This is us, and it's everybody else too...

[Mr.Fitnah]

It's true, though, that the deficit needs to be addressed, and soon. I'm sure people in the know lose sleep over how to deal with it especially with unemployment continuing to rise which creates even more of a burden on existing government social programs and depletes the treasury even further.

But you're right about the blame game, which happens regarding all aspects of the tanking economy. Fixing the blame doesn't solve the problem, and I don't ever see the Republicans (or non-Republicans, whatever they're calling themselves these days) offering up any workable solutions either. If everything was stagnant, sure, we could just say STOP THE WORLD WHILE WE PERFORM SURGERY, but businesses continue to fold, money and credit continues to be tight, and reliance on the federal government for help also continues as a result.

Anybody?

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

They want control.

The left doesn't see it that way they don't see anything as far as I can tell.

 

[Intense]

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

They want control.

The left doesn't see it that way they don't see anything as far as I can tell.

The blind leading the blind.

 

[HUGGY]

It's true, though, that the deficit needs to be addressed, and soon. I'm sure people in the know lose sleep over how to deal with it especially with unemployment continuing to rise which creates even more of a burden on existing government social programs and depletes the treasury even further.

But you're right about the blame game, which happens regarding all aspects of the tanking economy. Fixing the blame doesn't solve the problem, and I don't ever see the Republicans (or non-Republicans, whatever they're calling themselves these days) offering up any workable solutions either. If everything was stagnant, sure, we could just say STOP THE WORLD WHILE WE PERFORM SURGERY, but businesses continue to fold, money and credit continues to be tight, and reliance on the federal government for help also continues as a result.

Anybody?

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

They want control.

Everone wants control. What is a crime is how easily you give yours up to traitors and subversives.

 

[Intense]

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

They want control.

Everone wants control. What is a crime is how easily you give yours up to traitors and subversives.

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

 

[HUGGY]

They want control.

Everone wants control. What is a crime is how easily you give yours up to traitors and subversives.

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

Nice words. Do you mean freedom for all and justice for all americans or "just us" neo cons?

 

[DiveCon]

Everone wants control. What is a crime is how easily you give yours up to traitors and subversives.

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

Nice words. Do you mean freedom for all and justice for all americans or "just us" neo cons?

you need to get educated as to what a neocon is first

 

[HUGGY]

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

Nice words. Do you mean freedom for all and justice for all americans or "just us" neo cons?

you need to get educated as to what a neocon is first

You need to stop trying to tell me what I think.

 

[Intense]

Everone wants control. What is a crime is how easily you give yours up to traitors and subversives.

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

Nice words. Do you mean freedom for all and justice for all americans or "just us" neo cons?

I won't answer that until I get a Signed Iron Clad Contract from You stating that I Remain on the List!!!! .... Good. All People Huggy. Equal Justice for All under the Law. Rule of Law Applies.

Sea Hawks throw like little girls!!!!

 

[DiveCon]

Nice words. Do you mean freedom for all and justice for all americans or "just us" neo cons?

you need to get educated as to what a neocon is first

You need to stop trying to tell me what I think.

i didnt try and tell you what you THINK
i told you what you have shown you don't KNOW

 

[HUGGY]

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

Nice words. Do you mean freedom for all and justice for all americans or "just us" neo cons?

I won't answer that until I get a Signed Iron Clad Contract from You stating that I Remain on the List!!!! .... Good. All People Huggy. Equal Justice for All under the Law. Rule of Law Applies.

Sea Hawks throw like little girls!!!!

I hate to keep correcting you but Sea Hawks throw like little girls!!!! is wrong. Matt Hasselbeck is an outstanding quarterback. Our O line blocks like little girls.

I foresee no reason to remove you from the list.



I, Huggy do solomly swear to keep "Intense" if thats his real name on the "list".

Signed ___________ Huggy AKA Sean Corey ....Dated ____today

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't think the administration IS trying to cover anything up. If you go to C-Span's main page (C-Span.org), you'll see everything they cover on all three of their channels, and there are a lot of hearings that don't get into the news on a regular basis. Of course not everything that goes on behind closed doors is open to the public, but you can be sure that when the upper echelon finally reaches these hearings, they've done their homework, so it isn't as though nothing is being done.

