This is murder

[DarkLion]

Do you have a problem with humans raising certain animals to serve as food?

I do, actually. But considering that some species raised for human consumption would have a dubious chance at best at surviving at all without humans, I can look the other way and fight what I see as bigger battles

 

[DarkLion]

Explain the logic please, you claim that animals are equal to humans, so if we are all equal, what difference is there in killing, according to you, it's all the same.

The lives may be equal in value, but the reasons for killing are not.

A lion killing wildebeest is fulfilling his role as apex predator which benefits the entire ecosystem, including the wildebeest species (though perhaps not the individual being devoured). I have no problem with this at all. It is part of a natural chain that must be preserved at all costs

A feral cat (to use as an example) is killing wildlife that is part of ecosystem which it is not a part of, in turn creating an imbalance that causes a cascade of consequences that extend far beyond the prey animals they are killing. I DO have a problem with this, as it creates problems that will sooner or later impact everything, including us

 

[Montrovant]

This was a very specific statement.

I'd rather hug a burmese python because they are on a greater level of caring than any of those I listed above.

I proved your point in advance.

Those that were killers were truly incapable of caring and I would rather hug a burmese python as compared to the cold blooded killers who sadistically killed versus a ball who only kills to feed.

And piss on that part of the human race that is that vile.

Assuming the killers you mention were all incapable of caring (not a requirement to become a killer, but possible) that still wouldn't make the python more capable of caring. It would put them on the same level as far as caring goes; none of them would be capable of caring.

Nothing wrong with despising those killers. I just don't see how that leads to deciding humanity is less than animals.

You don't understand at all do you?

Okey dokey.

You tell me why African grey wild caughts absolutely freak out when a black person enters a room?

Had to break it to one really lovely lady that her bird "Hope" would never ever love her and got her an amazon instead. The greys hate the blacks that stuck them to the trees. They feel anger. And hate.

How about a rosella crying for hours on end because I had to put down Gypsy's mate, Tramp? My personal babies. That almost killed me.

Don't tell me when one of the pack dies that the others don't know. I bred catahoulas. I have birthed their little souls.

Don't tell me they don't feel. Don't you dare tell me they don't care.

Maybe you don't like the words we use. But don't tell me they don't have emotions.

None of those are a python, which is the example you used.

I had a ball python as a pet years ago. I'm fairly confident it didn't have any emotional feelings about me one way or another.

Do you think all animals have human-like emotions?

Oh, and I have no idea what an African grey wild caughts is. I'm assuming there was just a typo. An African Grey caught in the wild, perhaps is what you meant?

 

[Kondor3]

 

[tinydancer]

Assuming the killers you mention were all incapable of caring (not a requirement to become a killer, but possible) that still wouldn't make the python more capable of caring. It would put them on the same level as far as caring goes; none of them would be capable of caring.

Nothing wrong with despising those killers. I just don't see how that leads to deciding humanity is less than animals.

You don't understand at all do you?

Okey dokey.

You tell me why African grey wild caughts absolutely freak out when a black person enters a room?

Had to break it to one really lovely lady that her bird "Hope" would never ever love her and got her an amazon instead. The greys hate the blacks that stuck them to the trees. They feel anger. And hate.

How about a rosella crying for hours on end because I had to put down Gypsy's mate, Tramp? My personal babies. That almost killed me.

Don't tell me when one of the pack dies that the others don't know. I bred catahoulas. I have birthed their little souls.

Don't tell me they don't feel. Don't you dare tell me they don't care.

Maybe you don't like the words we use. But don't tell me they don't have emotions.

None of those are a python, which is the example you used.

I had a ball python as a pet years ago. I'm fairly confident it didn't have any emotional feelings about me one way or another.

Do you think all animals have human-like emotions?

Oh, and I have no idea what an African grey wild caughts is. I'm assuming there was just a typo. An African Grey caught in the wild, perhaps is what you meant?

You are really hooked on the wrong aren't you now?

I only referenced balls in comparison to the truly emotionless killers above in my post.

Please don't try to twist my words.

Wild caughts is just another phrase. I used to transition wild caughts. This was the 80's. Before Mark started the Hagen breeding program.

I've worked with many a wild caught and have the scars to show it. Timnehs were the saddest.

I swear they knew that they were on my arm and not on a branch. All I could do and did was show them so much love that my arm and their future "person's arm" was not hostile but a good place.

I took a lotta hits man. If you know birds, the only way they can relate to you is with that beak.

I have a lot of scars. But they were worth it. My own companion feathered beastie and I had many rescues that never left the house but Phoenix was a yellow nape who was my friend.

