decided to leave that organization, as I detailed in another thread.

I had never been to another church before visiting a local congregation a number of months ago. Unfortunately, I was battling diverticulitis at the time and only stayed about 30 minutes but what I heard was fine.

I recently was recommended to visit another Christian church that is growing into something big. I went there yesterday. The facility is really nice. The people were super friendly. They have a live band to open the service and they were outstanding! Thereafter there was a brief video about donating to the church, which was fine because they obviously need some financial support to function. And then the preacher came out. I was pleased to see that there was no fanfare about him appearing to us onstage. After all, he's just a person. He then said that he welcomes all first-time visitors and he said that he knows they're "checking us out" and then he said "But we're checking you out too" and went on to explain that, if you're going to call their church your home, you have to be a good representation of Christ.

I got up and walked out.

Luke 5:29-32 esv
29And Levi made him a great feast in his house, and there was a large company of tax collectors and others reclining at table with them. 30And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

 

[Woodznutz]

He probably shouldn't have phrased it that way, at that time. That said, the whole point of the church is growing into the same spiritual nature of Jesus Christ.

 

[K9Buck]

Maybe he should have said "If you are struggling with sin, you have come to the right place because we ALL struggle with sin. We want to support your walk with and to Christ. As Jesus said, he came not for the righteous but for sinners like us".

I'm just thankful that the preacher said that early in his sermon so that I could go on with my day and get out of there before the traffic.

 

[Cougarbear]

Maybe he should have said "If you are struggling with sin, you have come to the right place because we ALL struggle with sin. We want to support your walk with and to Christ. As Jesus said, he came not for the righteous but for sinners like us".

I'm just thankful that the preacher said that early in his sermon so that I could go on with my day and get out of there before the traffic.

Maybe he clarified his statement and the message ended up as you would like. It's stupid and rude to do what you did. There is no wrong in saying be like the Savior and do what Jesus would do. It's much easier to pull a rope than push it. You have to develop faith in Christ before you can help others to do the same. You are so mixed up and full of your own self pride.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Maybe he should have said "If you are struggling with sin, you have come to the right place because we ALL struggle with sin. We want to support your walk with and to Christ. As Jesus said, he came not for the righteous but for sinners like us".

I'm just thankful that the preacher said that early in his sermon so that I could go on with my day and get out of there before the traffic.

Based on your posting History you would not be a good addition to any Church.

 

[Cougarbear]

Based on your posting History you would not be a good addition to any Church.

We agree with something!

 

[SweetSue92]

Maybe he should have said "If you are struggling with sin, you have come to the right place because we ALL struggle with sin. We want to support your walk with and to Christ. As Jesus said, he came not for the righteous but for sinners like us".

I'm just thankful that the preacher said that early in his sermon so that I could go on with my day and get out of there before the traffic.

It would be one thing if you were telling us you are actively seeking a church, visited this one and it wasn't for you. Fine. But you walked out and what? Won't go to another?

No.

Churches are not meant to be filled with people you think are perfectly sanctified and doing just as they should. They will sometimes irritate, frustrate and anger you. And you will have to deal with that.

Dealing with that in a Christ-like manner is WHAT sanctifies you. Not just walking away.

 

[K9Buck]

It would be one thing if you were telling us you are actively seeking a church, visited this one and it wasn't for you. Fine. But you walked out and what? Won't go to another?

No.

Churches are not meant to be filled with people you think are perfectly sanctified and doing just as they should. They will sometimes irritate, frustrate and anger you. And you will have to deal with that.

Dealing with that in a Christ-like manner is WHAT sanctifies you. Not just walking away.

I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom in your statement. However, I prefer to be in a church where the head pastor welcomes everybody, especially sinners like me.

 

[K9Buck]

Maybe he clarified his statement and the message ended up as you would like. It's stupid and rude to do what you did. There is no wrong in saying be like the Savior and do what Jesus would do. It's much easier to pull a rope than push it. You have to develop faith in Christ before you can help others to do the same. You are so mixed up and full of your own self pride.