As far as the "transparency" promise, I also think this administration is much more open than previous ones, and they try to get things up on the Internet, but that isn't an easy overnight process either.

The current stories of the WH trying to suppress Fox News is, I believe, a creation of the media. It gives them something to yak about every day, because there is such strong competition among them. That said, I also think it's perfectly understandable that Fox News is hardly a fave of Obama, given the wild allegations of people like Glenn Beck. Hell, even O'Reilly looks saintly by comparison. It stands to reason that you can't grind up a person and then someday expect his devotion.

We will just have to disagree. I think the transparency PROMISED by candidate Obama quickly disappeared when he first met criticism as President. I disagree that this administration is any more open or even as open as the previous one. At least 'secret meetings' in the Bush administration that resulted in public policy, regulation, law etc. were bipartisan affairs.

See Willow's thread on Fox News for very clear evidence that the Obama Administration has actively attempted to isolate, marginalize, and even shut down Fox News which is the only widely viewed media source that is reporting on all aspects of the current Congress and the Obama Administration.

No media should be seeking devotion from government. Without a free and unfettered press, history is a reliable guage that we can soon expect to have no freedoms at all.

Blind faith is in part what this thread is all about is it not? An inability to see, recognize, or admit truth that is contrary to what we choose to believe? There are those of us who think that is extremely dangerous when it comes to government action that will affect every part of our lives now and into our childrens' and grandchildrens' futures.

(And I am a C-span junkie.)

I still don't think there is any intent to shut out Fox News. I do believe that the people surrounding Obama try to insulate him from Fox's unabashed bashing of him, and regardless how much valid reporting they might do, you must admit, they are the champions of that. Murdoch admits that Fox did everything in its power to prop up the Bush administration, which gave Fox its reputation of being the most biased news channel to begin with.

 

[MaggieMae]

YouTube - 7 Lies In Under 2 Minutes

Using stuff said during his campaign is ignorant. Events (and shit) happens once the nominee actually gets into office which literally make it impossible to keep certain campaign promises, and Obama most certainly isn't the first.

 

[MaggieMae]

YouTube - 7 Lies In Under 2 Minutes

It was these very statements that elected Obama. I don't know whether he meant them at the time or not or whether they were simply empty rhetoric dreamed up by Axelrod or some other of his speech writers. But he obviously threw all or most out the window as soon as they began interfering with his adopted agenda as President.

And here we have a dilemma of millions of Americans who voted for him on the strength of statements like that and now are in the position of having to either defend him or admit they were fools to believe him.

And Maggie's thesis with this thread is definitely a factor in that I think.

I only got as far as "No More Secrets," but Obama soon found out that every word he uttered was scrutinized, picked apart and used as fodder for rightwing screwballs to embellish and project inaccurate meanings into. The attacks were instantaneous, and by the time he took the oath of office, the economy was in the toilet and perhaps he had a little more on his mind than making sure that all the news channels had the capability of filming in real time all the conferences leading up to putting new bills on the respective floor agendas.

He was widely criticized when he TRIED to limit the number of lobbyists because of course they used the first amendment argument. So now they're back. But I knew he would get in trouble over that. Personally, a new president NEEDS the expertise of lobbyists. He just doesn't need to kow to their every demand or invite them to the dinner table. But they offer many bullet points to then further discuss with staff on whatever the issue is.

I could go on and on, but in a nutshell, this guy has NOT been given a fair shake. He was expected to get ALL the things done IMMEDIATELY that he promised, or, when he didn't or couldn't, the media and the public went ballistic. And it still is. Take Afghanistan and all the noise about Obama changing his strategy from what he said last March. Well dammit, Afghanistan now has an extremely unstable government, which he didn't know would be the case last March. Shit happens; things change. All we have to do is sit here and read about everything going on; those guys have to DO IT. And there's still only 24 hours a day for all of us.