I only had to give them all up when my husband was transferred to Saturn in Tennessee and I couldn't take them with me. Just about killed me.

 

[tinydancer]

PETA is so horrid. They really do believe that an animal is better off dead than to be with a human.

Their kill rate is outrageous.

 

[SuMar]

Where I live people shoot, hang, burn and poison dogs and cats.These are church going, family raising white people.

Typical church going hypocrites

They're are plenty of black thugs that attend their "Alleluia, get your business on" churches that are even bigger hypocrites.

 

[tinydancer]

Actually, I have a dog I love more than most people I know. She certainly means more to me than you do. Doesn't matter if you're a human and she's a dog...she's more important to me than you could ever be.

So what that means is this...if my dog and you were in a burning building and I had the power to save one of you...I would trample right over you getting to my dog. Yep, that's right, I'd save her life, and not yours.

So think about that when you say "it's a dog.' And here's my girl (she, not "it"). I suspect she's a lot better looking than you are, also.

Just a quick aside. What a beautiful crop.

Kudos to the vet. People who attempt to stop crops as "some crazy thing" don't understand why certain breeds need and must have crops.

Thanks, tinydancer. I'm glad you understand that. I would never had it done if it was in any way cruel. The pups (I have two dobermans) were playing and running around the house immediately when I got them home from having their ears cropped that morning. Didn't slow them down a bit. And yes, the vet I took them to is well-known for his expertise.

My parents well they said they bought him for me... I know the truth years later a boston terrier. Picture it.

I'm going to pull a Sophia here. 1962 my dad bought Cinnamon Saints Ben Beau for $200. You could have bought a chev impala for that price back then, but he bought this Boston Terrier.

AND AND out of all those fabulous show names omg they called hem Benny. I was stuck with Benny

Here come's the crop part of the story. Beautiful just beautiful and so proportioned to Benny's head. Perfectomundo. He was drop dead gorgeous.

I have absolutely stood fast for the crops. For heavens sake we spay and neuter don't we now? Talk about a surgery. I'd rather have the ear job.

Now I'm still willing to debate declawing but my Hershey (who I got from my husbands ex) was declawed but holy toledo she could still take out my Pyewacket (old orange and white rescue who made it to 21)with a right hook. Never slowed her down.

 

[SuMar]

Just a quick aside. What a beautiful crop.

Kudos to the vet. People who attempt to stop crops as "some crazy thing" don't understand why certain breeds need and must have crops.

Thanks, tinydancer. I'm glad you understand that. I would never had it done if it was in any way cruel. The pups (I have two dobermans) were playing and running around the house immediately when I got them home from having their ears cropped that morning. Didn't slow them down a bit. And yes, the vet I took them to is well-known for his expertise.

My parents well they said they bought him for me... I know the truth years later a boston terrier. Picture it.

I'm going to pull a Sophia here. 1962 my dad bought Cinnamon Saints Ben Beau for $200. You could have bought a chev impala for that price back then, but he bought this Boston Terrier.

AND AND out of all those fabulous show names omg they called hem Benny. I was stuck with Benny

Here come's the crop part of the story. Beautiful just beautiful and so proportioned to Benny's head. Perfectomundo. He was drop dead gorgeous.

I have absolutely stood fast for the crops. For heavens sake we spay and neuter don't we now? Talk about a surgery. I'd rather have the ear job.

Now I'm still willing to debate declawing but my Hershey (who I got from my husbands ex) was declawed but holy toledo she could still take out my Pyewacket (old orange and white rescue who made it to 21)with a right hook. Never slowed her down.

Boston Terriers are the best dogs, that and Dachshunds.

 

[tinydancer]

Thanks, tinydancer. I'm glad you understand that. I would never had it done if it was in any way cruel. The pups (I have two dobermans) were playing and running around the house immediately when I got them home from having their ears cropped that morning. Didn't slow them down a bit. And yes, the vet I took them to is well-known for his expertise.

My parents well they said they bought him for me... I know the truth years later a boston terrier. Picture it.

I'm going to pull a Sophia here. 1962 my dad bought Cinnamon Saints Ben Beau for $200. You could have bought a chev impala for that price back then, but he bought this Boston Terrier.

AND AND out of all those fabulous show names omg they called hem Benny. I was stuck with Benny

Here come's the crop part of the story. Beautiful just beautiful and so proportioned to Benny's head. Perfectomundo. He was drop dead gorgeous.

I have absolutely stood fast for the crops. For heavens sake we spay and neuter don't we now? Talk about a surgery. I'd rather have the ear job.

Now I'm still willing to debate declawing but my Hershey (who I got from my husbands ex) was declawed but holy toledo she could still take out my Pyewacket (old orange and white rescue who made it to 21)with a right hook. Never slowed her down.