So you condemn me.

 

[Meriweather]

You have to develop faith in Christ before you can help others to do the same. You are so mixed up and full of your own self pride.

It could be something deeper. I find myself thinking of St. Teresa of Avila, who points out points out that Church can only take us so far.

A person walks out of his childhood faith, walks out of discussions, walks out of yet another church. This opens up the possibility someone may be seeking.

The only clue is an existence that if there is a hell, it is only temporary. That is not so much pride as wishful thinking, and pride is not often a trait in wistful people. I find myself wondering, if someone does not want a permanent hell, what are other desires?

The "So you condemn me" is interesting coming from a person that exudes condemnation. Deep things are going on here.

 

[Blues Man]

So you condemn me.

You condemn yourself.

Why do you need the acceptance of some priest? He is just a man nothing more. People assign some sort of divine authority to the clergy out of some sort of self judgement.

Judge your life by your own actions not the opinion of some other man.

 

[beautress]

I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom in your statement. However, I prefer to be in a church where the head pastor welcomes everybody, especially sinners like me.

My husband occasionally was transferred, and we were Presbyterians wherever we went. When we were transferred to Oregon for 5 years, where his company's main office was, our church there was in a medium small town. On youth Sunday one time, the minister's sermon was directed at them, and taught them this sentence: "Please be patient with me because God hasn't finished with me yet." Sometimes a political board attracts righteous judges quick to disparage others, because politics often require a "do it now or never" attitude in order to appease a majority in any given town or state. As believers, we know that Christ returned to a roomful of mourning apostles to assure them he rose from the dead, which accounts for his empty tomb two women entered to be greeted by an Angel who informed them that he had risen, and that he was not there. When they told the Apostles he was alive, I'm not sure it sunk in, but hours later, there he was, and he gave them the great commission to tell his story and spread the things he taught them as he was the Word. God hadn't finished with them yet, but Christ told them they would have his other helper would be with him, who was the Holy Spirit. After he commissioned them to go forth into the world and teach his Word as he taught them, he ascended into Heaven. Thomas had already felt his nail-scarred hands because like one of our states is called the "Show Me" state, he had to have proof, which the risen Lord Christ gave him. God had not finished with his disciples, and most if not all were eventually put to death for teaching the truths Christ had preached using Old Testament passages frequently as his Father guided him due to his constant prayers for God's help. Even today, we are led to worship God who is our friend, and we know him through the teachings of Christ, all of which were in accord with the Laws of Moses except one, which is told in John 3: 16 in the New Testament to give mankind the assurance of his wondrous Love for His Father's creation, man and woman. In Christ, your sins are forgiven if you believe in him and learn his Word to show you the way, the truth, and the light. I'm not a preacher, I just love our Heavenly Father, as Jesus taught us to pray: "Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Trust God who first loves you, long before you were old enough to wrap your mind around such as wondrous love as God's love. Are we perfect? Only trust Him. He never lies. And he didn't say it would be easy, just the opposite. Love, beautress. Keep reading his word, do your best, and you will never have to worry about it as you are forgiven when you trust in God. So be it.

 

[Cougarbear]

So you condemn me.

I condemn your self pride. You will find yourself in Christ if you leave your pride behind. It's all about behavior. Not you personally.

 

[SweetSue92]

I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom in your statement. However, I prefer to be in a church where the head pastor welcomes everybody, especially sinners like me.

I don't disagree with that. But also don't give up the search. It is not easy in 21st century America to find a church that holds to the Bible and yet is not unnecessarily legalistic, but it is possible. We went to **I can't even count** how many churches when we finally found ours years and years ago. It's our ride or die church and like long marriages, the road is not always easy. But that is also the point.