 

[Intense]

I don't think the administration IS trying to cover anything up. If you go to C-Span's main page (C-Span.org), you'll see everything they cover on all three of their channels, and there are a lot of hearings that don't get into the news on a regular basis. Of course not everything that goes on behind closed doors is open to the public, but you can be sure that when the upper echelon finally reaches these hearings, they've done their homework, so it isn't as though nothing is being done.

As far as the "transparency" promise, I also think this administration is much more open than previous ones, and they try to get things up on the Internet, but that isn't an easy overnight process either.

The current stories of the WH trying to suppress Fox News is, I believe, a creation of the media. It gives them something to yak about every day, because there is such strong competition among them. That said, I also think it's perfectly understandable that Fox News is hardly a fave of Obama, given the wild allegations of people like Glenn Beck. Hell, even O'Reilly looks saintly by comparison. It stands to reason that you can't grind up a person and then someday expect his devotion.

We will just have to disagree. I think the transparency PROMISED by candidate Obama quickly disappeared when he first met criticism as President. I disagree that this administration is any more open or even as open as the previous one. At least 'secret meetings' in the Bush administration that resulted in public policy, regulation, law etc. were bipartisan affairs.

See Willow's thread on Fox News for very clear evidence that the Obama Administration has actively attempted to isolate, marginalize, and even shut down Fox News which is the only widely viewed media source that is reporting on all aspects of the current Congress and the Obama Administration.

No media should be seeking devotion from government. Without a free and unfettered press, history is a reliable guage that we can soon expect to have no freedoms at all.

Blind faith is in part what this thread is all about is it not? An inability to see, recognize, or admit truth that is contrary to what we choose to believe? There are those of us who think that is extremely dangerous when it comes to government action that will affect every part of our lives now and into our childrens' and grandchildrens' futures.

(And I am a C-span junkie.)

I still don't think there is any intent to shut out Fox News. I do believe that the people surrounding Obama try to insulate him from Fox's unabashed bashing of him, and regardless how much valid reporting they might do, you must admit, they are the champions of that. Murdoch admits that Fox did everything in its power to prop up the Bush administration, which gave Fox its reputation of being the most biased news channel to begin with.

Democratic Spin Control Did that Maggie. The only thing FOX has close to Madden, and Olberman is Beck, and he is a recent transplant.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's true, though, that the deficit needs to be addressed, and soon. I'm sure people in the know lose sleep over how to deal with it especially with unemployment continuing to rise which creates even more of a burden on existing government social programs and depletes the treasury even further.

But you're right about the blame game, which happens regarding all aspects of the tanking economy. Fixing the blame doesn't solve the problem, and I don't ever see the Republicans (or non-Republicans, whatever they're calling themselves these days) offering up any workable solutions either. If everything was stagnant, sure, we could just say STOP THE WORLD WHILE WE PERFORM SURGERY, but businesses continue to fold, money and credit continues to be tight, and reliance on the federal government for help also continues as a result.

Anybody?

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

Oh gee, thanks for your profound solutions.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's true, though, that the deficit needs to be addressed, and soon. I'm sure people in the know lose sleep over how to deal with it especially with unemployment continuing to rise which creates even more of a burden on existing government social programs and depletes the treasury even further.

But you're right about the blame game, which happens regarding all aspects of the tanking economy. Fixing the blame doesn't solve the problem, and I don't ever see the Republicans (or non-Republicans, whatever they're calling themselves these days) offering up any workable solutions either. If everything was stagnant, sure, we could just say STOP THE WORLD WHILE WE PERFORM SURGERY, but businesses continue to fold, money and credit continues to be tight, and reliance on the federal government for help also continues as a result.

Anybody?

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

They want control.

And Republicans don't? What will they do if the become the majority again next November? Do they have any plans? Please advise, as I can't find any anywhere.

 

[Intense]

YouTube - 7 Lies In Under 2 Minutes

It was these very statements that elected Obama. I don't know whether he meant them at the time or not or whether they were simply empty rhetoric dreamed up by Axelrod or some other of his speech writers. But he obviously threw all or most out the window as soon as they began interfering with his adopted agenda as President.