Boston Terriers are the best dogs, that and Dachshunds.

I just adore small breeds. Their hearts outsize their small frames.

Where I've lived the last years though requires a bigger beastie.


Even my catahoulas could barely take the temps out here (Manitoba -40 C for a week at a time) but they had the worse problem of having webbed feet which would make them lock up at those temps.

New baby is this baby black and tan coonhound who will hopefully be able to rock on in these temps.

 

[Vox]

mini dachsunds are my favorite

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Just a quick aside. What a beautiful crop.

Kudos to the vet. People who attempt to stop crops as "some crazy thing" don't understand why certain breeds need and must have crops.

You don't need a vet to do a crop. Most groomers worth their salt know how to do one, and breeders who breed dobies or Danes should know how to do one as well.

And I agree, those who try to stop crops have no idea why some breeds need them

There are very very very very VERY few "working" dogs who "need" tails and/or ears cut off. Its stupid and often cruel to mindlessly obey some idiotic "standard".

A huge problem is that many people actually believe that "AKC" means something. It does not. Put the AKC (or other registry) papers on the floor for the puppy to pee on because all AKC means is that the overbred pup's name is written on a list of other overbred pups. THAT is what a "registry" is - a list of names.

I used to know a shit breeder who chopped off kittens tails on her kitchen table so she could sell them for big bucks as "bobcat hybrids". But, yes, there are plenty of really stupid people who bought her sickly little tabby kittens.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Declawing.

If you don't want an animal that has claws, you don't want a cat.

If you want a cat, clip their claws. Its that easy and I've been doing my cats' claws for 40 years or so.

Additionally, give them their own things to claw. If you're a meat eater, put a little meat yuk on their clawing post. Do that every few days, and they're addicted.

There are other things you can do but, bottom line is there is really no need to mutilate your cat. If you want a cat without claws, adopt from your local shelter. Lots of people ruin cats with declawing and then dump them at the humane society. If you adopt an already mutilated cat, you would not be screwing up another cat.

 

[Montrovant]

You don't understand at all do you?

Okey dokey.

You tell me why African grey wild caughts absolutely freak out when a black person enters a room?

Had to break it to one really lovely lady that her bird "Hope" would never ever love her and got her an amazon instead. The greys hate the blacks that stuck them to the trees. They feel anger. And hate.

How about a rosella crying for hours on end because I had to put down Gypsy's mate, Tramp? My personal babies. That almost killed me.

Don't tell me when one of the pack dies that the others don't know. I bred catahoulas. I have birthed their little souls.

Don't tell me they don't feel. Don't you dare tell me they don't care.

Maybe you don't like the words we use. But don't tell me they don't have emotions.

None of those are a python, which is the example you used.

I had a ball python as a pet years ago. I'm fairly confident it didn't have any emotional feelings about me one way or another.

Do you think all animals have human-like emotions?

Oh, and I have no idea what an African grey wild caughts is. I'm assuming there was just a typo. An African Grey caught in the wild, perhaps is what you meant?

You are really hooked on the wrong aren't you now?

I only referenced balls in comparison to the truly emotionless killers above in my post.

Please don't try to twist my words.

Wild caughts is just another phrase. I used to transition wild caughts. This was the 80's. Before Mark started the Hagen breeding program.

I've worked with many a wild caught and have the scars to show it. Timnehs were the saddest.

I swear they knew that they were on my arm and not on a branch. All I could do and did was show them so much love that my arm and their future "person's arm" was not hostile but a good place.

I took a lotta hits man. If you know birds, the only way they can relate to you is with that beak.

I have a lot of scars. But they were worth it. My own companion feathered beastie and I had many rescues that never left the house but Phoenix was a yellow nape who was my friend.

I only had to give them all up when my husband was transferred to Saturn in Tennessee and I couldn't take them with me. Just about killed me.

I understood the python comment was about the killers. I can separate different conversations, don't worry.

I, too, was discussing them separately. As far as the python comment, I was saying that I don't think they experience emotion, certainly not as humans do, so that however emotionless a human killer might be, the person will at most equal the snake. Your comment that pythons have more emotion than human killers was silly (although you may well have meant it to be).

With the birds, the phrase wild caughts is not one I'm familiar with. Because of that, saying African grey wild caughts sounded wrong to me. I still assume you are talking about the African Grey parrot, which is supposed to be one of if not the smartest bird from the little I've read.

I still wouldn't put birds, or that particular species of bird, on a par with humanity. Maybe ahead of certain individual humans, but not an animal species over my own.