 

[Cougarbear]

I don't disagree with that. But also don't give up the search. It is not easy in 21st century America to find a church that holds to the Bible and yet is not unnecessarily legalistic, but it is possible. We went to **I can't even count** how many churches when we finally found ours years and years ago. It's our ride or die church and like long marriages, the road is not always easy. But that is also the point.

Interesting. I see this a lot with mainstream Christians where they are looking for a church that fits their wants and needs rather than studying the doctrines of those churches and asking Father in Heaven, in the name of Jesus Christ if that's the church that the Godhead sanction and give authority to perform the saving ordinances. And, receive this truth from the Holy Ghost.

 

[zaangalewa]

Mind you, I was a Catholic for 50 years before I decided to leave that organization, as I detailed in another thread.

I had never been to another church before visiting a local congregation a number of months ago. Unfortunately, I was battling diverticulitis at the time and only stayed about 30 minutes but what I heard was fine.

I recently was recommended to visit another Christian church that is growing into something big. I went there yesterday. The facility is really nice. The people were super friendly. They have a live band to open the service and they were outstanding! Thereafter there was a brief video about donating to the church, which was fine because they obviously need some financial support to function. And then the preacher came out. I was pleased to see that there was no fanfare about him appearing to us onstage. After all, he's just a person. He then said that he welcomes all first-time visitors and he said that he knows they're "checking us out" and then he said "But we're checking you out too" and went on to explain that, if you're going to call their church your home, you have to be a good representation of Christ.

I got up and walked out.

Luke 5:29-32 esv
29And Levi made him a great feast in his house, and there was a large company of tax collectors and others reclining at table with them. 30And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

And I thought you don't go to church because no one pushes your wheel chair.

 

[zaangalewa]

I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom in your statement. However, I prefer to be in a church where the head pastor welcomes everybody, especially sinners like me.

"Welcome, old fucking sinner?" ... Sorry - but this was very amusing for me now. I on my own prefer to come and to go like a ghost - and I feel very familiar with places which have a special "aura" - perhaps because of the prayers of all the people over hundreds of years and all the candles they had lightened or because on whatever other reason. Some places feel "special" - and I do not know why it is in this way. And I am really so stupid to speak with Jesus and Saints in front of whatever form of artificial object and they give me another feeling and answer depending on whatever reason. Everything is the same and universal - but also everything is very special and individual. So perhaps you are able to smile or to laugh about me now.

 

[zaangalewa]

It could be something deeper. I find myself thinking of St. Teresa of Avila, who points out points out that Church can only take us so far.

A person walks out of his childhood faith, walks out of discussions, walks out of yet another church. This opens up the possibility someone may be seeking.

The only clue is an existence that if there is a hell, it is only temporary. That is not so much pride as wishful thinking, and pride is not often a trait in wistful people. I find myself wondering, if someone does not want a permanent hell, what are other desires?

The "So you condemn me" is interesting coming from a person that exudes condemnation. Deep things are going on here.

By the way:

The great mystic Teresa of Avila once complained in prayer about all the many tribulations and adversities she had to suffer. "This is how I treat my friends," the Lord answered her. Teresa replied: "That is why you have so few."

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom in your statement. However, I prefer to be in a church where the head pastor welcomes everybody, especially sinners like me.

I had to give you a "thumbs down" because you are NOT a "sinner" in the sense that you are "willfully living in a STATE of sin" but are making the effort to follow Christ as He intends.

The Church isn't the place for this LIVING IN A STATE OF SIN. God DOESNT ACCEPT you as you are. That's what the pastor clumsily said.

The disciples Christ called and ate with were NOT "sinners" as in LIVING IN SIN. Jesus called them. But the world hadn't yet seen in them what Christ saw.

 

[Meriweather]

By the way:

The great mystic Teresa of Avila once complained in prayer about all the many tribulations and adversities she had to suffer. "This is how I treat my friends," the Lord answered her. Teresa replied: "That is why you have so few."

Yes, I love that account! But I heard that the prayer was being said when her carriage overturned on a bridge and she was tossed into a river/creek. Never fails to bring a smile.