And here we have a dilemma of millions of Americans who voted for him on the strength of statements like that and now are in the position of having to either defend him or admit they were fools to believe him.

And Maggie's thesis with this thread is definitely a factor in that I think.

I only got as far as "No More Secrets," but Obama soon found out that every word he uttered was scrutinized, picked apart and used as fodder for rightwing screwballs to embellish and project inaccurate meanings into. The attacks were instantaneous, and by the time he took the oath of office, the economy was in the toilet and perhaps he had a little more on his mind than making sure that all the news channels had the capability of filming in real time all the conferences leading up to putting new bills on the respective floor agendas.

He was widely criticized when he TRIED to limit the number of lobbyists because of course they used the first amendment argument. So now they're back. But I knew he would get in trouble over that. Personally, a new president NEEDS the expertise of lobbyists. He just doesn't need to kow to their every demand or invite them to the dinner table. But they offer many bullet points to then further discuss with staff on whatever the issue is.

I could go on and on, but in a nutshell, this guy has NOT been given a fair shake. He was expected to get ALL the things done IMMEDIATELY that he promised, or, when he didn't or couldn't, the media and the public went ballistic. And it still is. Take Afghanistan and all the noise about Obama changing his strategy from what he said last March. Well dammit, Afghanistan now has an extremely unstable government, which he didn't know would be the case last March. Shit happens; things change. All we have to do is sit here and read about everything going on; those guys have to DO IT. And there's still only 24 hours a day for all of us.

Goes with the Territory. I bet He has more in common with Bush right now than You or I.

 

[Yurt]

"Why Fact Can't Compete With Belief"
(excerpt from The Atlantic, and appearing in THE WEEK, 10/09/09):

Why do people cling to an opinion even after they're presented with contradictory evidence? The easy answer, of course, is simply that people are irrational. But the way in which they're irrational is telling.

In a new study, Social Science Researchers have found that people employ 'motivated reasoning' to fend off any evidence that their strongly held beliefs are wrong. Many people feel that they ARE their opinions, and hate to lose arguments. As Vince Lombardi once said "Every time you lose, you die a little."

So when confronted with new, troubling information, ideologues selectively interpret the facts or use 'contorted logic' to make the conflicting evidence just go away.

In the study, even when presented with compelling, factual data from a trusted source, many subjects still found ways to dismiss it. In fact, researchers found that exposing people to contradictory information actually intensified their existing beliefs, making them more rigid and entrenched...Needless to say, the findings do not offer much hope of changing anyone else's mind with facts or rational discussion.

you believe fox news is more biased than other news.....

you are a case in point

 

[Intense]

If the Dems wanted to do something other than spend on new programs the could do it .
They have both houses and the WHitehouse.
All they want to do is spend borrow and spend tax and spend destroy the dollar and spend.
Whats the end game?

They want control.

And Republicans don't? What will they do if the become the majority again next November? Do they have any plans? Please advise, as I can't find any anywhere.

What We All need Maggie is constitutional Repair that Empowers Individual Liberty, and Self Reliance. Government needs to set the Structure and maintain the playing Field. People are not Property. That is part of what we stand for. The Fight against Tyranny has been going on from the start. It is the oldest war. We should challenge it where we find it, on both sides of the aisle, we should not be empowering it.

 

[MaggieMae]

They want control.

Everone wants control. What is a crime is how easily you give yours up to traitors and subversives.

I don't want control Huggy. I want Liberty and Justice. I want freedom to grow and live.

Are you in jail? Can you travel freely? Practice your religion without fear? Still got all your guns? Still got your voting rights? What's your problem? Who is going to take away your freedom? What "justice" do you want? I want to see Khalim Sheikh Mohammed put on trial and see JUSTICE done to the mastermind of the attacks of 911. That kind of "justice"??

I don't get this stupid argument. I'm as free as I was six decades ago and expect I will be for the next two or three. You've just bought into the ignorant fearmongering going on. Ohhh the statists and the oligarchy is gonna get us! Then it's Socialism! Next Communism!! Be afraid, be very afraid!! Nonsense. This has become truly pathetic.