And while some animals may experience human-like emotion, I think we have a tendency to assume that they do even if the evidence is far from concrete. Humans, in general, see human tendencies in other forms of life. Nearly all of us do it IMO, myself included.

 

[Noomi]

Declawing.

If you don't want an animal that has claws, you don't want a cat.

If you want a cat, clip their claws. Its that easy and I've been doing my cats' claws for 40 years or so.

Additionally, give them their own things to claw. If you're a meat eater, put a little meat yuk on their clawing post. Do that every few days, and they're addicted.

There are other things you can do but, bottom line is there is really no need to mutilate your cat. If you want a cat without claws, adopt from your local shelter. Lots of people ruin cats with declawing and then dump them at the humane society. If you adopt an already mutilated cat, you would not be screwing up another cat.

Some people declaw their cat and claim they had no choice because the cat scratches the furniture.

Don't own a cat if you don't want at least part of your furniture scratched. When I had my Gracie, she scratched everything, inside and outside. The claw marks in the table legs and the chewed chair legs, and the scratched sofa all remind me of her.

 

[DarkLion]

Don't own a cat if you don't want at least part of your furniture scratched. When I had my Gracie, she scratched everything, inside and outside. The claw marks in the table legs and the chewed chair legs, and the scratched sofa all remind me of her.

Indeed. Many of chair and table legs bear tooth marks from where my husky chewed on them. They remind me of her, so they are priceless.

 

[tinydancer]

Don't own a cat if you don't want at least part of your furniture scratched. When I had my Gracie, she scratched everything, inside and outside. The claw marks in the table legs and the chewed chair legs, and the scratched sofa all remind me of her.

Indeed. Many of chair and table legs bear tooth marks from where my husky chewed on them. They remind me of her, so they are priceless.

Guys guys guys my puppy is a black and tan coonhound at 16 weeks and all you can hear in the house is the theme from jaws ok?

Shes killing me. My cats hate me. But we will endure

Now back to real. I'm not sure on the declawing. Not happy with it but then I'm a mega cat person.

 

[tinydancer]

Declawing.

If you don't want an animal that has claws, you don't want a cat.

If you want a cat, clip their claws. Its that easy and I've been doing my cats' claws for 40 years or so.

Additionally, give them their own things to claw. If you're a meat eater, put a little meat yuk on their clawing post. Do that every few days, and they're addicted.

There are other things you can do but, bottom line is there is really no need to mutilate your cat. If you want a cat without claws, adopt from your local shelter. Lots of people ruin cats with declawing and then dump them at the humane society. If you adopt an already mutilated cat, you would not be screwing up another cat.

Some people declaw their cat and claim they had no choice because the cat scratches the furniture.

Don't own a cat if you don't want at least part of your furniture scratched. When I had my Gracie, she scratched everything, inside and outside. The claw marks in the table legs and the chewed chair legs, and the scratched sofa all remind me of her.

Sometimes a cat gets declawed because one person in the household demands it. I've known such a person.

And sometimes for the love of the beastie you submit to those demands. And it's still worth the journey in the end.

 

[Noomi]

Don't own a cat if you don't want at least part of your furniture scratched. When I had my Gracie, she scratched everything, inside and outside. The claw marks in the table legs and the chewed chair legs, and the scratched sofa all remind me of her.

Indeed. Many of chair and table legs bear tooth marks from where my husky chewed on them. They remind me of her, so they are priceless.

Guys guys guys my puppy is a black and tan coonhound at 16 weeks and all you can hear in the house is the theme from jaws ok?

Shes killing me. My cats hate me. But we will endure

Now back to real. I'm not sure on the declawing. Not happy with it but then I'm a mega cat person.

I love cat people. I am a big cat person, despite having three dogs. Not sure if we could add a cat to the family, it might get eaten...

 

[tinydancer]

Indeed. Many of chair and table legs bear tooth marks from where my husky chewed on them. They remind me of her, so they are priceless.

Guys guys guys my puppy is a black and tan coonhound at 16 weeks and all you can hear in the house is the theme from jaws ok?

Shes killing me. My cats hate me. But we will endure

Now back to real. I'm not sure on the declawing. Not happy with it but then I'm a mega cat person.

I love cat people. I am a big cat person, despite having three dogs. Not sure if we could add a cat to the family, it might get eaten...

My cats have always ruled. And in sort of a nice way. I had the walking sledgehammer breed Louisiana Catahoulas and my cats still ruled the house.

You're truly an aussie correct? My burmese adored my rosellas. Only an aussie would know them. Gypsy and Tramp. I swear you have the most beautiful birds on the planet.One day just one day I hope to see a flock of minor cresteds.

You are really blessed.